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Once again this election will prove racism is a white Republican problem. 2008, 2012 and now 2020

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fskimospy said:
To be clear they appear to support mental health checks for the purchase of a gun, they just oppose eliminating the incredibly easy means by which a mentally ill person could evade that check.

Really though, who cares what the NRA thinks, even conservatives? It turned out that they have been stealing their donors' money by the fistfuls for years, laughing at them all the way. If I had ever donated to them I would be incredibly pissed.
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The NRA is a sham, IMO

www.npr.org

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals

Emails and interviews detail the extent to which the National Rifle Association helped two of Moscow's agents ahead of the election, Senate Finance Committee Democrats say.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
blackangst1 said:
Good. Then logically you must agree one is safer with a gun with training. In fact, more so with my opinion that if there is a gun in the house everyone in the house should have proper training.

More training, less accidents. I realize accidental shootings are rare, but a life is a life.
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Absolutely not. One is safer with a gun and training vs only having a gun and no training. But having a gun in most circumstances makes you less safe than having no gun in the home.

The first fundamental flaw in most cases about having a weapon for self defense is the assumption you will always be responsible with the gun. You will never handle gun while disoriented, drunk, ill, depressed, angry, senile, afraid, etc.

The second flaw is most never take into account the reactions of others. Can others get access to your weapon, will you be misidentified as an armed bad guy by the police or another good guy with a gun
 
Paratus said:
Absolutely not. One is safer with a gun and training vs only having a gun and no training. But having a gun in most circumstances makes you less safe than having no gun in the home.

The first fundamental flaw in most cases about having a weapon for self defense is the assumption you will always be responsible with the gun. You will never handle gun while disoriented, drunk, ill, depressed, angry, senile, afraid, etc.

The second flaw is most never take into account the reactions of others. Can others get access to your weapon, will you be misidentified as an armed bad guy by the police or another good guy with a gun
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I addressed this in post 96.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Wonder when #MoscowMitch is gonna take up the bipartisan House bill from 2019 WRT to Background checks.
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Oh, HR8? I hope it dies on the vine, personally.

edit: Ill explain. Its useless law. We have two problems. First, we dont have any useful federal gun crime staistics newer than about 10 years. Most the statistics are state. Second, lets take New York. They require a background check through a licensed FFD for private gun sales. Did it slow anything down? Number of NYC shootings in 2020 close to totals for same period in past two years combined

According to last federal statistics, the majpority of gun crime is committed by illegally obtained guns. So another law just affects legal gun owners, which Im against.

Is that effective in your opinion?
 
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blackangst1 said:
Oh, HR8? I hope it dies on the vine, personally.

edit: Ill explain. Its useless law. We have two problems. First, we dont have any useful federal gun crime staistics newer than about 10 years. Most the statistics are state. Second, lets take New York. They require a background check through a licensed FFD for private gun sales. Did it slow anything down? Number of NYC shootings in 2020 close to totals for same period in past two years combined

According to last federal statistics, the majpority of gun crime is committed by illegally obtained guns. So another law just affects legal gun owners, which Im against.

Is that effective in your opinion?
Click to expand...

My opinion is that gun violence is a problem made worse by the sheer number of guns available. So not really, I still support back ground checks, and I also support federal adn state government rebates (and or tax credits) for people who spend money properly securing their weapons so thieves can't get at them.

I do think it's funny how you always go to NYC, but don't post PHX numbers 🙂
 
blackangst1 said:
See my edit please
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Your edit doesn't change my post though. HR 8 is dead at the Senate. And frankly, I surprised that got any R's in the house to vote for it.

Bottom line, R's are fine with the gun deaths we have. They don't try to change it, it is what it is.
 
Guys, it's all just a bizarre coincidence that Republican leaders have questioned the Constitutional eligibility of every major party nominee for President or VP who was also African American. Besides, everyone knows the real racists are the Democrats who keep dividing America along racial lines by running these highly qualified candidates.
 
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ch33zw1z said:
My opinion is that gun violence is a problem made worse by the sheer number of guns available. So not really, I still support back ground checks, and I also support federal adn state government rebates (and or tax credits) for people who spend money properly securing their weapons so thieves can't get at them.

I do think it's funny how you always go to NYC, but don't post PHX numbers 🙂
Click to expand...

I think for the most part we agree on the main points:

1. gun violence is a problem. I agree, but believe the reason lies with 1. lack of training, and 2. lthe stigma of mental health. Fact is, if we could Thanos away half the guns, the largest proponents of gun violence will stiff be those obtained illegally, and would provide no affect to legal gun owners without including my 2 points.

2. I still support back ground checks. I, and the NRA, agree (BTW Im not a member FWIW).

3. I also support federal adn state government rebates (and or tax credits) for people who spend money properly securing their weapons so thieves can't get at them.. Again, I agree, going back to my point of training and education.

So, the bottom line is, like it or not, we agree on more than we disagree, and neither party has the solutions. They have half measures which are worthless.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Your edit doesn't change my post though. HR 8 is dead at the Senate. And frankly, I surprised that got any R's in the house to vote for it.

Bottom line, R's are fine with the gun deaths we have. They don't try to change it, it is what it is.
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Good. This law would do nothing IRT gun deaths. Its feel good legislation.
 
Vic said:
Guys, it's all just a bizarre coincidence that Republican leaders have questioned the Constitutional eligibility of every major party nominee for President or VP who was also African American. Besides, every knows the real racists are the Democrats who keep dividing America along racial lines by running these highly qualified candidates.
Click to expand...

How dare you comment on-topic! Cant you see this is a 2A thread now?

/s
 
ch33zw1z said:
So you don't support background checks because they're largely ineffective?
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I didnt say that. I dont support private sales to require background checks. Again, this law would only burden legal gun sales, thus legal gun owners. It wont reduce criminal behavior IRT buying or selling a gun. It it burdens legl gun ownership more than the criminal, then no. Im against it.
 
blackangst1 said:
I didnt say that. I dont support private sales to require background checks. Again, this law would only burden legal gun sales, thus legal gun owners. It wont reduce criminal behavior IRT buying or selling a gun. It it burdens legl gun ownership more than the criminal, then no. Im against it.
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Oh well, then it's not feel good legislation, as it serves a function thats important. I think it's pretty obvious what your single issue vote is turning out to be. The other social stuff you dont wanna talk about may or may not even matter.
 
ch33zw1z said:
Oh well, then it's not feel good legislation, as it serves a function thats important. I think it's pretty obvious what your single issue vote is turning out to be. The other social stuff you dont wanna talk about may or may not even matter.
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Why would you support making a constitutional right more difficult to exercise?

edit: and as I said, gun issues are low on the list of federal issue voting. Neither party is going to much fundamentally WRT gun rights so Im not worried. Most gun law takes place on the state level. Thus, I live in AZ (one of the reasons).
 
blackangst1 said:
Why would you support making a constitutional right more difficult to exercise?

edit: and as I said, gun issues are low on the list of federal issue voting. Neither party is going to much fundamentally WRT gun rights so Im not worried. Most gun law takes place on the state level. Thus, I live in AZ (one of the reasons).
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Just wanted a quote of that. The irony is just too delicious.
 
blackangst1 said:
Why would you support making a constitutional right more difficult to exercise?

edit: and as I said, gun issues are low on the list of federal issue voting. Neither party is going to much fundamentally WRT gun rights so Im not worried. Most gun law takes place on the state level. Thus, I live in AZ (one of the reasons).
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I don't think they're low at all. There's two answers I get from conservatives when I ask what they vote for. 2A and religious rights. Included with their religious rights is them also thinking it gives them the right to force their religion on others.

So reasonable steps for gun control aren't your thing. Noted. Also seems to be your single issue.
 
blackangst1 said:
I think for the most part we agree on the main points:

1. gun violence is a problem. I agree, but believe the reason lies with 1. lack of training, and 2. lthe stigma of mental health. Fact is, if we could Thanos away half the guns, the largest proponents of gun violence will stiff be those obtained illegally, and would provide no affect to legal gun owners without including my 2 points.

2. I still support back ground checks. I, and the NRA, agree (BTW Im not a member FWIW).

3. I also support federal adn state government rebates (and or tax credits) for people who spend money properly securing their weapons so thieves can't get at them.. Again, I agree, going back to my point of training and education.

So, the bottom line is, like it or not, we agree on more than we disagree, and neither party has the solutions. They have half measures which are worthless.
Click to expand...

Somehow missed this one during my end of day work stuff.

Where we disagree is whether or not baby steps are worth it or not. (aka half measures). I think they are. Look how even baby steps are approached by R's tho, like a gestapo is gonna kick down your door and take them all. And millions of 'muricans think that's what is gonna happen, that's just how it is. If you think more drastic measures are a better idea, we can disagree there. Baby steps is a good method, but it takes honest from both parties, and we know the R's aren't gonna do that for one of the two single issues them beat the drum for.

And the NRA is a sham organization. They can say whatever they want, it's worthless and their actions speak louder.
 
Vic said:
Guys, it's all just a bizarre coincidence that Republican leaders have questioned the Constitutional eligibility of every major party nominee for President or VP who was also African American. Besides, everyone knows the real racists are the Democrats who keep dividing America along racial lines by running these highly qualified candidates.
Click to expand...
blackangst1 said:
How dare you comment on-topic! Cant you see this is a 2A thread now?

/s
Click to expand...

But do you disagree with Vic? Is it mere coincidence ?
 
ch33zw1z said:
I don't think they're low at all. There's two answers I get from conservatives when I ask what they vote for. 2A and religious rights. Included with their religious rights is them also thinking it gives them the right to force their religion on others.

So reasonable steps for gun control aren't your thing. Noted. Also seems to be your single issue.
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As a Christian, I dont think I have the right to force my beliefs on anyone, and I never have. If it comes up and my opinion is asked, Ill give it. But the Constitution gives me the right to practice as I wish, but not to force it on others.

And,. since we've only been talking the 2A here, youve decided its my single issue? LOL Its one of several. But for federal elections, except for House or Senate positions, gun rights havent altered my opinion of who I vote for. Never for POTUS, despite what righties say about D's (They want to take our guns!!!1111). No. They dont.

Oh and because I dont support background checks on private sales somehow I dont support ANY gun control?
 
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