I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[eelw]

I really need an economist to break it down. Why do people always say Trumpity Dumpity is better for the economy? Deregulation and tariffs is a platform for a strong economy??? Wall Street has show its immune to the negative effects of his tariffs. And deregulation has only helped a few dirty energy sectors Again if he takes credit for the record highs. He takes the blame for 40 million unemployed.

 

[K1052]

Why do people always say Trumpity Dumpity is better for the economy?

Because he's a very effective bullshit artist who has papered over his inherited wealth, enormous business failures, and likely sub market returns to present a gold plated facade of self made success. The Apprentice also helped immeasurably influence the the easily bamboozled since nobody knows how TV actually works.

 

[Jhhnn]

An enormously under appreciated truth of this race is how remarkably stable it has been. This is absolutely not 2016. If you're an incumbent with poor approvals, are rampantly distrusted, and like 90% of the country is dissatisfied you need to see some more volatility to really think you've got a good shot. It doesn't exist so far.

View attachment 28159

Agreed. Polling in critical swing states is much the same. Barring some miracle, Trump lost the election back in April.

 

[K1052]

Agreed. Polling in critical swing states is much the same. Barring some miracle, Trump lost the election back in April.

Granted that a lot of the swing state polling is tighter but I presume an incumbent R president would like to be able to show a sustained lead in any of them instead of having to duke it out over Texas which looks inside margin of error. Anybody who thinks this is a great place for him to be at is fooling themselves.

 

[Jhhnn]

Granted that a lot of the swing state polling is tighter but I presume an incumbent R president would like to be able to show a sustained lead in any of them instead of having to duke it out over Texas which looks inside margin of error. Anybody who thinks this is a great place for him to be at is fooling themselves.

The lack of uncertainty is very bad for Trump. He won't win back Biden voters. There's none of the fatal "She'll win anyway" sentiment of 4 years ago, either.

 

[Mai72]

The lack of uncertainty is very bad for Trump. He won't win back Biden voters. There's none of the fatal "She'll win anyway" sentiment of 4 years ago, either.

Four years ago we really didn't know what kind of president Trump nwould be. And Hillary was a very poor choice. She came off as uncaring, static person with very little emotion. Also, she brought a TON of baggage with her. Well it's been 4 years later and we know Trump much better. We know what we are going to get for another 4 years if he is POTUS. His track record speaks for itself. IMO, it sucks. His die hard fans will always vote Trump. They have such a disdain for regular politicans that they'd never vote any other way. The independents are the key. I'm an independent, and I'm in no way in hell voting for that orange buffon. Independents will decide who is the next POTUS.

 

[Moonbeam]

Because he's a very effective bullshit artist who has papered over his inherited wealth, enormous business failures, and likely sub market returns to present a gold plated facade of self made success. The Apprentice also helped immeasurably influence the the easily bamboozled since nobody knows how TV actually works.

I would agree only to the extent that you are describing symptoms, not root causes. American culture is based on the noble liberal idea that all men are created equal and all that equality is supposed to imply lain over a system of market forces and competition. These ideas were a product of enlightenment, a sufficient collection of deeply wise men of advanced self development and moral character to embody them into law, notions without that same character development over time would easily fall pray to the universal human disease of self hate manifest under the more emotionally palatable term 'greed' and the corruption the sociopath and the psychopath breed when infected with it. The deep injustices created by the divine right of kings, we create what we fear, led to a great awakening and a new nation. But the rot of self hate and the neediness created thereby, fear and want, made for a society where one found ones self worth in the color of one's skin, a test to the notion that all men are really created as equals, and an economic system based on that inequality, And then we had this:

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

So now again the serpent of self hate has risen from it's slumber and prowls our land sowing fear, disgust and dread, that the equality of some other person and all the fault of liberals and their ideas of fair play will out competing us for our daily bread humiliating out self entitled egos, taking from us what is our, and ours alone, birthright.

The only way for a self hater to win is to cheat via authoritarian power. The moral coward knows well who will butter his bread because the psychopath is happy to oblige.

We are where we are in my opinion because we have not found a way to transmit deep moral character in our children and I think it is because we are torn as adults by the confusion between deep character and economic cooperativeness. We have put the golden calf before us and worship the wrong things We wear the mask of the fig leaf to hide our shame.

May I suggest then, that no matter how the war goes out there, the kingdom of heaven is within, hidden perhaps, but the ground of our being such that it can never be lost.

Not my words but something I think it helps to believe regarding justice in the world, source unknown to me but likely a Sufi:

"The truth can't be given to any who do not deserve it but can't be kept from any who do."

 

[Brainonska511]

Four years ago we really didn't know what kind of president Trump nwould be.

It was pretty obvious that Trump would be a terrible president.

 

[Mai72]

It was pretty obvious that Trump would be a terrible president.

Yea, many people knew he was going to be a bad president but he was an outsider. I think this was his allure. He was a business man who wasn't a politican. He didn't have politcial experience and for many this was a good thing. Now we know better. Hopefully.

 

[dainthomas]

Four years ago we really didn't know what kind of president Trump nwould be. And Hillary was a very poor choice. She came off as uncaring, static person with very little emotion. Also, she brought a TON of baggage with her. Well it's been 4 years later and we know Trump much better. We know what we are going to get for another 4 years if he is POTUS. His track record speaks for itself. IMO, it sucks. His die hard fans will always vote Trump. They have such a disdain for regular politicans that they'd never vote any other way. The independents are the key. I'm an independent, and I'm in no way in hell voting for that orange buffon. Independents will decide who is the next POTUS.

The baggage was mostly various maliciously contrived fiction from the right. They've hated her since "Hillary care". The fact that they consistently stuck with it for decades somehow lent it an air of legitimacy to those not really paying attention.

And I actually want my president to make decisions in a generally emotionless, logic-based manner so her demeanor didn't put me off at all. But I know that's not how most people decide who they'll vote for.

 

[K1052]

Yea, many people knew he was going to be a bad president but he was an outsider. I think this was his allure. He was a business man who wasn't a politican. He didn't have politcial experience and for many this was a good thing. Now we know better. Hopefully.

I think it's well established at this point that you don't really want an "outsider" in an extremely high stakes role. Many business skills transfer poorly or not at all to high level politics and governance. People say "but he's politician" as if it's a negative about candidate X. What I what to know is if they are any good at their specific profession.

 

[K1052]

The baggage was mostly various maliciously contrived fiction from the right. They've hated her since "Hillary care". The fact that they consistently stuck with it for decades somehow lent it an air of legitimacy to those not really paying attention.

And I actually want my president to make decisions in a generally emotionless, logic-based manner so her demeanor didn't put me off at all. But I know that's not how most people decide who they'll vote for.

Yeah I've got no great love for Hillary but we can't pretend Conservatives didn't spend 30 straight years dedicated to making her into a villain.

 

[TeeJay1952]

It isn't about "Can Joe Do It?" but more: "Can We Do It?"
The big question is are we a free people running our own affairs or or we victims of various political machines.
Who are you?

 

[Muse]

It was pretty obvious that Trump would be a terrible president.

I had no doubt. I knew it would be awful, I dreaded these 4 years and they have completely lived up to that prognostication. Pity the USA if they reelect this pathetic person.

Yeah I've got no great love for Hillary but we can't pretend Conservatives didn't spend 30 straight years dedicated to making her into a villain.

And I never saw it. I still have no hate or disdain for her. Benghazi, the email thing, Bill's impeachment too, were cunning and fundamentally baseless attacks on the Clintons. And what did we get in our last POTUS election? The biggest liar in American history, the birther who will lie to his dying breath.

 

[fskimospy]

I think it's well established at this point that you don't really want an "outsider" in an extremely high stakes role. Many business skills transfer poorly or not at all to high level politics and governance. People say "but he's politician" as if it's a negative about candidate X. What I what to know is if they are any good at their specific profession.

As someone else said you can’t really blame Trump. He said he was going to run the government like a business and he ran it exactly like one of his businesses. Filled with cheating, graft, and chaos until he ran the whole thing into the ground, only to then claim it wasn’t his fault.

That’s probably the dumbest part to me. He wasn’t even a good businessman and he devoted his life to it. Who would think he would be good at this?

 

[ondma]

hahahaha says the closet Republican......we all know what you were hoping......

Wow, you are a mind reader. Maybe you should go on America's Got Talent.
Actually, you are completely wrong about what I want for the election. I really dont understand the obsession by some in this forum that anyone who disapproves of what the democrats do, or thinks Trump winning is still a clear danger, supports him or is a closet republican.

 

[Gabe323]

As someone else said you can’t really blame Trump. He said he was going to run the government like a business and he ran it exactly like one of his businesses. Filled with cheating, graft, and chaos until he ran the whole thing into the ground, only to then claim it wasn’t his fault.

That’s probably the dumbest part to me. He wasn’t even a good businessman and he devoted his life to it. Who would think he would be good at this?

The same people that probably think the As Seen on TV products they see during Fox News commercials are the engine driving our wonderful economy.

 

[fskimospy]

Wow, you are a mind reader. Maybe you should go on America's Got Talent.
Actually, you are completely wrong about what I want for the election. I really dont understand the obsession by some in this forum that anyone who disapproves of what the democrats do is a closet republican.

I don’t think anyone who disapproves is a secret Republican. I do think anyone who thinks the largest lead over an incumbent in the history of scientific polling is a harbinger of doom is probably not thinking super clearly.

Biden’s position right now is probably around the best any candidate could have hoped for. At least currently he’s hitting a grand slam.

 

[Muse]

I don’t think anyone who disapproves is a secret Republican. I do think anyone who thinks the largest lead over an incumbent in the history of scientific polling is a harbinger of doom is probably not thinking super clearly.

Biden’s position right now is probably around the best any candidate could have hoped for. At least currently he’s hitting a grand slam.

The Biden campaign has a surfeit of riches in terms of arguments they should get your vote. Trump will lie because it's all he has. The truth is he's done an incredibly terrible job as president (and that is an understatement!), but he'll continue to claim he's done a fantastic job, arguably the greatest in history. Way beyond pathetic.

The job here is to transition to an administration who can undo the damage and move us forward, and like they're saying, save America's soul. Can it be done? At least the message is right.

 

[fskimospy]

The Biden campaign has a surfeit of riches in terms of arguments they should get your vote. Trump will lie because it's all he has. The truth is he's done a terrible job as president, but he'll continue to claim he's done a fantastic job, arguably the greatest in history. Pathetic. The job here is to transition to an administration who can undo the damage and move us forward, and like they're saying save America's soul. Can it be done? At least the message is right.

I personally think our government is doomed, and likely doomed within my lifetime. That’s still no reason not to try and save it.

 

[Muse]

I personally think our government is doomed, and likely doomed within my lifetime. That’s still no reason not to try and save it.

If the Democrats were as bad as the Republicans I would absolutely have to agree. But they're not at all.

 

[Moonbeam]

I believe that Trump can’t be understood by psychologically unsophisticated people, that is to say, people who do not practice brutal self analysis and merciless self assessment, in short, people who do not know that there is only one enemy in the world that is the source of all the evil we see and feel threatened by, projections of ourselves, our true feelings about ourselves.

To know the real Trump you need to know the false you, because, self ignorance is what we and Trump are. Whoever said, we have met the enemy and he is us could haveno better example to point to as to what that looks like than Trump. He is what a liar in denial looks like. He is the glorification of ego, the Anti-Christ, and archetype that is described by religious text but has nothing really to do with religion. He is what the will to get even for being made to hate himself at a highly developed level looks like. In him the sickest find hope for their own egos, or the utter revulsion we feel for how we are also like him.

Those forms of debased love or contempt disappear for those who experience a return to the natural childlike state of the joy of being.

All of those put downs we endured and had to believe to survive were lies. Trump is what the perfect denial of the false belief they were all true looks like. He lives his life mastering his sick need to make others suffer And pay for the damage done to him. This is why everything he touches dies. He went the way of hate.

 

[fskimospy]

If the Democrats were as bad as the Republicans I would absolutely have to agree. But they're not at all.

I don’t think it matters because the Republicans will doom us anyway. If Biden wins I’m sure he will try and steer us back but he will likely get at most two years of functioning government. At that point Republicans will probably retake at least one house of Congress and set to work sabotaging our country with the hope of retaking the presidency.

More importantly, Trump has proved that the president no longer needs to answer to Congress. Even if Biden doesn’t take full advantage of that someone in the future will.

My prediction is we will be a functional autocracy within the next 20 years. Congress will still be there, they just won’t do anything.

 

[Blackjack200]

If the Democrats were as bad as the Republicans I would absolutely have to agree. But they're not at all.

The Democrats are owned by corporate interests, so even if they're not as bad as Republicans, they are also not going to solve any of the country's problems.

That said, I'm not sure I agree that the government is doomed. I think that inequality can continue to expand, and we will end up with a permanent underclass of people that live like feudal peasants. Little to no access to health care, education, or secure housing, vulnerable to starvation etc. There will continue to be a smaller professional class that live what we consider to be "middle class" lives today, and there will be the elites.

We just witnessed the largest popular uprising in the history of this country beaten back by overwhelmingly powerful police and military forces in a matter of weeks.

 

[ivwshane]

The Democrats are owned by corporate interests, so even if they're not as bad as Republicans, they are also not going to solve any of the country's problems.

That said, I'm not sure I agree that the government is doomed. I think that inequality can continue to expand, and we will end up with a permanent underclass of people that live like feudal peasants. Little to no access to health care, education, or secure housing, vulnerable to starvation etc. There will continue to be a smaller professional class that live what we consider to be "middle class" lives today, and there will be the elites.

We just witnessed the largest popular uprising in the history of this country beaten back by overwhelmingly powerful police and military forces in a matter of weeks.

Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. Declare “both sides“ are bad and then complain about issues one party is causing while the other party is trying to fix.

With voters like you who needs good government!?