The Islamic thread

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sultan, what about the allegation by some that Mohammed was a pedophile and had sexual relations with a 9 year old girl? Thanks

The Prophet (S.A) married Hazrat Aisha (R.A), daughter of the closest of his friend Abu Bakr (R.A). The marriage had many implications. The Prophet (S.A) already was highly revered and already had other wives before marry Hazrat Aisha (R.A) and therefore the implication that this marriage was sexually motivated in false. Moreover, he could have his pick of women and neednt have married them if the motivation was such.

Additionally, one cannot determine the mental maturity of Hazrat Aisha (R.A) by simply claiming she was 9 years old. Evidence exists that she had at astounding recollection and memory, and a large volume of Sunnah and Hadith traditions have been quoted by her.

Often the facts are misconstrued by those who have extreme hatred for the religion of Islam, similar to some opponents of Christianity claiming Jesus had indulged in Mary Magdalene (?) and opponents of Judaism claiming Satan slept with Virgin Mary. The truth is far different.

Let me see if i get this straight, Muhammed married a 9 year old girl but as she was mature for her (very young) age it is wrong to say that he did just what he did?

In fact you equate the truth about Muhammeds marriage to an outright lie about something in a different situation (Jesus sleeping with Maria Magdalena or satan sleeping with Maria the virgin)?

You are obviously lost and have nowhere to turn except that one road, the truth, the truth is that Jesus did not sleep with Maria Magdalena and Maria the virgin did not sleep with satan but your highest prophet married a child, no matter how mature you are at age 9 you are a child. IOW your highly regarded prophet was a pedophile.

Remind me again, what is the punishment for pedophilia according to the Koran?

pulled off a website, enjoy reading:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm short version (not too short )
http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm longer

WOW, so he married the child when she was 6 but waited to consumate the marriage until she was 9?

And this is ok since "girls reach puberty sooner than boys"????????

Ok, Sultan, what is the islamic view on marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with 9 year olds?

According to my beliefs it would be punishable by a short lifespan in extreme pain.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sultan, what about the allegation by some that Mohammed was a pedophile and had sexual relations with a 9 year old girl? Thanks

The Prophet (S.A) married Hazrat Aisha (R.A), daughter of the closest of his friend Abu Bakr (R.A). The marriage had many implications. The Prophet (S.A) already was highly revered and already had other wives before marry Hazrat Aisha (R.A) and therefore the implication that this marriage was sexually motivated in false. Moreover, he could have his pick of women and neednt have married them if the motivation was such.

Additionally, one cannot determine the mental maturity of Hazrat Aisha (R.A) by simply claiming she was 9 years old. Evidence exists that she had at astounding recollection and memory, and a large volume of Sunnah and Hadith traditions have been quoted by her.

Often the facts are misconstrued by those who have extreme hatred for the religion of Islam, similar to some opponents of Christianity claiming Jesus had indulged in Mary Magdalene (?) and opponents of Judaism claiming Satan slept with Virgin Mary. The truth is far different.

Let me see if i get this straight, Muhammed married a 9 year old girl but as she was mature for her (very young) age it is wrong to say that he did just what he did?

In fact you equate the truth about Muhammeds marriage to an outright lie about something in a different situation (Jesus sleeping with Maria Magdalena or satan sleeping with Maria the virgin)?

You are obviously lost and have nowhere to turn except that one road, the truth, the truth is that Jesus did not sleep with Maria Magdalena and Maria the virgin did not sleep with satan but your highest prophet married a child, no matter how mature you are at age 9 you are a child. IOW your highly regarded prophet was a pedophile.

Remind me again, what is the punishment for pedophilia according to the Koran?

pulled off a website, enjoy reading:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm short version (not too short )
http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm longer

WOW, so he married the child when she was 6 but waited to consumate the marriage until she was 9?

And this is ok since "girls reach puberty sooner than boys"????????

Ok, Sultan, what is the islamic view on marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with 9 year olds?

According to my beliefs it would be punishable by a short lifespan in extreme pain.

Thankfully your beliefs are not the same as mine.

If you read the links magomago provided, you can find the answer to your second question as well.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
...

You repeatedly try to pull the 'holier-than-thou' act because you're 'Jewish' despite apparently not believing in anything that a real Jew would believe in. Are you culturally Jewish or religiously Jewish? If culturally, you're hardly a representative of the Jewish religion. Let me know when you figure out what your own morals are, then maybe you can talk to me about mine. If you want to have a discussion of ethics rather than morals, let me know - maybe you'll learn something. Unfortunately, I already know you're not interested in anything except getting a few more s before you head back to your hole, so I've just wasted ten seconds of my time.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Do Muslims believe that the Quran is a literal book - that everything in it should be taken at face value? Do different sects believe that it should be strictly literal while others see it differently?

Yes, Muslims believe the Quran is a literal word of God.

Which traditions and mores are taken literally from Muslim texts and which ones aren't?

For example, I understand that beards aren't explicitly mentioned anywhere...

There are four sources of Islamic Law: Quran, Sunnah, Ijma, Qiyas (in order).

Sunnah/Hadith are the actions, words spoken by the Prophet (S.A) which expounds the teachings of the Quran and exemplifies the life of a proper Muslim. Since the Prophet (S.A) kept a beard, many Muslims choose to follow his example and do the same. It is not an obligatory act.

Other laws, for example, prohibition of alcohol is explicitly forbidden in the Quran.

If you wish clarifications of other examples, please feel free to ask.

Now, does this apply to all sects of Islam or just one specifically?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Do Muslims believe that the Quran is a literal book - that everything in it should be taken at face value? Do different sects believe that it should be strictly literal while others see it differently?

Yes, Muslims believe the Quran is a literal word of God.

Which traditions and mores are taken literally from Muslim texts and which ones aren't?

For example, I understand that beards aren't explicitly mentioned anywhere...

There are four sources of Islamic Law: Quran, Sunnah, Ijma, Qiyas (in order).

Sunnah/Hadith are the actions, words spoken by the Prophet (S.A) which expounds the teachings of the Quran and exemplifies the life of a proper Muslim. Since the Prophet (S.A) kept a beard, many Muslims choose to follow his example and do the same. It is not an obligatory act.

Other laws, for example, prohibition of alcohol is explicitly forbidden in the Quran.

If you wish clarifications of other examples, please feel free to ask.

Now, does this apply to all sects of Islam or just one specifically?

Which part? Alcohol or beard? Alcohol's prohibition is explicitly stated in the Quran. No sect differs on it. Some Muslims conform to it, some dont, but thats an issue of conformity, not difference in opinion.

It is good that a Muslim keeps a beard to follow the Sunnah. Some sects place more emphasis on doing the Sunnah, while some place less. In any case, keeping a beard is not obligatory.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: magomago
[Q
pulled off a website, enjoy reading:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm short version (not too short )
http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm longer

WOW, so he married the child when she was 6 but waited to consumate the marriage until she was 9?

And this is ok since "girls reach puberty sooner than boys"????????

Ok, Sultan, what is the islamic view on marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with 9 year olds?

According to my beliefs it would be punishable by a short lifespan in extreme pain.

I've also stated in another thread that the hero of Islam, Mohammad, was a dirty pedophile (among other things). Any man (or woman) that becomes aroused and is able to consummate a marriage with a little girl (or boy) is a mental nutjob and needs therapy and/or a swift death.

I'm always accused of posting biased websites to support my arguments. The sites given as justification for Mohammad's pedophilic adventures are just as bad. They do nothing but give excuses as justificition (sexual maturity, the familes had no objections). I think either Mohammad had a hard time picking up chicks that were his age, or he was just looking for someone to match his level of intelligence.

I also like how the latter site tries to divert attention away from the pedophile and starts to discuss the spread of Islam and the atrocities of the Xian god. What does that have to do with the argument at hand?


Then again, I'm a filthy atheist: what do I know about these types of things...

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
...

Idiot man with an idiotic post.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sultan, what about the allegation by some that Mohammed was a pedophile and had sexual relations with a 9 year old girl? Thanks

The Prophet (S.A) married Hazrat Aisha (R.A), daughter of the closest of his friend Abu Bakr (R.A). The marriage had many implications. The Prophet (S.A) already was highly revered and already had other wives before marry Hazrat Aisha (R.A) and therefore the implication that this marriage was sexually motivated in false. Moreover, he could have his pick of women and neednt have married them if the motivation was such.

Additionally, one cannot determine the mental maturity of Hazrat Aisha (R.A) by simply claiming she was 9 years old. Evidence exists that she had at astounding recollection and memory, and a large volume of Sunnah and Hadith traditions have been quoted by her.

Often the facts are misconstrued by those who have extreme hatred for the religion of Islam, similar to some opponents of Christianity claiming Jesus had indulged in Mary Magdalene (?) and opponents of Judaism claiming Satan slept with Virgin Mary. The truth is far different.

Let me see if i get this straight, Muhammed married a 9 year old girl but as she was mature for her (very young) age it is wrong to say that he did just what he did?

In fact you equate the truth about Muhammeds marriage to an outright lie about something in a different situation (Jesus sleeping with Maria Magdalena or satan sleeping with Maria the virgin)?

You are obviously lost and have nowhere to turn except that one road, the truth, the truth is that Jesus did not sleep with Maria Magdalena and Maria the virgin did not sleep with satan but your highest prophet married a child, no matter how mature you are at age 9 you are a child. IOW your highly regarded prophet was a pedophile.

Remind me again, what is the punishment for pedophilia according to the Koran?

pulled off a website, enjoy reading:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm short version (not too short )
http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm longer

WOW, so he married the child when she was 6 but waited to consumate the marriage until she was 9?

And this is ok since "girls reach puberty sooner than boys"????????

Ok, Sultan, what is the islamic view on marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with 9 year olds?

According to my beliefs it would be punishable by a short lifespan in extreme pain.

Thankfully your beliefs are not the same as mine.

If you read the links magomago provided, you can find the answer to your second question as well.

I would care to know why you deflecting the question instead answering it. Quite simply do you agree with marrying a 6yr old girl and having sex with 9yr olds

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sultan, what about the allegation by some that Mohammed was a pedophile and had sexual relations with a 9 year old girl? Thanks

The Prophet (S.A) married Hazrat Aisha (R.A), daughter of the closest of his friend Abu Bakr (R.A). The marriage had many implications. The Prophet (S.A) already was highly revered and already had other wives before marry Hazrat Aisha (R.A) and therefore the implication that this marriage was sexually motivated in false. Moreover, he could have his pick of women and neednt have married them if the motivation was such.

Additionally, one cannot determine the mental maturity of Hazrat Aisha (R.A) by simply claiming she was 9 years old. Evidence exists that she had at astounding recollection and memory, and a large volume of Sunnah and Hadith traditions have been quoted by her.

Often the facts are misconstrued by those who have extreme hatred for the religion of Islam, similar to some opponents of Christianity claiming Jesus had indulged in Mary Magdalene (?) and opponents of Judaism claiming Satan slept with Virgin Mary. The truth is far different.

Let me see if i get this straight, Muhammed married a 9 year old girl but as she was mature for her (very young) age it is wrong to say that he did just what he did?

In fact you equate the truth about Muhammeds marriage to an outright lie about something in a different situation (Jesus sleeping with Maria Magdalena or satan sleeping with Maria the virgin)?

You are obviously lost and have nowhere to turn except that one road, the truth, the truth is that Jesus did not sleep with Maria Magdalena and Maria the virgin did not sleep with satan but your highest prophet married a child, no matter how mature you are at age 9 you are a child. IOW your highly regarded prophet was a pedophile.

Remind me again, what is the punishment for pedophilia according to the Koran?

pulled off a website, enjoy reading:

http://bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm short version (not too short )
http://www.muslim-answers.org/aishah.htm longer

WOW, so he married the child when she was 6 but waited to consumate the marriage until she was 9?

And this is ok since "girls reach puberty sooner than boys"????????

Ok, Sultan, what is the islamic view on marrying a 6 year old girl and having sex with 9 year olds?

According to my beliefs it would be punishable by a short lifespan in extreme pain.

Thankfully your beliefs are not the same as mine.

If you read the links magomago provided, you can find the answer to your second question as well.

I would care to know why you deflecting the question instead answering it. Quite simply do you agree with marrying a 6yr old girl and having sex with 9yr olds

I dont understand why I have to repeat the Islamic point of view since the link above has the answer. I am not deflecting it. I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty. Thats what it says in the website. Thats my answer. Thats the Islamic viewpoint.

Hope this helps.

 

[f95toli]

Sorry, but this pedophile thing is just plain silly. Of course I agree that if this kind of marriage was to happen today it would be true but we are talking about something that happened some 1400 years ago.

Marriage at a very early age was (unfortunately) not uncommon back then in all cultures. In about 500 AD the legal age for marriage for women in the Roman empire (which was christian by then) was 12 and marriges were often consummated before puberty.
The minimum age was probably in reality lower for the artisocracy (since marriage was a part of the political life), so the real minimum age is assumed to have been around seven.

Sorry, I can't find a link to this. Read a book.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: f95toli
Sorry, but this pedophile thing is just plain silly. Of course I agree that if this kind of marriage was to happen today it would be true but we are talking about something that happened some 1400 years ago.

Marriage at a very early age was (unfortunately) not uncommon back then in all cultures. In about 500 AD the legal age for marriage for women in the Roman empire (which was christian by then) was 12 and marriges were often consummated before puberty.
The minimum age was probably in reality lower for the artisocracy (since marriage was a part of the political life), so the real minimum age is assumed to have been around seven.

Sorry, I can't find a link to this. Read a book.

Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

 

[dahunan]

So, did Allah also say it was OK to force sex on a 9yr old? that is really weird

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

 

[Bumrush99]

Sultan, did Muslims copy the Jewish custom of not eating pork or other "unclean" animals or is there a different reason? Can Muslims mix milk and meat?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Sultan, did Muslims copy the Jewish custom of not eating pork or other "unclean" animals or is there a different reason? Can Muslims mix milk and meat?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic faiths and therefore have many similarities including (between Judaism and Islam) not eating of pork which is an unclean animal. Muslims can mix milk and meat.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Here's what you said:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

And you also stated thats as the Islamic view. I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Aimster]

Sultan,
First killing your child, now agreeing you can marry a 9 year old.
I have nothing to say. If people wish to believe you fine. Since we are asking questions in this thread:

My Question: Could you please define extremist Muslims? Now could you please describe your views and compare them to those of extremist? Thanks!

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Here's what you said:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

And you also stated thats as the Islamic view. I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong, and I would suggest you read the website to get the Islamic viewpoint. I just wrote one sentence, which also you misinterpreted.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Here's what you said:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

And you also stated thats as the Islamic view. I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong, and I would suggest you read the website to get the Islamic viewpoint. I just wrote one sentence, which also you misinterpreted.

Well, why don't just stated it clearly then. You're still avoiding the issue alltogether and labeled it as my misinterpretation. If Islam viewpoint permit marriage before puberty, where do you, as a moslem stand on the issue. Do you agree with marriage before puberty or not?

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
...

Idiot man with an idiotic post.

:music::music::music:

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Here's what you said:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

And you also stated thats as the Islamic view. I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong, and I would suggest you read the website to get the Islamic viewpoint. I just wrote one sentence, which also you misinterpreted.

Well, why don't just stated it clearly then. You're still avoiding the issue alltogether and labeled it as my misinterpretation. If Islam viewpoint permit marriage before puberty, where do you, as a moslem stand on the issue. Do you agree with marriage before puberty or not?

I dont believe you. Can you read? Please reread:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: rufruf44
Yes, I would agree with you if the scope is limited in the past. But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty. Big difference there.

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Here's what you said:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

And you also stated thats as the Islamic view. I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, you are wrong, and I would suggest you read the website to get the Islamic viewpoint. I just wrote one sentence, which also you misinterpreted.

Well, why don't just stated it clearly then. You're still avoiding the issue alltogether and labeled it as my misinterpretation. If Islam viewpoint permit marriage before puberty, where do you, as a moslem stand on the issue. Do you agree with marriage before puberty or not?

I dont believe you. Can you read? Please reread:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

Ok, first I stated:

But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty

and you accuse me of lying:

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

Then I stated:

I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

which you answer:

Well, you are wrong,

So, you're the one that been avoiding the issue. Now do correct me where am I wrong, when I stated you as a moslem believes in marriage before puberty. Especially after you reinstated your agreement with the what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry before puberty.

I don't see what the problem is, if you as a moslem agree with marriage before puberty just said yes, if not said no, instead of going round and round like this.

 

[kotss]

Originally posted by: Sultan
"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

Way to go Sultan. I personally salute you. You are standing by the teachings of your faith as you are understanding them.
Would it be fair to say that you follow the teachings of your faith?
Does this mean that you personally would marry a girl/woman who is at puberty (not before)?
I think intelligence does play some role in the way that you follow the teachings of your faith and use
some form of critical thinking in deciding what is meant by the teachings.
Just because it is stated that males and females can be married at puberty does not mean it is
COMMONPLACE now. I have not said that it is not happening. Not knowing, I would guess that if it does
happen it happens seldomly.

It seems that some of the people involved in this entire thread are about finding wrongs as compared to
their own cultural / religious beliefs. THis thread was started as an attemp to open discussion of Islamic
teachings. Lets not let it denegrate into religious warfare. If you have a problem with the teachings of
a faith, fine! Do not let it become personal!
Do not assume that all teachings are necessarily carried out as written.

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."
An example, just because it says you can be married at puberty does not mean it has to be at puberty.
It could be years afterward, just not before. (Read the word eligible.)

Sultan do you agree?
If you do not, please let me know why.

 

[Sultan]

rufruf44

I say:

"I agree with what Islam says that males and females are eligible to marry at puberty."

you say:

But as Sultan stated in the post above yours, he agree with marriage before puberty

I ask you:

What you lying for? Did you not read my post?

you again state:

I interpret it as you agree with marriage before puberty. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

to which I again say

Well, you are wrong,

Now if you can STILL not understand what I said initially, which is the statement I stand by, I dont know why I am bothering to make my point get across to you.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: f95toli
Sorry, but this pedophile thing is just plain silly. Of course I agree that if this kind of marriage was to happen today it would be true but we are talking about something that happened some 1400 years ago.

Marriage at a very early age was (unfortunately) not uncommon back then in all cultures. In about 500 AD the legal age for marriage for women in the Roman empire (which was christian by then) was 12 and marriges were often consummated before puberty.
The minimum age was probably in reality lower for the artisocracy (since marriage was a part of the political life), so the real minimum age is assumed to have been around seven.

Sorry, I can't find a link to this. Read a book.

Yup...it was probably not that uncommon back in the day.

But I guess if you're looking from a perspective of the man being a holy figure then it might be strange.

I'm also curious and it's interesting to see Sultan dodging the question that rufruf44 is asking and seeing Sultan clearly violate some terms of his own faith.