At home salon business forced to close because owner wouldn't wax a trans "woman's" balls. (Canada)

[ch33zw1z]

No you dolt, my issue isn't inclusion. I accept that anyone has the right to live how they'd like, if they're not harming others' rights then have at it. That is equality. My problem is this, that the left fights for privilege and not equality today. You cannot read this story and say this is about equality. This is about forcing people, at the threat of government action, to play his game of make believe. That is fascism. And today, I think the leftists honestly think they are fighting for freedom and some kind of just moral crusade when the reality is that they are the oppressors today.

Stop the presses, slows deeply concerned about fascism!

 

[child of wonder]

You are nieve! You have been on these forums how long? Lurking or otherwise and you don`t know Slow`s SOP???

Look at the discussion now happening in this thread. People are talking about the issue.

There's a delicate balance between protecting the rights of trans people and respecting the rights of women and small business owners. Somewhere between the extremes a reasonable line exists. Regardless of spidey's intent, reasonable people can have a health debate about it because it's a real issue as the pedophile man now named Jessica Yaniv has shown.

 

[Commodus]

No you dolt, my issue isn't inclusion. I accept that anyone has the right to live how they'd like, if they're not harming others' rights then have at it. That is equality. My problem is this, that the left fights for privilege and not equality today. You cannot read this story and say this is about equality. This is about forcing people, at the threat of government action, to play his game of make believe. That is fascism. And today, I think the leftists honestly think they are fighting for freedom and some kind of just moral crusade when the reality is that they are the oppressors today.

You say that, but it's interesting how you and others like you conveniently only ever complain about situations like this when it involves LGBT issues. You know Hamlet and "the lady doth protest too much, methinks?" The abuses are an issue, but your excessive outrage over it (sparked by hardline right-wing sites telling you what to think, of course) speaks volumes.

Also, no, this is not fascism. Yaniv appears to be abusing a system meant to protect rights; the system itself is not some tyrannical measure meant to strip rights. It's possible to protect rights while addressing abuses, you know that, right? And I'm certainly not going to take lectures on equality from someone who cheerleads for a conspicuously anti-LGBT government. You hate equality, you spit on it every opportunity you get.

 

[child of wonder]

Oh, come on. The subtext is practically screaming out for attention. It’s a classic bigot maneuver: avoid displaying obvious bigotry, but conveniently fixate on extreme cases in hopes of tarnishing the entire group. I’ve seen that happen on more than one forum.

Heck, we’ve seen that here before... remember Incorruptible, who lied that he wasn’t islamophobic but conveniently only ever posted stories from sources trying to demonize Muslims? Look at the pattern of behavior.

So fucking what? I doubt anyone could post anything on this board negative about trans, gays, Muslims, people of color, etc. on this board without their intent being assumed and their character and intelligence ripped apart.

That's all I see -- character assassination over and over again unless someone falls in line with the group think here. It's pathetic.

If the issue being raised is a worthwhile topic for exploratory debate then have at it instead of hauling out the torches and pitchforks every time a thread starts against a group that you feel compelled to defend from any criticism.

Trans, gay, black, white, Muslim, atheist, all groups have some fucked up people and fucked up ideologies or stances worth talking about.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You say that, but it's interesting how you and others like you conveniently only ever complain about situations like this when it involves LGBT issues. You know Hamlet and "the lady doth protest too much, methinks?" The abuses are an issue, but your excessive outrage over it (sparked by hardline right-wing sites telling you what to think, of course) speaks volumes.

Also, no, this is not fascism. Yaniv appears to be abusing a system meant to protect rights; the system itself is not some tyrannical measure meant to strip rights. It's possible to protect rights while addressing abuses, you know that, right? And I'm certainly not going to take lectures on equality from someone who cheerleads for a conspicuously anti-LGBT government. You hate equality, you spit on it every opportunity you get.

That is all your projection and not reality. I leaned left, I am onboard with classic liberal values, what liberals used to fight for. But what they are for today is some far left twisted version of those values that has no real semblance to what liberalism was about. This is not equality, this is not what equality looks like. Some here are so indoctrinated in the modern leftist way of thinking they're actually arguing that this salon owner must touch this guy's balls. And if you step back and look at it from a higher level view, it does call into question decisions like that made recently with the cake baker that refused to make a wedding cake for a LGBT couple. I think we're going to need some better discussion over where civil rights and one party's rights ends and another party's rights begin.

 

[Commodus]

So fucking what? I doubt anyone could post anything on this board negative about trans, gays, Muslims, people of color, etc. on this board without their intent being assumed and their character and intelligence ripped apart.

That's all I see -- character assassination over and over again unless someone falls in line with the group think here. It's pathetic.

If the issue being raised is a worthwhile topic for exploratory debate then have at it instead of hauling out the torches and pitchforks every time a thread starts against a group that you feel compelled to defend from any criticism.

Trans, gay, black, white, Muslim, atheist, all groups have some fucked up people and fucked up ideologies or stances worth talking about.

I suspect you could, but you'd have to acknowledge that these problematic people are outliers, and that the concern is that they'll drag down the group as a whole. Slow's flaw, as is often the case, is his passive-aggressive implication that Yaniv is representative of the broader transgender community and that the very act of protecting transgender rights is somehow "oppressive."

Besides, there are a number of signs that point to disingenuousness behind his intent. This is a serious issue for Slow because the hardline right-wing sites he worships told him it was a serious issue; he wouldn't care nearly so much if he thought for himself. And as I just pointed out, he enthusiastically supports an administration with a clear anti-LGBT stance. He can't claim to be holding a nuanced, intelligent discussion when he practically delights in making LGBT people suffer.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So fucking what? I doubt anyone could post anything on this board negative about trans, gays, Muslims, people of color, etc. on this board without their intent being assumed and their character and intelligence ripped apart.

That's all I see -- character assassination over and over again unless someone falls in line with the group think here. It's pathetic.

If the issue being raised is a worthwhile topic for exploratory debate then have at it instead of hauling out the torches and pitchforks every time a thread starts against a group that you feel compelled to defend from any criticism.

Trans, gay, black, white, Muslim, atheist, all groups have some fucked up people and fucked up ideologies or stances worth talking about.

You would enjoy the new Netflix Chappelle special.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm actually appalled that the salon had to close over refusing to wax the transvestite.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I suspect you could, but you'd have to acknowledge that these problematic people are outliers, and that the concern is that they'll drag down the group as a whole. Slow's flaw, as is often the case, is his passive-aggressive implication that Yaniv is representative of the broader transgender community and that the very act of protecting transgender rights is somehow "oppressive."

Besides, there are a number of signs that point to disingenuousness behind his intent. This is a serious issue for Slow because the hardline right-wing sites he worships told him it was a serious issue; he wouldn't care nearly so much if he thought for himself. And as I just pointed out, he enthusiastically supports an administration with a clear anti-LGBT stance. He can't claim to be holding a nuanced, intelligent discussion when he practically delights in making LGBT people suffer.

A good number of threads consist of someone having a ton of fvxks to give about some outlier story and then projecting that outlier story to reinforce their echo chamber.

 

[child of wonder]

I suspect you could, but you'd have to acknowledge that these problematic people are outliers, and that the concern is that they'll drag down the group as a whole. Slow's flaw, as is often the case, is his passive-aggressive implication that Yaniv is representative of the broader transgender community and that the very act of protecting transgender rights is somehow "oppressive."

Besides, there are a number of signs that point to disingenuousness behind his intent. This is a serious issue for Slow because the hardline right-wing sites he worships told him it was a serious issue; he wouldn't care nearly so much if he thought for himself. And as I just pointed out, he enthusiastically supports an administration with a clear anti-LGBT stance. He can't claim to be holding a nuanced, intelligent discussion when he practically delights in making LGBT people suffer.

This sounds entirely like projection. Get help.

 

[child of wonder]

You would enjoy the new Netflix Chappelle special.

Yeah, it was great.

One of my favorite parts was the Q&A after the Broadway show where he told the story of Daphne.

 

[Commodus]

That is all your projection and not reality. I leaned left, I am onboard with classic liberal values, what liberals used to fight for. But what they are for today is some far left twisted version of those values that has no real semblance to what liberalism was about. This is not equality, this is not what equality looks like. Some here are so indoctrinated in the modern leftist way of thinking they're actually arguing that this salon owner must touch this guy's balls. And if you step back and look at it from a higher level view, it does call into question decisions like that made recently with the cake baker that refused to make a wedding cake for a LGBT couple. I think we're going to need some better discussion over where civil rights and one party's rights ends and another party's rights begin.

Please, drop the lies about leaning left. People keep asking for evidence of it and you're always evasive about it. And what we've seen so far suggests that you've always been conservative, it's just a question of how far right you've leaned -- right now, pretty far.

I do think we should ask about whether or not some companies should be asked to deal with pre-op transgender people, but I don't see this as the product of some "far left twisted version" of liberalism. Canada's approach to LGBT rights, while imperfect, is far better than what the US offers under the Trump regime. There's an underlying level of respect that doesn't exist in the States.

 

[Commodus]

This sounds entirely like projection. Get help.

I love how you decry "character assassination" and call for nuanced debate, yet resort to a childish attack of your own when someone challenges your viewpoint. Do as I say but not as I do, apparently.

 

[child of wonder]

I love how you decry "character assassination" and call for nuanced debate, yet resort to a childish attack of your own when someone challenges your viewpoint. Do as I say but not as I do, apparently.

You scurried to the moral high ground remarkably fast even from something as comparatively benign as "get help." Sorry I didn't give you an opportunity to get there sooner, you were obviously at the starting line ready to run for it at full speed.

As I said, you're projecting heavily and creating a boogeyman. It belies a savior complex and an unwillingness to internalize different points of view. If you willingly perceive any opinion or person to the right of you as "evil" or "disingenuous" then you can comfortably ignore or demean anyone.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Please, drop the lies about leaning left. People keep asking for evidence of it and you're always evasive about it. And what we've seen so far suggests that you've always been conservative, it's just a question of how far right you've leaned -- right now, pretty far.

I do think we should ask about whether or not some companies should be asked to deal with pre-op transgender people, but I don't see this as the product of some "far left twisted version" of liberalism. Canada's approach to LGBT rights, while imperfect, is far better than what the US offers under the Trump regime. There's an underlying level of respect that doesn't exist in the States.

I've been nothing but truthful here. Some of you are so evangelically indoctrinated that you cannot comprehend me leaving your ranks, like it cannot and does not happen. I'm for what I *thought* the left was for. You can say what you want, offend people with your opinions, fight against group think, individuality matters and should be respected, you don't have to be xyz demographic to matter, we're all equal. But, somewhere over the last decade or so, things got twisted with the left, and today a very solid argument can be made that the liberals are more totalitarian / fascist than the right.

 

[Moonbeam]

I've been nothing but truthful here. Some of you are so evangelically indoctrinated that you cannot comprehend me leaving your ranks, like it cannot and does not happen. I'm for what I *thought* the left was for. You can say what you want, offend people with your opinions, fight against group think, individuality matters and should be respected, you don't have to be xyz demographic to matter, we're all equal. But, somewhere over the last decade or so, things got twisted with the left, and today a very solid argument can be made that the liberals are more totalitarian / fascist than the right.

No, in the last ten years or so you discovered you were wrong and reacted in typical bigoted style, rationalizing away facts that challenged your certainty, not that you are good, you are, but that you know what the good actually is. That you don't understand for fear that the truth will say you are bad. You are what you fear, but only because of the fear.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I've been nothing but truthful here. Some of you are so evangelically indoctrinated that you cannot comprehend me leaving your ranks, like it cannot and does not happen. I'm for what I *thought* the left was for. You can say what you want, offend people with your opinions, fight against group think, individuality matters and should be respected, you don't have to be xyz demographic to matter, we're all equal. But, somewhere over the last decade or so, things got twisted with the left, and today a very solid argument can be made that the liberals are more totalitarian / fascist than the right.

lol, evangelically. it always cracks me up when you say that.

 

[SlowSpyder]

No, in the last ten years or so you discovered you were wrong and reacted in typical bigoted style, rationalizing away facts that challenged your certainty, not that you are good, you are, but that you know what the good actually is. That you don't understand for fear that the truth will say you are bad. You are what you fear, but only because of the fear.

Moonie, in your vast wisdom, would you say that a biological man, someone that has an x and y chromosome in every living cell in this person's body and male sex organs is a man or a woman? If this person believes that they are a woman, are they a woman despite the biology? Let's start there and see who is lying to themselves, rationalizing away facts that challenge their certainty.

Now regardless, I personally believe that person has a right to live how he, she, it wants to. If they are living within our law and not harming anyone's rights, more power to him or her. I don't care how one chooses to find their happiness if they can do that. But, I don't have to play along with something that is make believe, feelings before science, feelings before facts.

This is the world we've come to, this is where things get a little hairy, and this mess I would tend to say liberals caused. There is a flip side, someone has a thread going about some religious folks that didn't accept a mixed couple. The extreme on neither side is good here. That's how I see it, now you tell me why you think my moral compass is so askew.

 

[pcgeek11]

The transvestite should wax his own balls! LOL

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonie, in your vast wisdom, would you say that a biological man, someone that has an x and y chromosome in every living cell in this person's body and male sex organs is a man or a woman? If this person believes that they are a woman, are they a woman despite the biology? Let's start there and see who is lying to themselves, rationalizing away facts that challenge their certainty.

Now regardless, I personally believe that person has a right to live how he, she, it wants to. If they are living within our law and not harming anyone's rights, more power to him or her. I don't care how one chooses to find their happiness if they can do that. But, I don't have to play along with something that is make believe, feelings before science, feelings before facts.

This is the world we've come to, this is where things get a little hairy, and this mess I would tend to say liberals caused. There is a flip side, someone has a thread going about some religious folks that didn't accept a mixed couple. The extreme on neither side is good here. That's how I see it, now you tell me why you think my moral compass is so askew.

You know the saying, "Blind as a Bigot". We have that saying because all people who are do not possess some form of bigotry that some form of bigot does possess, will quickly discover that no matter how well that bigotry is shown to the bigot to be bigoted, the bigot will not see it. It would therefore be silly of me to try to show you where your thinking went off track. You have already decided that you will win the argument because you have, to your mind and your mind alone, an iron clad case. I have no real need to convince you that you are wrong. No bigot who has the same form of bigotry as you do would be persuaded by anything I could say and nobody free of your bigotry needs me to explain I am right.

The only interest I have in this is that I know the price of bigotry. I was forced to die to all of beliefs and the hopelessness that created for me burned me to ash. That's where I discovered something I call Grace, something beyond reason and thinking and ego, a damn breaker at the pit of despair that breaks itself apart and love comes pouring out. That is what I wish for you. You know it's there or you would not believe in the good and needlessly try to protect it.

 

[Amused]

Moonie, in your vast wisdom, would you say that a biological man, someone that has an x and y chromosome in every living cell in this person's body and male sex organs is a man or a woman? If this person believes that they are a woman, are they a woman despite the biology? Let's start there and see who is lying to themselves, rationalizing away facts that challenge their certainty.

Now regardless, I personally believe that person has a right to live how he, she, it wants to. If they are living within our law and not harming anyone's rights, more power to him or her. I don't care how one chooses to find their happiness if they can do that. But, I don't have to play along with something that is make believe, feelings before science, feelings before facts.

This is the world we've come to, this is where things get a little hairy, and this mess I would tend to say liberals caused. There is a flip side, someone has a thread going about some religious folks that didn't accept a mixed couple. The extreme on neither side is good here. That's how I see it, now you tell me why you think my moral compass is so askew.

Being that the majority of domestic terrorist attacks are carried out by radical right wing white males, Slow, please get help. Facts are facts, you're statistically more likely to end up being a terrorist than just about any other demographic in the US.

 

[Moonbeam]

Being that the majority of domestic terrorist attacks are carried out by radical right wing white males, Slow, please get help. Facts are facts, you're statistically more likely to end up being a terrorist than just about any other demographic in the US.

Seems to me that what he is arguing is that xx is female and xy is male. Not sure where the terrorism comes in. I mean, weren't we all taught that genetic dictum? Isn't the real issue that he can't see beyond that? I think he gets points for a partial understanding.

I mean, if you are xx or xy and happy with that, you wouldn't want to argue you shouldn't be happy, right?

 

[MajinCry]

I would like to know how being liberal means you lean left. Liberals are conservatives that don't like saying the n-word, and don't mind women showing some ankle. But regarding hierarchies, power structures, imperialism, empire, corporatocracy, and supporting terrorism? They're as left as Obama; far right. Republicans are off the spectrum right wing, but that doesn't make liberals left wing in any sense.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Look at the discussion now happening in this thread. People are talking about the issue.

There's a delicate balance between protecting the rights of trans people and respecting the rights of women and small business owners. Somewhere between the extremes a reasonable line exists. Regardless of spidey's intent, reasonable people can have a health debate about it because it's a real issue as the pedophile man now named Jessica Yaniv has shown.

I got to say this is an excellent post. While the rights of transgendered people need to be protected and respected, those rights don't overrule everyone else's rights. There needs to be a balance.

 

[Puffnstuff]

For those who believe that it was right to force this business to close, what if someone asked you to perform a task that you were opposed to? Would you want to retain your right to say no without penalty?

For the business owner this will mean that in the future they will have to have even more express terms surrounding what they will and will not do for their customers.