I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[nickqt]

Trump isn't going to win. The AIP didn't even opt him on their ballot like they did in 2016.

Trump is the nominee of George Wallace's American Independent Party in California

When voters go to the polls Tuesday in the heavily Democratic state of California, they will see three words next to the name of Donald J. Trump: "Republican, American Independent."

www.cnn.com

If you don't know...

"We are the demographic Trump is appealing to": Whether the establishment likes it or not, white nationalists still power the Trump train - Salon.com

Republicans must now reckon with what it means that their party's nominee "is the darling of white supremacists"

www.salon.com

...

American Independent Party Nominates Rocky De La Fuente for President and Kanye West for Vice-President |

The AIP not supporting Trump is pretty much a guarantee that Trump isn't going to win.

Being generous at most, I think Trump will have 50% of his 2016 pop vote. Most of the votes will probably go to Jo Jorgensen.
Female, white, and not related to HRC.

I am sadden but being generous at most 30% of democrats of who voted for HRC will probably vote for Howie Hawkins.

However, I think the appeal of two other candidates will grow after Repub/Democ hype dies off. LP for weak government with international ties, and GPUS for strong government with international ties.

Is this a serious post?

Donald Trump won't get less than 60 million votes. Either will Biden.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Donald Trump won't get less than 60 million votes. Either will Biden.

I really doubt that.

Both major party candidates are weak, while the two leading minor parties are pretty strong.

Greens in 2012 -> 2016: 469,627 -> 1,457,218
Libertarian in 2012 -> 2016: 1,275,971 -> 4,489,341
Those were with relatively weak candidates btw. Weak messaging, etc.

With how LP/GPUS are really throwing strong punches this year... The duopoly of "The republic is falling cuz the democrats!" and "The democracy is falling cuz the republicans!" bullshit hopefully stops.

 

[nickqt]

I really doubt that.

Both major party candidates are weak, while the two leading minor parties are pretty strong.

Greens in 2012 -> 2016: 469,627 -> 1,457,218
Libertarian in 2012 -> 2016: 1,275,971 -> 4,489,341
Those were with relatively weak candidates btw. Weak messaging, etc.

With how LP/GPUS are really throwing strong punches this year... The duopoly of "The republic is falling cuz the democrats!" and "The democracy is falling cuz the republicans!" bullshit hopefully stops.

Yikes.

Ok then.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Yikes.

Ok then.

Propagate the normalcy! Donate money to Lincoln project! Support your supreme leaders from Republicans and Democrats! Fight amongst yourself as we continue to steal your due wealth! We lower your taxes so we can scoop the trickle and take it for ourselves!

Build back better is fully equal with Make america great again. PAB

 

[ivwshane]

Yikes.

Ok then.

What’s that? You haven’t heard of the strong 3rd party candidate running for president?

Yeah neither has the rest of America.

 

[NostaSeronx]

What’s that? You haven’t heard of the strong 3rd party candidate running for president?

I don't think last time gHWb had much hate against him. There was a strong third party candidate then.

---
Joe Biden has basically thrown the left away. He is going to veto anything left, and sign everything right to get concessions to only support weaker right bills.

He did it once, he did it twice, he will do it again.

For something called affordable, it sure is expensive.
For something called recovery, it sure didn't recover our buying ability.
For something called welfare reform, it sure didn't help support me if I am unemployed.
For something called crime reform, a lot more minorities are going to jail.

Did the problems surprisingly get better, or did they surprisingly get more bad?

I wonder what else the democrats will vote for to get concessions only to weaken the right. Don't mind us getting our local lobbyist paycheck, what the people, oh you mean the poor... we hope they die under a republican. So we can keep this game rolling.

The left will support Howie, and the right will support Jo. If they can't and will not vote for DJT/JRB. These parties have been getting stronger as the problems being permanent fixtures, in which the duopoly leaves behind with full pockets, get worse and worse.

Edit: Ah that fresh brew of preemptively caving to the right. Never tasted so sweet, now off to die in a war, or from a virus, being in poverty, or getting injured voted by Democrats and Republicans.

 

[Brainonska511]

So the platform of the party has become more progressive, progressives got Biden to adopt some of their planks and ideas, but that's somehow caving to the right? GTFO of here

On a related note, I don't think many of the internet progressives screaming about both sides, how Democrats suck, and that somehow we could force single payer on the US understand just how difficult it was just to get the ACA through.

How Nancy Pelosi Saved the Affordable Care Act

In an excerpt from her new book, "Pelosi," Molly Ball explains how the Speaker was the central figure in the passage of Obamacare

time.com

Ideals are important, but let's not lose perspective on how political realities can limit action. That's why there needs to be a continued push to cultivate and elect politicians across all levels of government. Gotta play the long game

 

[ivwshane]

So the platform of the party has become more progressive, progressives got Biden to adopt some of their planks and ideas, but that's somehow caving to the right? GTFO of here

On a related note, I don't think many of the internet progressives screaming about both sides, how Democrats suck, and that somehow we could force single payer on the US understand just how difficult it was just to get the ACA through.

How Nancy Pelosi Saved the Affordable Care Act

In an excerpt from her new book, "Pelosi," Molly Ball explains how the Speaker was the central figure in the passage of Obamacare

time.com

Ideals are important, but let's not lose perspective on how political realities can limit action. That's why there needs to be a continued push to cultivate and elect politicians across all levels of government. Gotta play the long game

“Both sides” bitches don’t care about political realities, they want immediate and perfect solutions. They don’t care that that’s not how our government has been setup, let alone the fact that perfect legislation is rare and compromise is/was the norm.

And quite honestly, after over a decade of republican rule sabotage, I’m ok with that setup.

 

[Starbuck1975]

“Both sides” bitches don’t care about political realities, they want immediate and perfect solutions. They don’t care that that’s not how our government has been setup, let alone the fact that perfect legislation is rare and compromise is/was the norm.

And quite honestly, after over a decade of republican rule sabotage, I’m ok with that setup.

Why aspire to greatness when you can settle for so much less.

 

[hal2kilo]

Why aspire to greatness when you can settle for so much less.

Why try when you can't have perfection.

 

[ewdotson]

Why try when you can't have perfection.

ACA seems like the obvious example. I mean, it's obviously a whole lot less than perfect. I get why people would want a true national health care plan. The transition wouldn't necessarily be easy or straightforward, but every other first-world nation has found a vastly superior solution that works for them - there's no reason we shouldn't be able to as well.

But … ACA is a whole lot better than what we had before and a whole lot better than the GOP's nonexistent-to-actively-destructive plans. There's a lot to be said for helping the folks that we can while moving things in a generally positive direction. Letting people die because we can't instantly have a utopian plan seems very misguided

 

[Starbuck1975]

Why try when you can't have perfection.

Progress doesn’t require perfection, just a vision and a leader capable of getting us there. Neither political party seems capable of providing that.

 

[hal2kilo]

Progress doesn’t require perfection, just a vision and a leader capable of getting us there. Neither political party seems capable of providing that.

Then it's hopeless. Why don't you give up.

 

[fskimospy]

Progress doesn’t require perfection, just a vision and a leader capable of getting us there. Neither political party seems capable of providing that.

‘Vision’ and ‘leadership’ are ways of saying that you want a politician to accomplish things but have absolutely no plausible plan for doing them. It’s vacuous nonsense.

The ACA is a great example - sure it wasn’t perfect but it’s what could get through Congress. What should Obama have done differently? More ‘leadership’? What does that mean, specifically?

 

[feralkid]

Propagate the normalcy! Donate money to Lincoln project! Support your supreme leaders from Republicans and Democrats! Fight amongst yourself as we continue to steal your due wealth! We lower your taxes so we can scoop the trickle and take it for ourselves!

Build back better is fully equal with Make america great again. PAB

Forlorn Hope 2020!

Vive Enfants Perdus!

 

[hal2kilo]

‘Vision’ and ‘leadership’ are ways of saying that you want a politician to accomplish things but have absolutely no plausible plan for doing them. It’s vacuous nonsense.

The ACA is a great example - sure it wasn’t perfect but it’s what could get through Congress. What should Obama have done differently? More ‘leadership’? What does that mean, specifically?

It's like the element unobtanium.

 

[Grey_Beard]

Why aspire to greatness when you can settle for so much less.

Progress doesn’t require perfection, just a vision and a leader capable of getting us there. Neither political party seems capable of providing that.

The part that makes me disappointed with progressives, as I feel that I have very progressive leanings, is that reality is only a speed bump on the way to the promised land. Vision and leadership are nebulous ideas in politics. What you call “leadership” and “vision” in the world is not qualities you would feel strong about supporting in a politician. Where in “vision” is the word compromise? No where. I realize that things take time. Got to row in the right direction to get somewhere. When you start to drive to somewhere you have the “leadership” by being behind the wheel. You have the “vision”to chart the route with or without that GPS assistant. But you do not know where there is an accident, road construction, or just a traffic jam. Progressives think that these things don’t matter, but they do. You will never get to the “destination” without compromising the route to compensate for the issues like construction, accidents or congestion. That is reality, that is how politics work.

It's like the element unobtanium.

At least in the immediacy that they want it in.

 

[Jhhnn]

Progress doesn’t require perfection, just a vision and a leader capable of getting us there. Neither political party seems capable of providing that.

Leadership cult bullshit? Really?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Leadership cult bullshit? Really?

No, just leadership

 

[Starbuck1975]

The part that makes me disappointed with progressives, as I feel that I have very progressive leanings, is that reality is only a speed bump on the way to the promised land. Vision and leadership are nebulous ideas in politics. What you call “leadership” and “vision” in the world is not qualities you would feel strong about supporting in a politician. Where in “vision” is the word compromise? No where. I realize that things take time. Got to row in the right direction to get somewhere. When you start to drive to somewhere you have the “leadership” by being behind the wheel. You have the “vision”to chart the route with or without that GPS assistant. But you do not know where there is an accident, road construction, or just a traffic jam. Progressives think that these things don’t matter, but they do. You will never get to the “destination” without compromising the route to compensate for the issues like construction, accidents or congestion. That is reality, that is how politics work.



At least in the immediacy that they want it in.

I disagree. Our most celebrated Presidents are the ones who were bold, visionary leaders. There is a reason that Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Jefferson and Eisenhower consistently rank in the top 10.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Then it's hopeless. Why don't you give up.

It’s not hopeless, although interesting that you choose to frame it that way

 

[woolfe9998]

I disagree. Our most celebrated Presidents are the ones who were bold, visionary leaders. There is a reason that Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Jefferson and Eisenhower consistently rank in the top 10.

Please define what you mean by your buzzwords "leadership" and "visionary." It's kind of necessary for any serious discussion of past POTUSES you've mentioned, and any sort of comparison/contrast with others.

Sounds to me like you're indulging in cult of personality politics, and ignoring the context in which various POTUSES have governed. For example, prior to the most recent past, POTUSES did not face lockstep opposition to reform from an opposing party determined to use structural measures designed to benefit the minority party to stop the agenda of the party in power. A POTUS cannot conjure votes in Congress just by "leading" harder or "visioning" with moar passion.

 

[woolfe9998]

‘Vision’ and ‘leadership’ are ways of saying that you want a politician to accomplish things but have absolutely no plausible plan for doing them. It’s vacuous nonsense.

The ACA is a great example - sure it wasn’t perfect but it’s what could get through Congress. What should Obama have done differently? More ‘leadership’? What does that mean, specifically?

Exactly.

Many progressives believed this of Obama, particularly in relationship to the ACA not including a public option. Had he just shown more "leadership" and "vision" we would have had a better bill. It's a very American thing, this idea that extraordinary individuals can make all the difference. Which is an odd idea more in line with authoritarianism where the "extraordinary" leader always gets his or her way. We're addicted to this cult of personality idea possibly because of the way we elevate and idealize "celebrity" status in our culture.

 

[Grey_Beard]

I disagree. Our most celebrated Presidents are the ones who were bold, visionary leaders. There is a reason that Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Jefferson and Eisenhower consistently rank in the top 10.

So, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and Eisenhower got every one of their “visions” passed?

Did they remake society or did they lay the foundation of what we have today?

Why did they not get Medicare for All?
Why did they not get free college education for all citizens?
Why did they not get Universal Basic Income?
Why did they not get equality in the races?
Why did they not get a better mental health system?
Why did they not defund the police?
Did they believe in Black Lives Matter?

 

[shortylickens]

Why aspire to greatness when you can settle for so much less.

I am 41. I been watching America all my life. Including watching it from the outside for about 2 years which actually gives you a pretty neat perspective.
"Greatness" is just a buzzword for America.
All the times we were "Great" we had very serious social or economic issues that nobody wanted to acknowledge or correct. It gets politicians elected, because too many of us have nostalgia instead of cold hard critical thinking skills, so the politicians keep using it.
"Greatness" as an abstract concept is fun to talk about, but when we cant even do basic things for our citizens that literally every other developed country has been doing for a long time, you need to step back and look at America realistically. What can we get done with the resources we have? Could we have more resources if huge government contracts werent bloated by corrupt politicians and psychotic corporations? Could we do more if we actually taxed the wealthy at a rate that makes sense?
And if the last 20 years are an indicator, nobody is actually trying for greatness except really sharp businessmen. Everyone else is just trying to get by and hoping the system they dont understand won't collapse on them. We need to stop reaching for the stars when our ground is so unstable.