So why do people hate OSX here so much?

[QueBert]

hours? you running a 386 or something?

His exaggeration might not be too far off. While I've never removed everything bloatware related off a laptop. I have helped people remove some shit. And on a brand new i3 Dell it took about 15 minutes alone for McAfee to uninstall. And that was only 1 of about 20 things that needed to be removed. That's the only 1 I saw with my eyes, but he told me there were a piece softwares that took longer than McAfee to uninstall.

it's not a quick process.

 

[shortylickens]

His exaggeration might not be too far off. While I've never removed everything bloatware related off a laptop. I have helped people remove some shit. And on a brand new i3 Dell it took about 15 minutes alone for McAfee to uninstall. And that was only 1 of about 20 things that needed to be removed. That's the only 1 I saw with my eyes, but he told me there were a piece softwares that took longer than McAfee to uninstall.

it's not a quick process.

Yeah thats the one problem with Windows and especially on popular prebuilt machines. Too much crap installed by default and the average user puts all kinds of garbage on it. I've seen XP systems with 20 items on the task bar and 150 running processes. Fucking crazy trying to get it all off.

 

[oogabooga]

I don't hate OSX and probably a good number of people don't. This thread has been covered so many times ><

 

[alkemyst]

I think many people simply don't know how to setup OSX or just never bothered to learn the commands/shortcuts.

I use both windows xp/7, and OSX Snow Leopard. My only gripe is the actual physical keystrokes are different. I find myself sometimes hitting alt C instead of ctrl C...however, running both increases my productivity.

I used to be a BIG lenovo/thinkpad fanboi, but the MacBook Pro is what a laptop should be. My only changes would be a real keyboard instead of chiclets and a higher resolution option across the board. My 13" I'd love the 15" res, my 15" I'd love the 17" res.

 

[Arkaign]

people hate OSX because they can't afford the Mac to run it to begin with.

This is false.

In the main, they hate it because they're not used to it, and a lot of things just aren't available for OSX.

Apple definitely makes the best notebooks, tablets, and among the best phones (tradeoffs either way with Droid or iPhone).

Desktops and Desktop/Notebook Operating systems? That's debatable. Lots of pros and cons either way.

Anyway, has nothing to do with 'being able to afford it'. A lot of Apple stuff isn't even that expensive. MBA is really no more expensive than many premium notebooks from Dell or HP, ditto with MBP vs. alternates. MBA/MBP are better than the competition though. When you get to real desktops where you might want to do real work (SolidWorks, Maya, AutoCAD, whatever), well .. a Mac Pro is probably not the best solution. Even for general desktop work the Mac desktops are generally overpriced and underpowered for the $. This gets exaggerated 100x when someone is capable and competent to build their own PC. A $1k built PC will run circles around even most $2k Macs, and aside from the Apple logo and generally great build quality, not much to recommend the Mac there.

 

[SSSnail]

This is false.

In the main, they hate it because they're not used to it, and a lot of things just aren't available for OSX.

Apple definitely makes the best notebooks, tablets, and among the best phones (tradeoffs either way with Droid or iPhone).

Desktops and Desktop/Notebook Operating systems? That's debatable. Lots of pros and cons either way.

Anyway, has nothing to do with 'being able to afford it'. A lot of Apple stuff isn't even that expensive. MBA is really no more expensive than many premium notebooks from Dell or HP, ditto with MBP vs. alternates. MBA/MBP are better than the competition though. When you get to real desktops where you might want to do real work (SolidWorks, Maya, AutoCAD, whatever), well .. a Mac Pro is probably not the best solution. Even for general desktop work the Mac desktops are generally overpriced and underpowered for the $. This gets exaggerated 100x when someone is capable and competent to build their own PC. A $1k built PC will run circles around even most $2k Macs, and aside from the Apple logo and generally great build quality, not much to recommend the Mac there.

Dude, you're feeding the rant/trolling of a middle age pot belly guy who doesn't realize that he's way out of his mind, who is at least $200K in debt because of his upside down mortgage, who's in some kind of fucked up marriage with a 10 yrs older than him wife. But he'll keep running around provoking everybody with his bravado about how he's the hot shit.

Just let it be man. I used to argue against him, then I realized I should feel sorry for him instead. Let him have his piece and peace.

 

[Shawn]

Because I am more productive in Windows. Sure, I could get used to OS X to become just as productive, but why? I'd then have to spend a fortune switching all of my PCs over to Mac. I love my laptop which plays blu-ray movies and I only spent $515 for. Can I get anything comparable from apple? No!

The only way I'd ever even consider using OS X is if Apple released it for PCs.

 

[alkemyst]

Dude, you're feeding the rant/trolling of a middle age pot belly guy who doesn't realize that he's way out of his mind, who is at least $200K in debt because of his upside down mortgage, who's in some kind of fucked up marriage with a 10 yrs older than him wife. But he'll keep running around provoking everybody with his bravado about how he's the hot shit.

Just let it be man. I used to argue against him, then I realized I should feel sorry for him instead. Let him have his piece and peace.

lolz...I WON!

 

[alkemyst]

This is false.

In the main, they hate it because they're not used to it, and a lot of things just aren't available for OSX.

Apple definitely makes the best notebooks, tablets, and among the best phones (tradeoffs either way with Droid or iPhone).

Desktops and Desktop/Notebook Operating systems? That's debatable. Lots of pros and cons either way.

Anyway, has nothing to do with 'being able to afford it'. A lot of Apple stuff isn't even that expensive. MBA is really no more expensive than many premium notebooks from Dell or HP, ditto with MBP vs. alternates. MBA/MBP are better than the competition though. When you get to real desktops where you might want to do real work (SolidWorks, Maya, AutoCAD, whatever), well .. a Mac Pro is probably not the best solution. Even for general desktop work the Mac desktops are generally overpriced and underpowered for the $. This gets exaggerated 100x when someone is capable and competent to build their own PC. A $1k built PC will run circles around even most $2k Macs, and aside from the Apple logo and generally great build quality, not much to recommend the Mac there.

Maya and AutoCAD in the same sentence is interesting.

I do agree many are pirateing those apps though and not doing much with them.

Desktop Publishing and in the Audio world macs are still pretty damn good.

I run both platforms.

 

[Arkaign]

Maya and AutoCAD in the same sentence is interesting.

I do agree many are pirateing those apps though and not doing much with them.

Desktop Publishing and in the Audio world macs are still pretty damn good.
I run both platforms.

Agreed with the bold for sure. And most of those scenarios don't require obscene amounts of power anyway.

For many many years Mac was the only logical choice for those segments, and they're still arguably the leaders in those areas.

I've actually had a few PC Desktop clients switch to MBP after finding out what they do on a day to day basis, usually people that just do PhotoShop, InDesign, etc. Makes it easy for them to take the thing to work and back, and still have a great screen for color accuracy/etc when on the road.

 

[Patranus]

I love the PC folks who keep bringing up building a PC and then business activities.

Walk into any business and you will find name brand PCs.

 

[TheVrolok]

I have nothing against OSX (though I'd prefer Linux, and would be a full time Ubuntu user if it weren't for the fact that I game), but I dislike Apple.

 

[Arkaign]

I love the PC folks who keep bringing up building a PC and then business activities.

Walk into any business and you will find name brand PCs.

This is mostly true, but mainly for corporations vs. small/independent businesses. I've seen a fair number of custom or botique-style pcs in independent architect offices/etc.

Brand name vs. brand name though (prices taken from today's web site content of Apple and HP)

Mac Pro $2,499 (the most affordable base model)
Intel Quad-Core 2.8ghz Nehalem CPU
3GB ECC DDR3 Memory
1TB 7200RPM Sata3gps HDD
ATI MAC Radeon 5770 1GB
18X 'SuperDrive' (DVDRW/CDRW)
No Display
Apple MagicMouse and Keyboard
Zero software options (no iWork, Final cut, etc)

HP Elite HPE590t $2,468
Intel Hexa-Core 3.2Ghz CPU
16GB DDR3-1333 Memory
RAID 2TB Sata Drives
Nvidia GTX460 1GB
BluRay Writer + DVDRW/CDRW
27" HP LED Display
Logitech Wireless Desktop Premium
USB 3.0
Wireless N
Microsoft Office Home & Business 2010
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium X64 (Pro for $50 more)

Hmmm. Faster CPU, more cores, hugely better memory (16gb vs. 3gb), double the hdd, hugely better video card, 27" monitor vs. none, bluray vs. no bluray, usb 3.0 and wireless n vs. none, MS Office included, erm ...

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

This is mostly true, but mainly for corporations vs. small/independent businesses. I've seen a fair number of custom or botique-style pcs in independent architect offices/etc.

Brand name vs. brand name though (prices taken from today's web site content of Apple and HP)

Mac Pro $2,499 (the most affordable base model)
Intel Quad-Core 2.8ghz Nehalem CPU
3GB ECC DDR3 Memory
1TB 7200RPM Sata3gps HDD
ATI MAC Radeon 5770 1GB
18X 'SuperDrive' (DVDRW/CDRW)
No Display
Apple MagicMouse and Keyboard
Zero software options (no iWork, Final cut, etc)

HP Elite HPE590t $2,468
Intel Hexa-Core 3.2Ghz CPU
16GB DDR3-1333 Memory
RAID 2TB Sata Drives
Nvidia GTX460 1GB
BluRay Writer + DVDRW/CDRW
27" HP LED Display
Logitech Wireless Desktop Premium
USB 3.0
Wireless N
Microsoft Office Home & Business 2010
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium X64 (Pro for $50 more)

Hmmm. Faster CPU, more cores, hugely better memory (16gb vs. 3gb), double the hdd, hugely better video card, 27" monitor vs. none, bluray vs. no bluray, usb 3.0 and wireless n vs. none, MS Office included, erm ...

But how many plugs do you have to deal with on the PC? HUH?! That's what I thought.

 

[Arkaign]

But how many plugs do you have to deal with on the PC? HUH?! That's what I thought.

Bahahahaha!!

Well played sir!

 

[Broheim]

<snip>

Hmmm. Faster CPU, more cores, hugely better memory (16gb vs. 3gb), double the hdd, hugely better video card, 27" monitor vs. none, bluray vs. no bluray, usb 3.0 and wireless n vs. none, MS Office included, erm ...

at least pick another workstation to compare to the Mac Pro...

take a look at a real HP workstation, the pricing is similar to that of the mac pro if you take hardware differences into account.
http://www1.hp.com/


now try and build a Lenovo workstation similar to the Mac Pro

http://shop.lenovo.com/

again, the Mac Pro isn't overpriced compared to the Lenovo D:

 

[HAL9000]

Mouse acceleration in OS X is completely ridiculous and makes it unusable. Your pointer moves too slowly when you move it slowly, and very quickly jumps too fast when you start to speed up. Mouse acceleration should be very subtle but in OS X it's not at all.

This made me laugh. :biggrin:

 

[Arkaign]

at least pick another workstation to compare to the Mac Pro...

take a look at a real HP workstation, the pricing is similar to that of the mac pro if you take hardware differences into account.
http://www1.hp.com/


now try and build a Lenovo workstation similar to the Mac Pro

http://shop.lenovo.com/

again, the Mac Pro isn't overpriced compared to the Lenovo D:

The Mac Pro isn't comparable to the HP Z800.

Mac Pro :

8 Memory Slots, 64GB Max (Dual-Proc MP only)
1 PCI-E 2.0 x16, 2 PCI-E 2.0 X4
Radeon 5870 maximum video card from Apple, dual-GPU limited to two 5770 (PSU and qualified video cards massively gimped on apple side)
4 Hard Drive bays, limited to 6 hdds even if you order the optional SAS Raid Card

Z800 :

12 Memory Slots, 192GB Max
2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, 2 PCI-E 2.0 X8
Supports crazy number of video cards, up to 6GB Quadro 6000s
Dual GBIT Lan, Infineon TPM
6 Hard Drive bays including 4 SAS Hot-Swap bays, 14 total Sata+SAS connectors

They're just in a different league. The MP is sort of in the middle, offering more max ram but weaker video and almost everything else than the generic HP Elite Business PC above even when taken to max in single-cpu form. In dual-CPU setup (8 ram socket mobo), the MP slots in pretty heavily below the Z800 series.

EDIT : Checked out the Lenovo workstations, yeah they seem terribly priced and not that impressive in expansion/etc. Does support dual 2.5GB Nvidia 5000s, but for the most part seems weaker than Z800. That's all exotic territory though, it remains a general truth that the 'workstation' label is just an excuse to bend people over with the pricing, whether it be Apple, HP, IBM, or otherwise.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Never used OSX here. I can't easily install it on my hardware, so I've got no reason to care much about it either way.

 

[Chaotic42]

I don't hate it, but it just doesn't fill any need I have. There is no real positive to switching, but plenty of negative.

 

[fatpat268]

I don't mind OSX, and I don't mind Apple. I actually had a Macbook for a while, and it was nice. But at the same time, unless you're using OSX for a specific program (like finalcut or something), then it's overrated. Apple does dumb down OSX quite a bit compared to Windows or Linux... and that's perfectly fine sometimes, and other times it's absolutely infuriating.

Overall, I don't have much bad to say about OSX, but, as a gamer, I just rather use my Win7 PC instead.

 

[Broheim]

The Mac Pro isn't comparable to the HP Z800.

Mac Pro :

8 Memory Slots, 64GB Max (Dual-Proc MP only)
1 PCI-E 2.0 x16, 2 PCI-E 2.0 X4
Radeon 5870 maximum video card from Apple, dual-GPU limited to two 5770 (PSU and qualified video cards massively gimped on apple side)
4 Hard Drive bays, limited to 6 hdds even if you order the optional SAS Raid Card

Z800 :

12 Memory Slots, 192GB Max
2 PCI-E 2.0 x16, 2 PCI-E 2.0 X8
Supports crazy number of video cards, up to 6GB Quadro 6000s
Dual GBIT Lan, Infineon TPM
6 Hard Drive bays including 4 SAS Hot-Swap bays, 14 total Sata+SAS connectors

They're just in a different league. The MP is sort of in the middle, offering more max ram but weaker video and almost everything else than the generic HP Elite Business PC above even when taken to max in single-cpu form. In dual-CPU setup (8 ram socket mobo), the MP slots in pretty heavily below the Z800 series.

EDIT : Checked out the Lenovo workstations, yeah they seem terribly priced and not that impressive in expansion/etc. Does support dual 2.5GB Nvidia 5000s, but for the most part seems weaker than Z800. That's all exotic territory though, it remains a general truth that the 'workstation' label is just an excuse to bend people over with the pricing, whether it be Apple, HP, IBM, or otherwise.

let's start with memory, HP only offers 24GB with a single processor board, apple offers 32GB.

the support of video cards is entirely down to the videocard manufactor, Nvidia only wanted to support the Quadro 4000 on Mac. Also unless we're talking singleslot cards, the Z800 doesn't really support a crazy number of videocards for obvious reasons.

the Mac Pro has Dual Gbit LAN as well...

I could keep going but the most important thing, that you seem to have missed, is that the Mac Pro and the HP Z800 offers comparable hardware at the same pricepoint, that HP allows you to spend more money on more hardware is besides the point.

believe me, there's a HUGE difference between the quality in consumer grade desktops and workstations, both quality of parts, build quality and design. Workstations are built to a specification not a budget.

 

[halik]

wut

did i stutter?

I do not find joy in spending the first 3 hours of laptop ownership wiping a harddrive clean to get rid of all the bloatware, nor do I enjoy spending hours installing anti-malware programs and troubleshooting malware related issues.

As a connoisseur of free internet porn, I find this very important.

Delightfully quotable.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I don't like Apple prices and high-horsed-ness, but their products and software are pretty good. I'd love to have on of those new Mac Pros, but I'd rather have a 14" machine instead. Those new 14" Vaios are pretty sexy and powerful.

 

[sourceninja]

I don't mind OSX, and I don't mind Apple. I actually had a Macbook for a while, and it was nice. But at the same time, unless you're using OSX for a specific program (like finalcut or something), then it's overrated. Apple does dumb down OSX quite a bit compared to Windows or Linux... and that's perfectly fine sometimes, and other times it's absolutely infuriating.

Overall, I don't have much bad to say about OSX, but, as a gamer, I just rather use my Win7 PC instead.

Here I take issue. Osx is in no way dumbed down. I switched from debian, and I have lost no power or flexibility. Apple is not without glaring faults, but a dumbed down os is not one of them