War on Christianity

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: cquark
Paul won the battle with the original Christians in Jerusalem led by James, brother of Jesus, for which version of Christianity would dominate Europe for three primary reasons:

1. Paul didn't require following Jewish law, so it was easier for him to gain converts than it was for the Apostles.
2. Jerusalem was at the center of the Jewish wars of the 1st and 2nd centuries, which ended up with the Temple destroyed and killed many and dispersed the rest of both the Jews and the Jewish followers of Jesus.
3. Constatine wanted a religion that would unify the Roman Empire, so he convened the Catholic/Orthdox (they hadn't split yet) bishops to produce the Nicene Creed and to suppress the Christian books which were deemed harmful to this new state religion.

Yes. There are actually two perversions in modern "christian" faith. First, the religion is indeed that of Paul. That was the first perversion since he modified the religion. It seems that Jesus was a reformer Jew and not intending to start a whole new religion. The second perversion is that people don't even follow a rational construction of Paul's bible. While I disagree with his ideas like "you have to accept jesus" there's still some good ideas in there. Except that people like Bush don't even bother following that.

I just don't see how anyone can read the bible and think people like GWB and the Christian coalition are following either the original teachings or Paul's teachings.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

No, I refuse to pretend that I have to justify any religious belief that I might have to a two-bit punk like yourself. If you half-believed your own theory that religion shouldn't be a part of government, that religion should be each person's choice, then you wouldn't try to harass others about their religion. You, sir, are breaking new ground in hypocrisy. Further, you paint ALL people that call themselves Christians (which comprise % of the entire planet's population) hypocrites.

Nice job attacking my motives and me instead of addressing the issues. So called christians oppress Americans everyday with their nonsense. I'm calling you and them out on it and saying you're not true followers of Jesus' past. If you don't want to defend yourself stop posting.

The more anger you display, the more you show you don't understand his or even Paul's message.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I just don't see how anyone can read the bible and think people like GWB and the Christian coalition are following either the original teachings or Paul's teachings.

I don't see how you can read the Bible and judge someone else on how they're living it, especially when you know nothing about their lives as a whole.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Being a Christian myself, I'm totally disgusted at how people view our religion. Sure, there are extreme fundamentalists but I assure you that not every Christian like that. I find it very offensive that members on this board kept dissing Christianity when they don't even know what it's all about.

I'm sorry, you are bitching about anti-Christian zealots, but you dismiss the pro-Christian zealots. There are extremists on any side of an issue, don't get your panties in a bunch about it. If I can ignore people screaming at me that I'm going to hell while I try to walk to class, you can ignore the same sort of treatment for your beliefs.

Edit: And just to put things in perspective, having crucial laws decided based on religious beliefs you don't happen to share is something you poor, persecuted Christians don't have to deal with. Imagine having to live in a country where decisions are made all the time based off of, say, Islam's belief system. That's how us mean old non-Christians feel sometimes living here.

 

[PatboyX]

its not just christian that get attacked on these boards.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: dannybin1742

In the new testament it says we will know Christians by their love, by the fruit they bear. Because of this, I am skeptical that Bush is really a man of faith at all. I think he has simply found a way to exploit the religiosity of others.

amen, i knew someone would finally touch on this

Word.

Another thing I find problematic with Bush and those like him is the love your enemy / turn the other cheek thing. I remember when there was that special on how he responded to 9/11, the first thing he said to Cheney is, "someone's gonna' pay for this" or something to that nature. Not only was that immature, it was unchristian.

I don't understand why more protestants, who are supposed to read the actual bible a lot, don't see this. Also, are there any preachers that actually make this argument? It would be nice to hear a religious voice that wasn't in league with warmongers and their ilk.

:|

Whats going to happen when an atheist gets elected? Will the left wing atheists of the country see that presidents compassion, or anything else typically called Christian behavior as being un-atheist? :roll:

What ever made you think that atheist were all left wing ? I know some pretty hardcore right wing voting atheist conservatives who hate the fact that the GOP has been hi-jacked by radical born-again Christians so that they can fund their social Christian agenda through government. I also agree with InforHawk on the whole compassion thing not being a Christian monopoly as well.

P.S. Where is the compassion in telling someone that they are going to hell no matter how good they are just because they don't practice the same religion as you ?

I'm one of those (though not necessarily hardcore).

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: PatboyX
its not just christian that get attacked on these boards.

True, but it seems to be an acceptable practice where as other groups are off limits.

CsG

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: PatboyX
its not just christian that get attacked on these boards.

True, but it seems to be an acceptable practice where as other groups are off limits.

CsG

I don't think the bashing is one way...in my experience both "sides" give as good as they get. Not that this makes it any more ok, but I wouldn't say Christians are totally innocent on these boards either.

And how is it "acceptable practice" when we see numerous posts and threads about how we better knock it off because the poster is getting sick of it?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Nice job attacking my motives and me instead of addressing the issues. So called christians oppress Americans everyday with their nonsense. I'm calling you and them out on it and saying you're not true followers of Jesus' past. If you don't want to defend yourself stop posting.

The more anger you display, the more you show you don't understand his or even Paul's message.

I'm exposing you as a bigot, nothing more, nothing less. If you have to get your jollies by bashing someone's religion, then I pity you.

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Edit: And just to put things in perspective, having crucial laws decided based on religious beliefs you don't happen to share is something you poor, persecuted Christians don't have to deal with. Imagine having to live in a country where decisions are made all the time based off of, say, Islam's belief system. That's how us mean old non-Christians feel sometimes living here.

Can you give an example of a Christian-based law or decision that makes you feel uncomfortable? There are plenty that make me uncomfortable as a Christian (and as a decent human being), so maybe I'm just not seeing it.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Are you really a Christian? I've noticed a lot of people call themselves Christians even though they really aren't. E.g., CHrist advocated living a simple life and said rich people would not go to heaven.

Incorrect. Go back and read The New Testament.

 

[Moonbeam]

"I am the devinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy." Meher Baba

 

[Michael]

Infohawk - Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The scripture you quoted is essentially exactly what I said.

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the
other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot
serve God and mammon.
Christianity. Matthew 6.24 "

That says that if your love is money instead of God, you are serving the wrong master. It doesn't say that wealth is wrong. Pretty much the same for the other quotes you made.

Like many religions, the teachings of Christ promotes living as simple and as loving a life possible. Wealth and material goods can lead you down the wrong path.

Michael

 

[smashp]

My Aunt is a good christian, a feel I am Too. She fully Supports GWB.

But if I question the Actions or motives of our current President, Her reply is usually

"How could you say that or talk like that, Bush is a good christian man"

 

[Isla]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
I am going to hell, who is coming with me?

Klixxer my dear, I believe we are already there...

(looks around, sees the state of the world, and sheds a tear)

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Michael
Infohawk - Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The scripture you quoted is essentially exactly what I said.

"Essentially exactly" :roll: Nice fudging.

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the
other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot
serve God and mammon.
Christianity. Matthew 6.24 "

That says that if your love is money instead of God, you are serving the wrong master. It doesn't say that wealth is wrong.

Bwaahahahahahahhaha. What part of OR don't you understand? Reading comprehension problems there, Michael?

he will be devoted to the one and despise the other

What part of this don't you understand? There are two options: either you will be devoted to money, or you will be devoted to God. There's no in between.

Like many religions, the teachings of Christ promotes living as simple and as loving a life possible. Wealth and material goods can lead you down the wrong path.

Enhhhh. WRONG. They WILL lead you down the wrong path.

Pretty much the same for the other quotes you made.

Uhhh yeah. :roll:

Please find something in the new testament that ACTUALLY says it's okay to be rich. Your spin is BS. Do whatever you have to convince yourself you're a christian. You're a mammonist. Accept it.

 

[Todd33]

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24).

Ya, Jesus, the peasant, loved rich people and fought for their causes and tax cuts.

 

[piasabird]

Everytime you speak out against christianity or religion in general you invite every christian on earth to anwer your rant. A person's beleifs do not make them bad or good. Many churches can do a lot of good in society and do just that. Brigham Young was one of the best organizers and settlers in the northwest and his statue is in the rotunda.

Everyone has different values and beleifs. I feel similarly when I am forced to accept some ignorant and destructive Gay Rights Activist forcing his beliefs down my throat.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Everytime you speak out against christianity or religion in general you invite every christian on earth to anwer your rant. A person's beleifs do not make them bad or good. Many churches can do a lot of good in society and do just that. Brigham Young was one of the best organizers and settlers in the northwest and his statue is in the rotunda.

Everyone has different values and beleifs. I feel similarly when I am forced to accept some ignorant and destructive Gay Rights Activist forcing his beliefs down my throat.

I think so-called Christians should stop calling themselves christians since most tend to worship mammon instead of follow Jesus' path.

Everyone has different values and beleifs.

Interesting that it's so called Christians who attack other people's values all the time. Then when someone questions them they have a fit.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

he will be devoted to the one and despise the other

What part of this don't you understand? There are two options: either you will be devoted to money, or you will be devoted to God. There's no in between.

Like many religions, the teachings of Christ promotes living as simple and as loving a life possible. Wealth and material goods can lead you down the wrong path.

Enhhhh. WRONG. They WILL lead you down the wrong path.
[/quote]
If this is your argument, then Bush is more evil than Kerry. Both are 'Christians,' but Kerry has more money. You don't know wtf you're talking about, so stop bigoting yourself.

Originally posted by: Todd33
Ya, Jesus, the peasant, loved rich people and fought for their causes and tax cuts.

Jesus did love rich people - read the Bible before you mock it. Your blind hatred for Bush has clouded your view on everything.

 

[kage69]

I'd rather not take part in slippery slope fallacies like yours, either.

It's not fallacious, and like it or not, it applies directly to current day politics. The god of Paul told Bush he wants W to be president, remember? :roll:

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: kage69

I'd rather not take part in slippery slope fallacies like yours, either.

It's not fallacious, and like it or not, it applies directly to current day politics. The god of Paul told Bush he wants W to be president, remember? :roll:

So that makes Bush the new King of America? Give me a break.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Todd33

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24).

Ya, Jesus, the peasant, loved rich people and fought for their causes and tax cuts.

1) Jesus loves everyone, rich or poor. I know you don't subscribe to this religion, but I have seen you claim that you understand it more than most followers. I think you have more than proven yourself wrong in this regard.

2) Why is it that some can argue that homosexuality is ok, becasue the bible was written by men and those parts are just silly and wrong, but being rich is obviously evil, becasue the bible is infallible? The bible is often used by both the religious and the non-religious to serve their own beliefs and desires, by citing or disregarding certain parts that agree or disagree with them. This is just another example of this. Way to go!

 

[kage69]

So that makes Bush the new King of America? Give me a break.

Don't be so naive. Bush is a perfect example of someone distorting religion for their own purposes, nothing more.

 

[Diablo6178]

There are a lot of extremes these days on both sides of the Church vs. State issue. Atheists are pushing to get religion out of every facet of public life and there are just as many people of religion pushing to get it back in. As if trying to invent some grandfather clause that since it was there before it should be there now. Neither is right in my view. I think we as a country are given freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion. If you choose to have a religion of nothing so be it, but pulling every bit of religion out of the public spectrum is not the right path. Many Theologies have social and publicly involved activities. The government should not recognize any one religion as a State religion, but it should recognize that religion exists and protect the rights of its citizens to practice it. The U.S. has changed quite a bit in 228 years. Christians were and mostly still are a dominant part of the American population, but that is changing at an ever quickening rate. Fairly soon they might be a minority. The biggest issue with addressing religion is that if you make rules to limit it then those of religion automatically assume they are being persecuted. I.E. Martyr Complex. Much of our problems today need to be met with true compromise instead of heavy handed legislation. Many of the laws we have in regards to all aspects of life need to be reevaluated to bring Freedom back into the American lifestyle. What if I don't want to wear a seatbelt? What if I want to smoke around my child? Etc...

Christianity specifically-
The religion would have a lot more influence and ability to defend itself if it weren't for being so fragmented. Orthodox Christian, Roman Catholic, Non-Denominational, Evangelical, Northern Baptist, Southern Baptist, United Methodist, Mormon, Jehovah Witnesses, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Seventh Day Adventists etc..

All have different views of the Bible or even what is the bible, all have different interpretations of Christ's message and most believe they are the only ones getting into Heaven. It can give you a headache just thinking about it. The war on Christianity would be waged a lot better if it was more organized and the defense would be handled a lot better if it were more organized. At this point you have a lot of factions striking about at this conglomeration that is Christianity and the conglomeration is handling it in a multitude of different ways. The supreme power on earth for Christianity would be the Vatican but even it only represents a small portion of the overall religion, so any statements or decrees made by it don't apply to the rest.

If the war on Christianity is "on", then it?s been "on" since it formed and has been waged for the better part of 1900 years. In the face of that it's grown exponentially in response. The teachings of Mohammed have done the same with a larger following growth in a smaller period of time. Let the war wage on, May the best fighters win.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: kage69

So that makes Bush the new King of America? Give me a break.

Don't be so naive. Bush is a perfect example of someone distorting religion for their own purposes, nothing more.

I'm not being naive - this is what your previous statements claimed and I'm merely refuting it. Bush is just as welcome to his opinions about religion as you are - that doesn't mean he's distorting it.