Todd33
Diamond Member
- Oct 16, 2003
- 7,842
- 2
- 81
I agree, the Bible is a man made book, all of it is BS to me. I just love to throw the "word of God" back at the so-called believers. I'm clean on this issue, I don't preach or believe any of it. It's the Christians that pick and choose what they want to use for their own gain, that makes them the biggest offenders to all that God and Jesus stand for. They deserve the lake of fire more than atheist IMO.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 31,503
- 47,975
- 136
Now you're just being stupid. Bush has on many occasions claimed to hold an endorsement from the divine in the same manner many kings and queens of old did. He doesn't practice what he preaches, and then asserts to the faithful that his career is sanctioned by god. Distortion, defiling, take your pick...
I'm sorry that my take on the situation differing from yours makes me stupid. You're right, you're always right, and you always will be right. Maybe you should run for president?
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
I dunno, you still seem to give off this "holier than thou" vibe with your posts. You say "it's Christians that do this or that." Do you not feel it necessary to add any conditionals to your claims, or do you truly feel that ALL christians are hypocritical and deserve eternal suffering? I am beginning to see the OP's point. If anyone said the same thing about just about any other religion, people here would be up in arms, but Christianity seems to be in ripe for the picking.
Your a full on nutjob whacko. I thought your sickening "never did wrong" support for Kerry was just poor judgement, but after THIS coimment its very very clear to me. Your a complete psychopath who is in NO way in touch with reality. :Q
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 31,503
- 47,975
- 136
Grow up. Your 'take on the situation' isn't grounded in reality, and that's not my fault. Maybe instead of attempting to patronize you could address what it is you disagree with. My position is backed up by facts; care to take a stab at it or are you going to continue acting like a 4th grader? If this is all you can bring to the table, perhaps you should move along to OT...
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: Trevelyan
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Word.
Another thing I find problematic with Bush and those like him is the love your enemy / turn the other cheek thing. I remember when there was that special on how he responded to 9/11, the first thing he said to Cheney is, "someone's gonna' pay for this" or something to that nature. Not only was that immature, it was unchristian.
I don't understand why more protestants, who are supposed to read the actual bible a lot, don't see this. Also, are there any preachers that actually make this argument? It would be nice to hear a religious voice that wasn't in league with warmongers and their ilk.
:|
Whats going to happen when an atheist gets elected? Will the left wing atheists of the country see that presidents compassion, or anything else typically called Christian behavior as being un-atheist? :roll:
What ever made you think that atheist were all left wing ? I know some pretty hardcore right wing voting atheist conservatives who hate the fact that the GOP has been hi-jacked by radical born-again Christians so that they can fund their social Christian agenda through government. I also agree with InforHawk on the whole compassion thing not being a Christian monopoly as well.
P.S. Where is the compassion in telling someone that they are going to hell no matter how good they are just because they don't practice the same religion as you ?
I like this question, and I hear it more than any other one. I'll try to answer it as best as I can. Assume for just a second that you really do believe everything Jesus said, like I do, then you would believe that if you died without believing in him as the one true Son of God, you would go to hell.
Now, with that knowlege, what is more compassionate? Letting someone you care about live the way they want to for 100 or so years and then go to hell for all eternity, or rather, sharing your faith with them and trying very hard to show them the love of Jesus and that what he said was true so that the person would spend eternity in joy, rather than anguish?
If a Christian says to you that "I believe in Jesus, but it's not for everyone, you can have your beliefs about who God is and that's cool too" then I would seriously question that person's faith. Sure, it may conform well to our society's love of universal acceptance and moral relativism, but all that doesn't matter if it isn't the truth. Remember, your faith alone doesn't save you, it's who you put your faith in that does.
That's not sharing your faith. Sharing your faith would be telling the person that they would lead a much richer and fuller spitural life by believing in your religion. Telling them they are going to hell is just trying to use fear to convert them into your religion.
I'm not saying you should use the fear of going to hell as your main point in sharing, I'm saying that at the very least it should be a motivation to share your beliefs. Different people respond to different methods, and so the person to whom your speaking should determine how you share. In the grand scheme of things, its not how you reach someone, its that you do reach them. And the best way to reach anyone is through love and compassion, not hatred and anger.
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
Your opinion is not the be-all, end-all, nor is mine. The difference between us is that I readily admit that, while you proceed ahead like you're on some unholy, non-religious crusade. Your 'fact' is nothing more than one statement by Bush claiming that he believes that God is on his side. I'm sorry, but I don't see that meaning he is trying to turn this into some sort of theocratic monarchy. You can argue if you want, but my opinion won't change on this one, regardless of how many sticks and stones you throw at me.
*throws a
under the bridge*I agree with you, demonstrating your faith through love and kindness is a very good way to show how Jesus has affected your life. Unfortunately, you have to eventually share Jesus with that person if given the opportunity, otherwise you are neglecting the most important part: letting Jesus change their life.
Hell is real, and if you're a true Christian there's no denying that if you die without Christ you go to hell for all eternity, period. Faced with this fact, it can be difficult for me to comprehend how some people say we should avoid the topic of Hell, or else we'll just sound like we're using a scare tactic... it's an important part of Scripture, not one to be avoided because it's uncomfortable talking about.
Remember, Jesus told us to reach the unreached:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Christians get critized a lot for so vehemently defending their beliefs, but really, when your life comes to an end, what matters most? What people here say about you, or what God says about you?
"If you found a cure for cancer, wouldn't it be inconceivable to hide it from the rest of mankind? How much more inconceivable to keep silent the cure from the eternal wages of death." - Dave Davidson, Missionary
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 31,503
- 47,975
- 136
There's more than one I was alluding to, and as for Bush's reference to his divine backing, you are wrong both in number and in context. He has done it more than once, and it wasn't to the tune of god being on his side, more like "god told me to go into Iraq" and "god told me he wants me to be president." But no, you go ahead and keep backpeddling, it really is amusing...
Why hello there Mr. Strawman!
*pssssst* I didn't say he was trying to institute a "theocratic monarchy." When you attempt to divert like this, it really hurts your chances of being taken seriously.
You're the one arguing, I'm pointing to historical facts and asking for something of merit from you. You haven't successfully stated much beyond that you enjoy keeping your head in the sand. Gee, I guess you showed me!
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
- 5,435
- 234
- 106
Infohawk - Actually, I grew up Catholic but am much more on the agnostic side than anything else these days. I'd classify myself as 'Christian", but that is prety loose since I'm not a regular church-goer. I clasify my beliefs and relationship with God as a personal matter. I don't get as offended as others when I'm preached to, but it isn't like I'm a fan of it. I'm annoyed by some attacks on religion only because many of the people doing so are as big or bigger bigots than what they are attacking. I'm not saying that it isn't something that should be resisted to a certain point. At least the founders of the USA thought so.
"essential exactly" was my attempt to to use "exactly" as the words are obviously not the same and you like to troll around items like that. The passage you quoted does not say that wealth is bad. There is a strong warning to not let money be your master - that you should only serve God. That doesn't mean that you can't make money.
For example, you can make money and then use your wealth for good works and to spread the love of Jesus. If the money-making is simply a means to that type of end, then I don't think the Bible would decry or forbid it. However, it is easy to get distracted by that type of action.
Jesus (and many other religious figures in most religions) promotes a simple, humble life as the best course. That's best in the one most likely to be free of the sin of gluttony/worship of mammon. Not the only choice. When disciples are sent out to do good works, they are sent out with the most simple of preparations to try and maximize their chance of success.
Michael
"essential exactly" was my attempt to to use "exactly" as the words are obviously not the same and you like to troll around items like that. The passage you quoted does not say that wealth is bad. There is a strong warning to not let money be your master - that you should only serve God. That doesn't mean that you can't make money.
For example, you can make money and then use your wealth for good works and to spread the love of Jesus. If the money-making is simply a means to that type of end, then I don't think the Bible would decry or forbid it. However, it is easy to get distracted by that type of action.
Jesus (and many other religious figures in most religions) promotes a simple, humble life as the best course. That's best in the one most likely to be free of the sin of gluttony/worship of mammon. Not the only choice. When disciples are sent out to do good works, they are sent out with the most simple of preparations to try and maximize their chance of success.
Michael
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You can keep that cookie for yourself, kage69 might be a lot of things, but a troll he is not.
I am NOT so sure about you though, do you feed on replies?
I try to address the issue presented by posts, not take it apart sentence by sentence so that no one, including the one who posted it, can even recognize it. Kage is doing just that, and it's not adding anything to the discussion, which is why I haven't put any effort into rebutting him.Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You can keep that cookie for yourself, kage69 might be a lot of things, but a troll he is not.
I am NOT so sure about you though, do you feed on replies?
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I try to address the issue presented by posts, not take it apart sentence by sentence so that no one, including the one who posted it, can even recognize it. Kage is doing just that, and it's not adding anything to the discussion, which is why I haven't put any effort into rebutting him.Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You can keep that cookie for yourself, kage69 might be a lot of things, but a troll he is not.
I am NOT so sure about you though, do you feed on replies?
A reply just to get your point heard for the umpteenth time is considered a troll.
Kage added something to this discuasion, you missed it though.
He stated his opinion, I disagreed, and he started microanalyzing posts, trying to prove his opinion 'right' and my opinion wrong, which can't be done. Or at least that's what my teacher told me in fifth grade when I learned the difference between opinions and facts.
You missed the point by a mile, it flew right over your head.
heh, please tell me you are kidding?
Oh, and just for good measure, I had to point out the fact that his statements actually comprise the dreaded Red Herring. :beer:
I am not in any kind of war (if that is the correct term anyway) against Christianity, but I want it to leave me alone. Since I believe that all religions are simply superstition and folklore left over from the days before science, I want no laws based on the mystical imaginings of long dead men whose cultures and societies are alien to me.
As examples:
If I decide my quality of life (by whatever definition I chose it to be) has deteriorated to a point that I perfer to die, I will want to die, and maybe have expert help in doing so. Suicide is really a very personal thing.
Abortion should not be a legal issue, but a personal one. I refuse to believe that some god works some magic as soon as a sperm and egg combine.
Homosexuality is older than Christianity. I don't care who is gay. I get along with nice people, and gay dosen't belong in any equasion used to decide who is nice (or any of numerous other adjetives). All gays want is to share the benefits that the government has bestowed on other committed couples. Sounds fair to me.
If I should decide for some reason that I want to buy a bottle of wiskey on Sunday morning, I don't want any "blue laws" telling me not to. (I live in Ohio and we still have such stupid laws.)
Why is prostitution a crime? Dosen't a hooker use her body to render a service for renumeration just as a ditch digger does?
No logical or scientific reason to impede stem cell research either, just more religeous hand wringing.
I could go on and on, but I'm sure I've made my point. I personally belive that all religion is crap (just my opinion remember) and I don't need any laws based on religious nonsence, thank you very much. Bush and the fundies he panders to have cast themselves in an adversarial role. I feel the need to push back.
If you feel the need to believe in some imaginary god, more power to you. Just don't try to direct others lives to be compatable with your beliefs.
As examples:
If I decide my quality of life (by whatever definition I chose it to be) has deteriorated to a point that I perfer to die, I will want to die, and maybe have expert help in doing so. Suicide is really a very personal thing.
Abortion should not be a legal issue, but a personal one. I refuse to believe that some god works some magic as soon as a sperm and egg combine.
Homosexuality is older than Christianity. I don't care who is gay. I get along with nice people, and gay dosen't belong in any equasion used to decide who is nice (or any of numerous other adjetives). All gays want is to share the benefits that the government has bestowed on other committed couples. Sounds fair to me.
If I should decide for some reason that I want to buy a bottle of wiskey on Sunday morning, I don't want any "blue laws" telling me not to. (I live in Ohio and we still have such stupid laws.)
Why is prostitution a crime? Dosen't a hooker use her body to render a service for renumeration just as a ditch digger does?
No logical or scientific reason to impede stem cell research either, just more religeous hand wringing.
I could go on and on, but I'm sure I've made my point. I personally belive that all religion is crap (just my opinion remember) and I don't need any laws based on religious nonsence, thank you very much. Bush and the fundies he panders to have cast themselves in an adversarial role. I feel the need to push back.
If you feel the need to believe in some imaginary god, more power to you. Just don't try to direct others lives to be compatable with your beliefs.
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