War on Christianity

[jaydee]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

For the last time, your judgment is not required for someone to hold themselves as Christian or otherwise, nor is it welcome

LOL. I don't care if you want to hear my judgment, I'm gonna give it to you. For the reasons given above, you ain't no Christian. Have arguments or more rhetoric about me being informed despite the fact you don't present any verse?

Remember people, GWB and most so-called Christians are about as Christian as prostitutes are. Sure, they can be forgiven for worshipping mammon and being warmongers. So can the prostitute for selling herself. But do you generally look to prostitutes as examples of Christians or Christian leaders? That's how I feel about GWB and so many disciples of Paul. Have fun and thanks.

LOL. I don't care if you want to hear my judgment, I'm gonna give it to you. For the reasons given above, you ain't no Christian.

This is a ridiculous statement, and I've shown you with scripture already that it is inconsistent with the Bible for man to judge anyone on spiritual matters.


I also already showed to you with scripture that there is nothing wrong with money in and of itself whereas with prostitution there is. So the "mammon worshipping" bit is not a valid arguement. You also seem still stuck on the war theme/turn the other cheek despite no Biblical backing.


Who is looking at GWB for Christian leadership? No one proclaimed Bush as the model for Christian leadership and nor should they. Christian leadership should be sought from people who you have direct contact with, not some political figure just because he says "God bless America" in his speeches.


Finally, where on earth are you coming from when you make such comparisions to the disciples of Paul?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Just because you say I have no knowledge doesn't make it so. The bible says it is hard for a rich man to get into heaven. Jesus lived a simple life with no interest in material wealth.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY BEING RICH IS COOL WITH JESUS?

Step up and cite some verses if you think you know so much. :roll:

Let me guess, you're another protestant who buys the crap about accumulating wealth for the glory of god? None of that crap is sanctioned by words in the bible. Keep deluding yourself that it's okay to lead a shallow empty materialistic life and live the way Jesus wanted. :thumbsdown:

You are probabily one of the stupidest posters I have *met * to date on these boards...congrats.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Isla
Feeling persecuted is a sign of schizophrenia.

Honestly, MANY churches use the whole 'war on Christianity' spiel as a way to 'unite'. All it does is make you feel more that the world is all "us" against "them".

Please don't buy into that social brainwashing crap.

Oh please,

Anyone who does not notice the apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society is either a hermit and cut off from all communication, ignorant, or unwilling to realise they themselves have a predisposition against said religion and feel there is nothing wrong with the current stance of society and or media.

And while the current happenings in either the pastors lives and or the proponents of said religions views may very well play a part...unfortunately it goes a bit deeper than that....however it could be tied to the "everyone loves to hate/criticise) the most popular phenom...or the most popular/public is the easiest to show flaw....

On a side note...they made you elite or is that something which has always been the case and I have missed? guess the title truly doesn't mean much afterall.

 

[jaydee]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Isla
Feeling persecuted is a sign of schizophrenia.

Honestly, MANY churches use the whole 'war on Christianity' spiel as a way to 'unite'. All it does is make you feel more that the world is all "us" against "them".

Please don't buy into that social brainwashing crap.

Oh please,

Anyone who does not notice the apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society is either a hermit and cut off from all communication, ignorant, or unqilling to realise they themselves have a predisposition against said religion and feel there is nothing wrong with the current stance of society and or media.

And while the current happenings in either the pastors lives and or the proponents of said religions views may very well play a part...unfortunately it goes a bit deeper than that....however it could be tied to the "everyone loves to hate/criticise) the most popular phenom...or the most popular/public is the easiest to show flaw....

On a side note...they made you elite or is that something which has always been the case and I have missed? guess the title truly doesn't mean much afterall.

Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

 

[CycloWizard]

Conjur, two wrongs don't make a right. Your generalization assumes all Christians try to force their views on other people, which isn't true.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Conjur, two wrongs don't make a right. Your generalization assumes all Christians try to force their views on other people, which isn't true.

Bzzzt! WRONG!

Let's look at what I wrote, shall we?

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

Hmmm...are you saying ALL Christians are fundamental/evangelical Christians??? BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

That is the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexualiity and you refer to them as bigots....


Is your argument wrong, or are you a bigot?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

That is the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexualiity and you refer to them as bigots....


Is your argument wrong, or are you a bigot?

Uh, no it's NOT the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality but, nice try at distorting the truth.


:roll:

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

That is the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality and you refer to them as bigots....


Is your argument wrong, or are you a bigot?

Uh, no it's NOT the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality but, nice try at distorting the truth.


:roll:

Its Your logic: Its ok to be openly homosexual, but not a fundamentalist christian.

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Are you really a Christian? I've noticed a lot of people call themselves Christians even though they really aren't. E.g., CHrist advocated living a simple life and said rich people would not go to heaven. Protestant nuts like GWB have tried to weasel out of that to support their worship of mammon. In essence, they are non christians.

Christ had noble ideals, the only problem is the people that pretent to represent him dont' follow any of them.

Way to prove you have absolutely no knowledge of Christianity. I'm glad it doesn't stop you from speaking so authoritativly though.

Actually not true "You cannot worship me and mammen at the same time." verse escapes me but that is astute.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ozoned
That is the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality and you refer to them as bigots....


Is your argument wrong, or are you a bigot?

Uh, no it's NOT the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality but, nice try at distorting the truth.


:roll:

Its Your logic: Its ok to be openly homosexual, but not a fundamentalist christian.

Wrong again!

I'm talking about the fundamentalist Christians that push their beliefs upon other people. Forcing other people to abide by their beliefs either through personal actions or by them pushing for and attaining the addition of new laws that adhere to their beliefs (such as the so-called "blue laws")

Someone who's openly homosexual is not trying to force me to become homosexual.


You're WAY out on a limb with your failed analogy.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Conjur, two wrongs don't make a right. Your generalization assumes all Christians try to force their views on other people, which isn't true.

Bzzzt! WRONG!

Let's look at what I wrote, shall we?

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

Hmmm...are you saying ALL Christians are fundamental/evangelical Christians??? BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

/strawman
No, I'm saying that all of us receive the same persecution via the media, whether we are fundamentalists or otherwise.

Originally posted by: conjur
Wrong again!

I'm talking about the fundamentalist Christians that push their beliefs upon other people. Forcing other people to abide by their beliefs either through personal actions or by them pushing for and attaining the addition of new laws that adhere to their beliefs (such as the so-called "blue laws")

Someone who's openly homosexual is not trying to force me to become homosexual.


You're WAY out on a limb with your failed analogy.

Here's the analogy he was trying to make and you apparently missed.

Christian fundamentalists push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.
Homosexuals push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.

Gay marriage would represent exactly this.

 

[Vadatajs]

Here's the analogy he was trying to make and you apparently missed.

Christian fundamentalists push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.
Homosexuals push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.

Gay marriage would represent exactly this.

non sequitur

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Are you really a Christian? I've noticed a lot of people call themselves Christians even though they really aren't. E.g., CHrist advocated living a simple life and said rich people would not go to heaven. Protestant nuts like GWB have tried to weasel out of that to support their worship of mammon. In essence, they are non christians.

Christ had noble ideals, the only problem is the people that pretent to represent him dont' follow any of them.

Way to prove you have absolutely no knowledge of Christianity. I'm glad it doesn't stop you from speaking so authoritativly though.

Actually not true "You cannot worship me and mammen at the same time." verse escapes me but that is astute.

Please find the verse if you want me to believe you.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ozoned
That is the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality and you refer to them as bigots....


Is your argument wrong, or are you a bigot?

Uh, no it's NOT the same argument that a lot of people make towards homosexuality but, nice try at distorting the truth.


:roll:

Its Your logic: Its ok to be openly homosexual, but not a fundamentalist christian.

Wrong again!

I'm talking about the fundamentalist Christians that push their beliefs upon other people. Forcing other people to abide by their beliefs either through personal actions or by them pushing for and attaining the addition of new laws that adhere to their beliefs (such as the so-called "blue laws")

Someone who's openly homosexual is not trying to force me to become homosexual.


You're WAY out on a limb with your failed analogy.

Forcing people to abide by a certain religious belief is against many laws. That can be dealt with. That blows that part of your argument out of the water. The other part is exactly the same as current agenda of homosexual's.

I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or a homosexual, and as such, if I fall from my LIMB, I don't get hurt.


You have been very vocal on this forum in condemning anyone with the slightest argument against homosexuality. Most of the time labeling them as a bigot.

Where is your tolerance for the Christian fundamentalists?

Oh yea, keep it in the closet.


"Keep thy religion to thyself".

So, is there a problem with your argument, or are you a bigot?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Conjur, two wrongs don't make a right. Your generalization assumes all Christians try to force their views on other people, which isn't true.

Bzzzt! WRONG!

Let's look at what I wrote, shall we?

If the fundamental/evangelical Christians don't want to be "persecuted", according to your logic, all they have to do is stop forcing their beliefs on the rest of the country.

As George Carlin said:

"Keep thy religion to thyself."

Otherwise, it's the rest of America (and the world, for that matter) that is harrassed and pestered by fundamental Christians. The rest of us are merely standing up for our own rights and beliefs.

Hmmm...are you saying ALL Christians are fundamental/evangelical Christians??? BWA HA HA HA HA HA!

/strawman
No, I'm saying that all of us receive the same persecution via the media, whether we are fundamentalists or otherwise.

Piss off with your idiotic strawman crap. This is NOT a strawman argument. You are the one putting words in my mouth. I never said ALL Christians and you're certainly exaggerating by claiming all Christians are persecuted in the media.

Originally posted by: conjur
Wrong again!

I'm talking about the fundamentalist Christians that push their beliefs upon other people. Forcing other people to abide by their beliefs either through personal actions or by them pushing for and attaining the addition of new laws that adhere to their beliefs (such as the so-called "blue laws")

Someone who's openly homosexual is not trying to force me to become homosexual.


You're WAY out on a limb with your failed analogy.

Here's the analogy he was trying to make and you apparently missed.

Christian fundamentalists push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.
Homosexuals push their beliefs on people by passing laws to force their beliefs.

Gay marriage would represent exactly this.

Homosexuals may be Christian or Muslim or Atheist. They are not pushing any beliefs. They are only asking for equal treatment under the law. Religion CANNOT have a hand in the making of our country's laws. Because YOUR belief is that homosexuality is a sin before God CANNOT be used to create a law in the United States of America.

You are both WAY off on a tangent with this line of thinking.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Forcing people to abide by a certain religious belief is against many laws. That can be dealt with. That blows that part of your argument out of the water. The other part is exactly the same as current agenda of homosexual's.

I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or a homosexual, and as such, if I fall from my LIMB, I don't get hurt.


You have been very vocal on this forum in condemning anyone with the slightest argument against homosexuality. Most of the time labeling them as a bigot.

Where is your tolerance for the Christian fundamentalists?

Oh yea, keep it in the closet.


"Keep thy religion to thyself".

So, is there a problem with your argument, or are you a bigot?

Ah, here comes that fallacious argument that being intolerant of the intolerant equals bigotry.

:roll:


By your logic, people fighting for the civil rights of blacks back in the 50s/60s were bigoted against the bigots.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: conjur
Piss off with your idiotic strawman crap. This is NOT a strawman argument. You are the one putting words in my mouth. I never said ALL Christians and you're certainly exaggerating by claiming all Christians are persecuted in the media.

You're ignoring the point I'm making - I can't say it any plainer than this. The media reaches everyone* - if it is biased against Christians, then all Christians are being persecuted. *Except the Amish.

Originally posted by: conjur
Homosexuals may be Christian or Muslim or Atheist. They are not pushing any beliefs. They are only asking for equal treatment under the law. Religion CANNOT have a hand in the making of our country's laws. Because YOUR belief is that homosexuality is a sin before God CANNOT be used to create a law in the United States of America.

You are both WAY off on a tangent with this line of thinking.

So if Christianity were a sexual persuasion, we could make any laws abiding our beliefs as we see fit, but since it's a religion, it can't have any.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Forcing people to abide by a certain religious belief is against many laws. That can be dealt with. That blows that part of your argument out of the water. The other part is exactly the same as current agenda of homosexual's.

I am neither a Christian fundamentalist or a homosexual, and as such, if I fall from my LIMB, I don't get hurt.


You have been very vocal on this forum in condemning anyone with the slightest argument against homosexuality. Most of the time labeling them as a bigot.

Where is your tolerance for the Christian fundamentalists?

Oh yea, keep it in the closet.


"Keep thy religion to thyself".

So, is there a problem with your argument, or are you a bigot?

Ah, here comes that fallacious argument that being intolerant of the intolerant equals bigotry.

:roll:


By your logic, people fighting for the civil rights of blacks back in the 50s/60s were bigoted against the bigots.

I have found in every Christian I have ever met ( and I have met a lot) , extreme tolerance of everything. Sure, they are very vocal about their beliefs, but so are you.

I suppose that I could be wrong about my opinion.

But by the definition of the word Bigot, and your opinion of christian fundamentalists, and your unwillingness to sway from your position.......Well, there you go.

 

[conjur]

Yeah...right...I'm a bigot against bigots. That makes sense. :roll:

And, btw, your anectdotal evidence is duly noted....and then summarily ignored.

 

[Anubis08]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Are you really a Christian? I've noticed a lot of people call themselves Christians even though they really aren't. E.g., CHrist advocated living a simple life and said rich people would not go to heaven. Protestant nuts like GWB have tried to weasel out of that to support their worship of mammon. In essence, they are non christians.

Christ had noble ideals, the only problem is the people that pretent to represent him dont' follow any of them.

Christ NEVER EVER EVER said rich people will not go to Heaven. He advocated not letting that come between a person and worship, and the easiest way was giving it up for people. Even today it is one of the hardest things to do, and it is by no means necessary to worship God as long as it never gets more important in any way to his plan.

 

[wallsfd949]

Originally posted by: eigen
I know what it is about because I spent every day of my school life in a religous academy. I have sat through 4 years of theology classes and know and can counter most ideas concerning the existence/nature of God. It is because of this that I reject Christian dogma and will call it a blight upon the world.

Religious schools and "Semitaries" have ruined more good preacher boys in our country. At one time these 'schools of theology' were used to train preachers to have some fire and zeal. Now they are just dead dried up institutions putting out pastorettes who preach sermonettes putout by 'headquarters'.

Since this is a 'Christian' post, I'll add my 0.02.

If God called men would get a burden, love the Book, and love the souls of men, and preach like lives depended on it, people would really get a taste of what Christianity is. You'd be hard pressed to walk into most cities in the US and find true Christianity. Your view of 'Christianity' has been slanted by some idiot professor in a semitary.


BTW, I'm not a protestant, I never protested anything and was never part of the Great Whore (Rev. 17:1-5).

 

[jaydee]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: jaydee
Seriously dude, back off. Isla is one of the most respected people here, so you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

The "apparent anti christian/catholic senitment either in the media or society" != persecution and that's what was trying to be said here. Is there a bent against Christians in America today? Ya, I feel that way sometimes. Do I feel persecuted? Not even remotely. If you let every single thing said against every institution you happen to be a part of in a country blessed with the freedom of speech, you're going to be in for some tough living.

The repetitive anti-Christian sentiment is persecution. It's not as bad as being hunted in the streets, but there's no denying it exists.

Persecute:
1 : to harass in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
2 : to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER

If I lead myself to believe that I'm being persecuted as a Christian in America today, then for the same reasons, I must be "persecuted" as a Yankee fan, a computer geek, an independent party registered voter, an ATI/AMD guy, ect. all to a degree equal to or greater than being a Christian.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I can't think of a group of people with unified beliefs/values/interests that isn't bashed by some other group in some way at some point in time. It's part of the package that comes with living in a country with the freedom of speech. When the laws start changing that restrict my rights to practice Christianity, I'll holler and fuss as much as anyone, but we are no where even remotely close to that point.