Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Thibsie]

CAMM is a form factor. Why does it have numbered variants??

We didn't have SO-DIMM1, SO-DIMM2, SO-DIMM3 right?

A form factor or a standard ?
Not the same.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why does it have numbered variants??

Seems it's an unfinished design and accumulating quick redesigns/enhancements until it is set in stone.

 

[soresu]

CAMM is a form factor. Why does it have numbered variants??

We didn't have SO-DIMM1, SO-DIMM2, SO-DIMM3 right?

CAMM is a proprietary standard developed by Dell.

CAMM2 is a JEDEC standard based on CAMM that anyone can implement.

Sort of like switching up from AMD/DICE's Mantle to the Khronos Vulkan API standard for low level graphics programming which was directly based on Mantle with input from the hardware and software industries.

 

[biostud]

Seems it's an unfinished design and accumulating quick redesigns/enhancements until it is set in stone.

The first CAMM was developed by Dell, maybe not to confuse it, the standard module by JEDEC is CAMM2

JEDEC Publishes New CAMM2 Memory Module Standard | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

 

[soresu]

Well adroc said AM5+ so maybe it will just be a minor modification like AM3+ was.

Pretty sure that AM3+ was designed to account for the less than great power budget of Bulldozer+ compared to K10.

 

[biostud]

CAMM is a proprietary standard developed by Dell.

CAMM2 is a JEDEC standard based on CAMM that anyone can implement - sort of like switching up from AMD/DICE's Mantle to the Khronos Vulkan API standard for low level graphics programming which was directly based on Mantle with input from the hardware and software industries.

3 minutes faster than I

 

[adroc_thurston]

I'll only be enjoying LPDDR if the latency isn't awful.

All things require a sacrifice.

 

[FlameTail]

Why is the added latency of LPDDR a problem for PC enthusiasts?

Apple Silicon Macs use LPDDR with no issue.

I suppose it has to do with the different design paradigms. Intel/AMD CPUs are designed to run at higher clock speeds, and are hence more latency sensitive.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Why is the added latency of LPDDR a problem for PC enthusiasts?

Well it sucks.
But they'll cope.

Apple Silicon Macs use LPDDR with no issue.

These things don't run video games.
Toy chips for a toy platform.
Fancy Chromebooks basically.

 

[biostud]

Why is the added latency of LPDDR a problem for PC enthusiasts?

Apple Silicon Macs use LPDDR with no issue.

I suppose it has to do with the different design paradigms. Intel/AMD CPUs are designed to run at higher clock speeds, and are hence more latency sensitive.

Gaming... One of the reasons why X3D is so successful

 

[Tigerick]

LPCAMM2/3 yes.

Adroc, you think Strix Halo will eventually support 256-bit LPDDR6?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Adroc, you think Strix Halo will eventually support 256-bit LPDDR6?

No.
It's L5x.

 

[Tigerick]

No.
It's L5x.

Hoho, we shall see...

 

[Joe NYC]

Gaming... One of the reasons why X3D is so successful

If memory latency gets worse, X3D becomes more valuable.

 

[eek2121]

Zen 2 is also quite small. If it provides enough CPU capability to exploit the GPU segment, then why change?

Imagine the size of it on N3. (not saying anything, just that the die would be super small.)

Yeah, that's the point.
You screw it in and a-ha! it works.

Not only that, but it could potentially go on the back side of the motherboard and that would save a ton of space. PCs gonna get smaller, yo!

 

[adroc_thurston]

Hoho, we shall see...

the platform is fixed in place.
Nothing to see.

Not only that, but it could potentially go on the back side of the motherboard and that would save a ton of space

It still heats up and needs cooling. So no you don't.
It's just a smaller, neater form-factor for client memory.
(frankly, DIMMs kinda suck a fat one in general)

 

[eek2121]

the platform is fixed in place.
Nothing to see.

It still heats up and needs cooling. So no you don't.
It's just a smaller, neater form-factor for client memory.
(frankly, DIMMs kinda suck a fat one in general)

Case manufacturers are already accounting for this in new and future designs. Shoot. some manufacturers are already including extra space for backside power connectors.

I would dig up some links, but I am on mobile rn.

 

[soresu]

Why is the added latency of LPDDR a problem for PC enthusiasts?

It depends entirely on your use case.

Many are not low latency dependent, like offline (slower than real time) software video encoding.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Case manufacturers are already accounting for this in new and future designs

Can't do that, you're ATX-limited.

some manufacturers are already including extra space for backside power connectors.

That's not dissipating any real heat.

It depends entirely on your use case.

The usecase for DIY DT PC is gaming.
LPDDR is sorta a mixed bag there; higher net (and I think effective) bandwidth but latency is measurably (very much so) worse.

 

[soresu]

Shoot. some manufacturers are already including extra space for backside power connectors

Given what backside is slang for in Britain I cannot help but visualise that 😂🤣😆

 

[soresu]

Can't do that, you're ATX-limited.

I wonder if Dell went to the trouble of developing a full ATX replacement if some standards body would take it up like JEDEC did for CAMM.

Seems like a modern overhaul of overall PC system design is long overdue.

 

[FlameTail]

And this is why I am not PCMR-guy.

 

[Elfear]

And this is why I am not PCMR-guy.

Because you're not a gamer??

 

[igor_kavinski]

Seems like a modern overhaul of overall PC system design is long overdue.

I prefer something like easy to plug rectangular modules. Everything covered with a plastic shroud to protect the internal electronics and having microchannel spaces in the plastic for airflow. Make it so easy that a five year old can assemble their own PC.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Because you're not a gamer??

Maybe all his gaming needs are met by Candy Crush...