Once again this election will prove racism is a white Republican problem. 2008, 2012 and now 2020

[ch33zw1z]

Well, there are still a few things that are part of the R platform, and the D platform I support. Certainly not all on either side.

And youre right. The R's havent been fiscally conservative for decades. I wish they would though as thats my belief. Our government doesnt have an income problem, it has a spending one.

And I say all this fully knowing Im going to get blasted on each point so bring it on. Not that *my* personal beliefs really matter to anyone here.

I dont see any other points tho. The D's have a much more diversely affiliated supporters. With R's, you know their game plan all along.

 

[soulcougher73]

Yeah but remember the parties (Dem and GOP) swapped stances awhile ago!

Correct. That is why the current GOP is the racist party. I care about current politics, not 160 years ago that some Dems were racist.

 

[blackangst1]

I dont see any other points tho. The D's have a much more diversely affiliated supporters. With R's, you know they're game plan all along.

The problem though is, for example, if I say in regards to the 2A, that in many places in the US gun laws are too restrictive, all of a sudden people (like many on this board) think I have no problem with people shooting up the place like the wild west. The problem with that argument is the word "people". Thats who is shooting up the place, not guns. I believe in personal responsibility. We've learned by now restricting guns doesnt have an effect on gun violence (i.e. Chicago).Along with lessening gun laws, I also believe one must go through a gun safety course, for every person in a household where guns sit. Also, since 2A and non restrictive gun laws are primarily an R issue, many think I somehow believe everything on the R side is awesome. Which is wrong.

On the other side, I believe in equal rights for all regardless of sexual orientation. With that said, I disagree with the whole I think Im a woman therefore I am. Well, no. Youre still a man.

So you see, I pick and choose what I believe. Some are supported by R's some by D's.

 

[soundforbjt]

The problem though is, for example, if I say in regards to the 2A, that in many places in the US gun laws are too restrictive, all of a sudden people (like many on this board) think I have no problem with people shooting up the place like the wild west. The problem with that argument is the word "people". Thats who is shooting up the place, not guns. I believe in personal responsibility. We've learned by now restricting guns doesnt have an effect on gun violence (i.e. Chicago).Along with lessening gun laws, I also believe one must go through a gun safety course, for every person in a household where guns sit. Also, since 2A and non restrictive gun laws are primarily an R issue, many think I somehow believe everything on the R side is awesome. Which is wrong.

On the other side, I believe in equal rights for all regardless of sexual orientation. With that said, I disagree with the whole I think Im a woman therefore I am. Well, no. Youre still a man.

So you see, I pick and choose what I believe. Some are supported by R's some by D's.

You know why tight gun restrictions don't work in Chicago? Because all the states right next to it have lax laws.

 

[fskimospy]

The problem though is, for example, if I say in regards to the 2A, that in many places in the US gun laws are too restrictive, all of a sudden people (like many on this board) think I have no problem with people shooting up the place like the wild west. The problem with that argument is the word "people". Thats who is shooting up the place, not guns. I believe in personal responsibility. We've learned by now restricting guns doesnt have an effect on gun violence (i.e. Chicago).Along with lessening gun laws, I also believe one must go through a gun safety course, for every person in a household where guns sit. Also, since 2A and non restrictive gun laws are primarily an R issue, many think I somehow believe everything on the R side is awesome. Which is wrong.

On the other side, I believe in equal rights for all regardless of sexual orientation. With that said, I disagree with the whole I think Im a woman therefore I am. Well, no. Youre still a man.

So you see, I pick and choose what I believe. Some are supported by R's some by D's.

I hope you realize that the actual empirical evidence shows the opposite - that declining gun ownership is associated with a decline in homicide and suicide of all kinds. Also, few gun deaths are by the sort of accidents that a safety course would prevent. If you want to argue that we shouldn’t restrict gun ownership that’s fine, but you should at least acknowledge it would reduce deaths because that’s what the science says.

The main issue with gun control in America is that it needs a federal answer. There is nothing a municipality can do to actually effectively limit the number of guns in it as they can just be imported from other states.

 

[blackangst1]

I hope you realize that the actual empirical evidence shows the opposite - that declining gun ownership is associated with a decline in homicide and suicide of all kinds. Also, few gun deaths are by the sort of accidents that a safety course would prevent. If you want to argue that we shouldn’t restrict gun ownership that’s fine, but you should at least acknowledge it would reduce deaths because that’s what the science says.

Im aware 60% of gun deaths are suicide. What Americans need is to de-stigmatize mental health so those who are suicidal feel more comfortable getting help. That would save more lives than making them choose another method of self harm. And education WOULD lower the deaths by accident. I dont know how you could think it wouldnt. Also, Japan is one of the most restrictive countries, yet their suicide rate is almost double that of the US. Just by things other than guns.

edit: http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm#:~:text=There are roughly 32,000 gun deaths per year,About 3% are accidental deaths (less than 1,000).

2,200 Gun Homicides Per Year Beyond Gangs
The 2,200 figure is perhaps the most relevant of all gun statistics in the gun control debate given that the gun control laws are specifically targeted to this segment. If the government were interested in stopping gangs - and as a result also stopping the major contributor of gun violence - the gun laws would be more targeted. Yet most gun control legislation would do little-to-nothing to slow the growing gang problem. Most of the gun laws are aimed at a segment of the population that is mostly law-abiding and outside of the gang culture and would likely do little to stop any of the violence.

The main issue with gun control in America is that it needs a federal answer. There is nothing a municipality can do to actually effectively limit the number of guns in it as they can just be imported from other states.

We have a federal answer. Its called the 2nd Amendment.

 

[fskimospy]

Im aware 60% of gun deaths are suicide. What Americans need is to de-stigmatize mental health so those who are suicidal feel more comfortable getting help. That would save more lives than making them choose another method of self harm. And education WOULD lower the deaths by accident. I dont know how you could think it wouldnt.

1) It also increases homicides.
2) Yes, improved mental health would help but ALL suicide prevention groups agree access to lethal means is a risk factor for suicide and guns are by far the most effective.
3) It’s not that accidents don’t exist, just that they don’t comprise a major fraction of gun deaths. So sure, train away, but this is no solution to our gun death problem.

We have a federal answer. Its called the 2nd Amendment.

Looks like it’s doing a pretty bad job considering the huge number of deaths each year. When something does a bad job we should change it.

 

[blackangst1]

1) It also increases homicides.
2) Yes, improved mental health would help but ALL suicide prevention groups agree access to lethal means is a risk factor for suicide and guns are by far the most effective.
3) It’s not that accidents don’t exist, just that they don’t comprise a major fraction of gun deaths. So sure, train away, but this is no solution to our gun death problem.


Looks like it’s doing a pretty bad job considering the huge number of deaths each year. When something does a bad job we should change it.

See my edits.

 

[fskimospy]

See my edits.

Japan has cultural issues around suicide that our culture does not. A better way to compare is risk of completed suicide within the US for households with a gun vs. without. It is way, way higher for those with a gun so yes, restricting guns would save a lot of lives.

If you’re interested in the science I’ve posted before I can link it again. It’s not ambiguous. Buying a gun makes you more likely to die, period. Both from killing yourself and from someone killing you.

 

[blackangst1]

Japan has cultural issues around suicide that our culture does not. A better way to compare is risk of completed suicide within the US for households with a gun vs. without. It is way, way higher for those with a gun so yes, restricting guns would save a lot of lives.

If you’re interested in the science I’ve posted before I can link it again. It’s not ambiguous. Buying a gun makes you more likely to die, period. Both from killing yourself and from someone killing you.

Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Im seeing root causes of suicide in Japan are probably similar to the US"

As of 2020, the leading motive, with 49% of suicides was "Health issues". However because the category for health issues includes both mental (e.g., depression) and physical issues, it is not not possible to distinguish between the two.

The second most commonly listed motive for suicides was "Financial/Poverty related issues" (e.g., Too much debt, Poverty), which was a motive in 17% of suicides.

The third motive is "Household issues" (e.g., disagreements in the family) listed in 15% of suicides.

Fourth on the list are "Workplace issues" (e.g., work relationships) with 10% of suicides listing it as a reason.

The last two major categories are "Relationship issues" at 4% (e.g., heartbreak), "School" at 2% (e.g., not achieving the results you were aiming for) then lastly "other", at 10%



But more importantly, all these suicides, in regards to guns, were done with means other than guns. My point is, strict gun laws will not significantly reduce firearm gun suicides. Period.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Im seeing root causes of suicide in Japan are probably similar to the US"

As of 2020, the leading motive, with 49% of suicides was "Health issues". However because the category for health issues includes both mental (e.g., depression) and physical issues, it is not not possible to distinguish between the two.

The second most commonly listed motive for suicides was "Financial/Poverty related issues" (e.g., Too much debt, Poverty), which was a motive in 17% of suicides.

The third motive is "Household issues" (e.g., disagreements in the family) listed in 15% of suicides.

Fourth on the list are "Workplace issues" (e.g., work relationships) with 10% of suicides listing it as a reason.

The last two major categories are "Relationship issues" at 4% (e.g., heartbreak), "School" at 2% (e.g., not achieving the results you were aiming for) then lastly "other", at 10%



But more importantly, all these suicides, in regards to guns, were done with means other than guns. My point is, strict gun laws will not significantly reduce firearm gun suicides. Period.

It's good that you want to lessen the stigma around mental health issues, I'm assuming that's something you understand that Democrats want to do, especially in regards to the 2A.

 

[fskimospy]

Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Im seeing root causes of suicide in Japan are probably similar to the US"

As of 2020, the leading motive, with 49% of suicides was "Health issues". However because the category for health issues includes both mental (e.g., depression) and physical issues, it is not not possible to distinguish between the two.

The second most commonly listed motive for suicides was "Financial/Poverty related issues" (e.g., Too much debt, Poverty), which was a motive in 17% of suicides.

The third motive is "Household issues" (e.g., disagreements in the family) listed in 15% of suicides.

Fourth on the list are "Workplace issues" (e.g., work relationships) with 10% of suicides listing it as a reason.

The last two major categories are "Relationship issues" at 4% (e.g., heartbreak), "School" at 2% (e.g., not achieving the results you were aiming for) then lastly "other", at 10%



But more importantly, all these suicides, in regards to guns, were done with means other than guns. My point is, strict gun laws will not significantly reduce firearm gun suicides. Period.

False. The science says the exact opposite.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744

Rates of suicide by any method were higher among handgun owners, with an adjusted hazard ratio of 3.34 for all male owners as compared with male nonowners (95% confidence interval [CI], 3.13 to 3.56) and 7.16 for female owners as compared with female nonowners (95% CI, 6.22 to 8.24). These rates were driven by much higher rates of suicide by firearm among both male and female handgun owners, with a hazard ratio of 7.82 for men (95% CI, 7.26 to 8.43) and 35.15 for women (95% CI, 29.56 to 41.79).

 

[blackangst1]

It's good that you want to lessen the stigma around mental health issues, I'm assuming that's something you understand that Democrats want to do, especially in regards to the 2A.

Yes, along with tightening restrictions around firearms. Which Im against. And all their efforts of banning "assault rifles" (which no one can seem to agree what those are) which will do very little to curb violence. Its just feel good legislation. Even pistols are used more commonly in mass shootings.

 

[blackangst1]

False. The science says the exact opposite.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744

um...

Handgun Ownership and Suicide in California

 

[fskimospy]

um...

Handgun Ownership and Suicide in California

Exactly what do you think the problem is there?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, along with tightening restrictions around firearms. Which Im against. And all their efforts of banning "assault rifles" (which no one can seem to agree what those are) which will do very little to curb violence. Its just feel good legislation. Even pistols are used more commonly in mass shootings.

You know it can be both. Voting for R is neither, and just accepting that gun deaths march on

 

[blackangst1]

Exactly what do you think the problem is there?

It has nothing to do with my point:
1. Japan's suicide rate is twice that of the US per capita, with no guns.
2. The reason behind most suicides in Japan are similar to those in the US.
3. Eliminating guns in America wont significantly cause the largest loss of life from suicide to go down (people will find a way)
4. A study about gun suicides in California is irrelevant

The only point I give you is that if a firearm is in the house its the easiest way out for those wanting to die.

 

[fskimospy]

It has nothing to do with my point:
1. Japan's suicide rate is twice that of the US per capita, with no guns.
2. The reason behind most suicides in Japan are similar to those in the US.
3. Eliminating guns in America wont significantly cause the largest loss of life from suicide to go down (people will find a way)
4. A study about gun suicides in California is irrelevant

The only point I give you is that if a firearm is in the house its the easiest way out for those wanting to die.

Why is a study about gun suicides in California irrelevant? Are you nuts?

 

[blackangst1]

You know it can be both. Voting for R is neither, and just accepting that gun deaths march on

Can you name one thing that involves risk of injury or death that more training would lesson the chance of injury or death? I mean, anything?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Well, there are still a few things that are part of the R platform, and the D platform I support. Certainly not all on either side.

And youre right. The R's havent been fiscally conservative for decades. I wish they would though as thats my belief. Our government doesnt have an income problem, it has a spending one.

And I say all this fully knowing Im going to get blasted on each point so bring it on. Not that *my* personal beliefs really matter to anyone here.

The problem with being fiscally conservative is that it's never in your electibility interest.

Thus Republicans do half the job of reducing the taxes, but not the most important part of reducing the spending.

I mean, just on the face of it - when you give someone a cookie (budget), they are going to kick and scream when you try to take that cookie away. Doesn't matter who it is, because it's against their interest. This is the biggest problem with government - because trimming fat is directly against the interest. Government groups will deliberately spend money just so it looks like they use the budget to its fullest extent to give the illusion that it is needed.


We can't even get a fucking military reduction for christ sakes. No one on the left or right will touch it. I've only ever heard that out of the mouths of libertarians.

 

[blackangst1]

Why is a study about gun suicides in California irrelevant? Are you nuts?

In regards to my points? Yes.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Can you name one thing that involves risk of injury or death that more training would lesson the chance of injury or death? I mean, anything?

Sure, plenty. I'm sure you know that tho. Not sure how exactly that applies to my statement.

 

[fskimospy]

In regards to my points? Yes.

Why?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I mean, I haven't even responded to your transgenderphobia

 

[blackangst1]

Why?

A study in CA has nothing to do with:

1. Japan's suicide rate is twice that of the US per capita, with no guns.
2. The reason behind most suicides in Japan are similar to those in the US.
3. Eliminating guns in America wont significantly cause the largest loss of life from suicide to go down (people will find a way)