Do you think healthcare should be mandatory for America?

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: theman
ok, what a great idea! lets get rid of Social Security, and have people put money into non FDIC covered bank accounts!!! YAY! lets go back to 1929! why cant people ever learn from history?
The FDIC is a sham. Something to make you feel comfortable and give you false confidence. Its reserves are considerably less than 1% of deposits. If the banking system ever did go under, the FDIC wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. Must be nice actually believing in free lunches and something for nothing.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: broon
No. Americans should get of their lazy butts and work for it.

that's the problem with you people... you don't realize that "should" doesn't happen and never will. "should" is a fantasy, fairy tale word.... it's utopian. seeing how we live in the real world and need to deal with what's real and not what "should," you might not want to go through life with that kind of mentality.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: eits
yes.... i think that we should have the option of either choosing our own or if we can't afford it, the govt provides it.
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: broon
No. Americans should get of their lazy butts and work for it.

that's the problem with you people... you don't realize that "should" doesn't happen and never will. "should" is a fantasy, fairy tale word.... it's utopian. seeing how we live in the real world and need to deal with what's real and not what "should," you might not want to go through life with that kind of mentality.
I fail to see how your ideal is any less utopian than his ideal.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
So, because they SHOULD get off their lazy asses, but won't, I should foot the bill for them instead. Guess the Robin Hood mentality is nobler, eh? :roll:
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
It's not "Robin Hood," it's "something for nothing." Note the recurring phrases: "Government should provide," "FREE healthcare," etc. They don't seem to realize that government money is their money. A strong disconnect here probably caused by the fact that children under the age of 18 don't pay taxes, so they shouldn't pretend to have an opinion on these matters until they do. Government is not mommy and daddy.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: broon
No. Americans should get of their lazy butts and work for it.

that's the problem with you people... you don't realize that "should" doesn't happen and never will. "should" is a fantasy, fairy tale word.... it's utopian. seeing how we live in the real world and need to deal with what's real and not what "should," you might not want to go through life with that kind of mentality.

In the real world, if you don't work for something, you don't get it. Nothing is free.

In the real world, there are no magical prescription pills that can make the population healthier. One of the presmises to the pro-universal health care argument is that people have a right to good health. However, throwing our financial liberties away for a bunch of prescription drugs is not going to cure anything.

Indeed you do have a right to good health. Get off your ass and take it. It's cheap: quality food and exercise.

So not only does "free" healthcare not solve our health epidemic...if anything it contributes to it. It gives people the mentality that a pill can be a quick fix. Our health problems will get worse, and productivity will go down. Furthermore, the huge tax burdens will slow our economy.
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
32,234
2,554
126
www.theshoppinqueen.com
Originally posted by: TheToOTaLL
No.

I think that the dumbasses that sue doctors and hospitals for stupid reasons should be made to pay for those lawsuits, and then thrown in prision for trying to defraud an industry that's put there to help them in the first place. Do you really think doctors and nurses go to school for decades and pay tens of thousands of dollars for their education just to behave like fast food workers?

I also think that the drug addicts (ie, meth heads, etc) with no insurance that overdose should be turned away and left to fend for themselves. If they think I should have to pay for someone else's stupidity in the long run with even higher costs, think again.

Who's going to foot the bill for all the prison time ?

We pay for all sorts of stupidity, our malpractice system is far from perfect but it offers some checks and balances that help protect health care consumers from health care professionals who probably shouldn't be practicing to begin with.

As for addicts, if you cannot summon any compassion for them, think practically, do you really wish to be murdered in your bed or in the subway on your way home from work by someone desparate for a fix and with no treatment options available to them ?
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
In certain legends of Robin Hood, he took from the rich and gave to the poor, but others had him steal from the king (government), to give back to the peasants. - Text

Most of the Blue State's base constituency are voting for this "free ride", because they don't pay taxes in the first place!
 

GALRLF

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2006
3
0
0
Quote ( People (like me) who buy healthcare in the US never go unless absolutely necessary as my deductibles and co-pays are so frigging high. People who get free healthcare (medicaid and the likes) go to the ER for a splinter or any other little thing. Something seems wrong with that picture, doesn't it?






While you may buy your healthcare , I personally am offended by the remark about Medicaid. My mother , who received Medicaid , actually had to visit a Doctor (not ER) over what started out as , what seemed to be,a simple splinter. The end results was a bacterial infection . If not treated ,the result could have been the loss of her hand or possibly even death. Reconsider what you say before you speak. Who knows, it could have possibly been your own mother.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Ornery
Most of the Blue State's base constituency are voting for this "free ride", because they don't pay taxes in the first place!
That's actually not true. A lot of wealthy "Blue Staters" are very interested in and supportive of the socialist system. To their minds, it helps provide a stable, productive workforce and consumer base that is also kept firmly in its place under the burdens of taxation and regulation. That's really what the socialist system is all about. Bribing and enslaving the people with their own money. In the words of P. J. O'Rourke: "... hay and a barn for human cattle."
 

saahmed

Golden Member
Oct 5, 2005
1,388
1
0
Healthcare should be provided by the government to all Americans provided that they are either under 18, employeed/actively seeking employment, or retired. Of course there would have to be an increase in taxes, but most should not be against them. Also, I believe the health care providers should continue to recieve a good salary unlike Canadian doctors, though nothing too excessive.
 

Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
0
76
Here is the solution to all of this bull

Abolish health insurance companies. Let each individual corporation choose how much money to drop on each employee for health insurance. In the end, the cost of healthcare goes down (because you're no longer fvcking up the entire system with health insurance). Companies will then be required by law do their own health insurance plans to insure employees and to give employees the option of having a portion of their pay cut in order to have better benefits. The basic plan will come free with employment and can include checkups and minor things. Better plans can be more deluxe and comprehensive. Children by default get the same benefits as their parents until the age of 25 or until marriage or until filing taxes as an independent (whichever comes first). This will hopefully make <25 aged people more desirable for employment, which develops skills and whatnot that are important for our nation's development. Requiring children to be kept on their parents' policies until 25 encourages them to go to college. If two parents are employed by 2 different companies, then the parents have the ability to choose which company will be insuring them.

Unemployed individuals will be required to work if they want healthcare or else they'll have to fund it out of their own pocket.

Cliffs
1) Companies will have their own insurance policies independent of 3rd parties
2) All employees get at least minimum coverage with the option of increased coverage with cut pay
3) Children are covered under their parents until 25, marriage, or filing taxes as an independent
4) This results in healthcare costs decreasing by cutting out the middle man; rather than having a board of directors in charge of an insurance company, a corporation need have only one person in charge of their insurance department.
5) ....
6) Profit?
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
4,386
0
0
its so easy for you people to say. as you sit at your computer, and watch tv, and go to your nice office job, and have a nice rich suburban house, and cute family, there are people out there who actually need help. its not their fault that they cant get a job because they are being hunted down by crack dealers trying to murder their families, they cant just say, "hey, you know what, today, im going to be rich!" There are a lot of serious social problems that you just dont seem to understand. hey, lets ban abortion because babies should be loved and taken care of. well, that may be possible for you to do if your daughter got pregnant, but think about the majority of the people that get abortions. a baby just drowns their hopes of ever coming out of poverty. the world isnt just black and white. there are a lot of different kinds of people. not just you.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,622
13,318
136
good idea, impossible to do. let's suposed every american is allotted (sp?) $10k for healthcare. that's $3 trillion for healthcare alone. care to find ways to more than double the budget without pissing every american off? :p

our healthcare might be expensive, but america has the best healthcare in the world for a reason (in terms of quality, not % population covered).
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
0
Originally posted by: theman
its so easy for you people to say. as you sit at your computer, and watch tv, and go to your nice office job, and have a nice rich suburban house, and cute family, there are people out there who actually need help. its not their fault that they cant get a job because they are being hunted down by crack dealers trying to murder their families, they cant just say, "hey, you know what, today, im going to be rich!" There are a lot of serious social problems that you just dont seem to understand. hey, lets ban abortion because babies should be loved and taken care of. well, that may be possible for you to do if your daughter got pregnant, but think about the majority of the people that get abortions. a baby just drowns their hopes of ever coming out of poverty. the world isnt just black and white. there are a lot of different kinds of people. not just you.

Life is tough, buy a helmet, just don't make me pay for it.

Why pay for healthcare for people who contribute very little to society?

Why pay for healthcare for people who don't take care of themselves?

Hunted down by crack dealers? You watch too many movies. Maybe a small handful of people out there live like that, but they got themselves in that situation.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: theman
its so easy for you people to say. as you sit at your computer, and watch tv, and go to your nice office job, and have a nice rich suburban house, and cute family, there are people out there who actually need help. its not their fault that they cant get a job because they are being hunted down by crack dealers trying to murder their families, they cant just say, "hey, you know what, today, im going to be rich!" There are a lot of serious social problems that you just dont seem to understand. hey, lets ban abortion because babies should be loved and taken care of. well, that may be possible for you to do if your daughter got pregnant, but think about the majority of the people that get abortions. a baby just drowns their hopes of ever coming out of poverty. the world isnt just black and white. there are a lot of different kinds of people. not just you.

How much does it cost to go jogging? Lift weights? Eat fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, brought from a grocery? It's cheaper than eating out, eating fast food, junk food, beer and cigarettes. And it's certainly cheaper than having to pay for several prescription drugs that come as side effects of such an unhealthy lifestyle.

Yet, I see many of these poor, helpless people you talk about live the more expensive, unhealthy lifestyle.

They can't even help themselves. They have no right to take away everyone's economic liberty in favor of their selfish lifestyle.

And this may seem like I'm looking down on them. In a way I am. I wouldn't normally do anything like this. But when there's a socialist movement that threatens the economic liberty that makes America great in favor of sheer laziness and greed...I'm not going to back down.

And the whole attempt at guilt was funny. Oh yeah, I'm sitting down in a nice suburban home watching TV and ignoring the social problems of families running away from drug dealers. LOL I'm sitting in a 90 year old apartment building with no AC because I'd rather not go into debt, like every college student seems to be doing these days.

 

SludgeFactory

Platinum Member
Sep 14, 2001
2,969
2
81
Good god, no. How could anyone expect the government to be able to get this even remotely right? This has epic disaster written all over it.

I'm all for more personal responsibility here. The only additional government involvement in healthcare I would support right now is tax incentives for maintaining average or better bodyfat. That's right, you get a reward for not being a fat fvck. People obviously don't give a sh!t about taking care of themselves for health's sake, maybe they will respond to a few hundred dollars on the end of a stick.
 

cdodich

Member
Apr 19, 2005
114
0
0
Well, since the Government runs so many other programs at the height of efficiency and effectiveness...

Ya, like I want them in charge of my healthcare. It is called the least common denominator.
That is what you will get. Just like public schools and TSA. These programs are a joke and our healthcare system will be the next joke.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,522
20,161
146
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue:

Health Care Is Not A Right
by Leonard Peikoff, Ph.D. Delivered at a Town Hall Meeting on the Clinton Health Plan. Red Lion Hotel, Costa Mesa CA. December 11, 1993

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen:

Most people who oppose socialized medicine do so on the grounds that it is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical; i.e., it is a noble idea -- which just somehow does not work. I do not agree that socialized medicine is moral and well-intentioned, but impractical. Of course, it is impractical -- it does not work -- but I hold that it is impractical because it is immoral. This is not a case of noble in theory but a failure in practice; it is a case of vicious in theory and therefore a disaster in practice. So I'm going to leave it to other speakers to concentrate on the practical flaws in the Clinton health plan. I want to focus on the moral issue at stake. So long as people believe that socialized medicine is a noble plan, there is no way to fight it. You cannot stop a noble plan -- not if it really is noble. The only way you can defeat it is to unmask it -- to show that it is the very opposite of noble. Then at least you have a fighting chance.

What is morality in this context? The American concept of it is officially stated in the Declaration of Independence. It upholds man's unalienable, individual rights. The term "rights," note, is a moral (not just a political) term; it tells us that a certain course of behavior is right, sanctioned, proper, a prerogative to be respected by others, not interfered with -- and that anyone who violates a man's rights is: wrong, morally wrong, unsanctioned, evil.

Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all. According to the Founding Fathers, we are not born with a right to a trip to Disneyland, or a meal at Mcdonald's, or a kidney dialysis (nor with the 18th-century equivalent of these things). We have certain specific rights -- and only these.

Why only these? Observe that all legitimate rights have one thing in common: they are rights to action, not to rewards from other people. The American rights impose no obligations on other people, merely the negative obligation to leave you alone. The system guarantees you the chance to work for what you want -- not to be given it without effort by somebody else.

The right to life, e.g., does not mean that your neighbors have to feed and clothe you; it means you have the right to earn your food and clothes yourself, if necessary by a hard struggle, and that no one can forcibly stop your struggle for these things or steal them from you if and when you have achieved them. In other words: you have the right to act, and to keep the results of your actions, the products you make, to keep them or to trade them with others, if you wish. But you have no right to the actions or products of others, except on terms to which they voluntarily agree.

To take one more example: the right to the pursuit of happiness is precisely that: the right to the pursuit -- to a certain type of action on your part and its result -- not to any guarantee that other people will make you happy or even try to do so. Otherwise, there would be no liberty in the country: if your mere desire for something, anything, imposes a duty on other people to satisfy you, then they have no choice in their lives, no say in what they do, they have no liberty, they cannot pursue their happiness. Your "right" to happiness at their expense means that they become rightless serfs, i.e., your slaves. Your right to anything at others' expense means that they become rightless.

That is why the U.S. system defines rights as it does, strictly as the rights to action. This was the approach that made the U.S. the first truly free country in all world history -- and, soon afterwards, as a result, the greatest country in history, the richest and the most powerful. It became the most powerful because its view of rights made it the most moral. It was the country of individualism and personal independence.

Today, however, we are seeing the rise of principled immorality in this country. We are seeing a total abandonment by the intellectuals and the politicians of the moral principles on which the U.S. was founded. We are seeing the complete destruction of the concept of rights. The original American idea has been virtually wiped out, ignored as if it had never existed. The rule now is for politicians to ignore and violate men's actual rights, while arguing about a whole list of rights never dreamed of in this country's founding documents -- rights which require no earning, no effort, no action at all on the part of the recipient.

You are entitled to something, the politicians say, simply because it exists and you want or need it -- period. You are entitled to be given it by the government. Where does the government get it from? What does the government have to do to private citizens -- to their individual rights -- to their real rights -- in order to carry out the promise of showering free services on the people?

The answers are obvious. The newfangled rights wipe out real rights -- and turn the people who actually create the goods and services involved into servants of the state. The Russians tried this exact system for many decades. Unfortunately, we have not learned from their experience. Yet the meaning of socialism (this is the right name for Clinton's medical plan) is clearly evident in any field at all -- you don't need to think of health care as a special case; it is just as apparent if the government were to proclaim a universal right to food, or to a vacation, or to a haircut. I mean: a right in the new sense: not that you are free to earn these things by your own effort and trade, but that you have a moral claim to be given these things free of charge, with no action on your part, simply as handouts from a benevolent government.

How would these alleged new rights be fulfilled? Take the simplest case: you are born with a moral right to hair care, let us say, provided by a loving government free of charge to all who want or need it. What would happen under such a moral theory?

Haircuts are free, like the air we breathe, so some people show up every day for an expensive new styling, the government pays out more and more, barbers revel in their huge new incomes, and the profession starts to grow ravenously, bald men start to come in droves for free hair implantations, a school of fancy, specialized eyebrow pluckers develops -- it's all free, the government pays. The dishonest barbers are having a field day, of course -- but so are the honest ones; they are working and spending like mad, trying to give every customer his heart's desire, which is a millionaire's worth of special hair care and services -- the government starts to scream, the budget is out of control. Suddenly directives erupt: we must limit the number of barbers, we must limit the time spent on haircuts, we must limit the permissible type of hair styles; bureaucrats begin to split hairs about how many hairs a barber should be allowed to split. A new computerized office of records filled with inspectors and red tape shoots up; some barbers, it seems, are still getting too rich, they must be getting more than their fair share of the national hair, so barbers have to start applying for Certificates of Need in order to buy razors, while peer review boards are established to assess every stylist's work, both the dishonest and the overly honest alike, to make sure that no one is too bad or too good or too busy or too unbusy. Etc. In the end, there are lines of wretched customers waiting for their chance to be routinely scalped by bored, hog-tied haircutters some of whom remember dreamily the old days when somehow everything was so much better.

Do you think the situation would be improved by having hair-care cooperatives organized by the government? -- having them engage in managed competition, managed by the government, in order to buy haircut insurance from companies controlled by the government?

If this is what would happen under government-managed hair care, what else can possibly happen -- it is already starting to happen -- under the idea of health care as a right? Health care in the modern world is a complex, scientific, technological service. How can anybody be born with a right to such a thing?

Under the American system you have a right to health care if you can pay for it, i.e., if you can earn it by your own action and effort. But nobody has the right to the services of any professional individual or group simply because he wants them and desperately needs them. The very fact that he needs these services so desperately is the proof that he had better respect the freedom, the integrity, and the rights of the people who provide them.

You have a right to work, not to rob others of the fruits of their work, not to turn others into sacrificial, rightless animals laboring to fulfill your needs.

Some of you may ask here: But can people afford health care on their own? Even leaving aside the present government-inflated medical prices, the answer is: Certainly people can afford it. Where do you think the money is coming from right now to pay for it all -- where does the government get its fabled unlimited money? Government is not a productive organization; it has no source of wealth other than confiscation of the citizens' wealth, through taxation, deficit financing or the like.

But, you may say, isn't it the "rich" who are really paying the costs of medical care now -- the rich, not the broad bulk of the people? As has been proved time and again, there are not enough rich anywhere to make a dent in the government's costs; it is the vast middle class in the U.S. that is the only source of the kind of money that national programs like government health care require. A simple example of this is the fact that the Clinton Administration's new program rests squarely on the backs not of Big Business, but of small businessmen who are struggling in today's economy merely to stay alive and in existence. Under any socialized program, it is the "little people" who do most of the paying for it -- under the senseless pretext that "the people" can't afford such and such, so the government must take over. If the people of a country truly couldn't afford a certain service -- as e.g. in Somalia -- neither, for that very reason, could any government in that country afford it, either.

Some people can't afford medical care in the U.S. But they are necessarily a small minority in a free or even semi-free country. If they were the majority, the country would be an utter bankrupt and could not even think of a national medical program. As to this small minority, in a free country they have to rely solely on private, voluntary charity. Yes, charity, the kindness of the doctors or of the better off -- charity, not right, i.e. not their right to the lives or work of others. And such charity, I may say, was always forthcoming in the past in America. The advocates of Medicaid and Medicare under LBJ did not claim that the poor or old in the '60's got bad care; they claimed that it was an affront for anyone to have to depend on charity.

But the fact is: You don't abolish charity by calling it something else. If a person is getting health care for nothing, simply because he is breathing, he is still getting charity, whether or not President Clinton calls it a "right." To call it a Right when the recipient did not earn it is merely to compound the evil. It is charity still -- though now extorted by criminal tactics of force, while hiding under a dishonest name.

As with any good or service that is provided by some specific group of men, if you try to make its possession by all a right, you thereby enslave the providers of the service, wreck the service, and end up depriving the very consumers you are supposed to be helping. To call "medical care" a right will merely enslave the doctors and thus destroy the quality of medical care in this country, as socialized medicine has done around the world, wherever it has been tried, including Canada (I was born in Canada and I know a bit about that system first hand).

I would like to clarify the point about socialized medicine enslaving the doctors. Let me quote here from an article I wrote a few years ago: "Medicine: The Death of a Profession." [The Voice of Reason: Essays in Objectivist Thought, NAL Books, c 1988 by the Estate of Ayn Rand and Leonard Peikoff.]

"In medicine, above all, the mind must be left free. Medical treatment involves countless variables and options that must be taken into account, weighed, and summed up by the doctor's mind and subconscious. Your life depends on the private, inner essence of the doctor's function: it depends on the input that enters his brain, and on the processing such input receives from him. What is being thrust now into the equation? It is not only objective medical facts any longer. Today, in one form or another, the following also has to enter that brain: 'The DRG administrator [in effect, the hospital or HMO man trying to control costs] will raise hell if I operate, but the malpractice attorney will have a field day if I don't -- and my rival down the street, who heads the local PRO [Peer Review Organization], favors a CAT scan in these cases, I can't afford to antagonize him, but the CON boys disagree and they won't authorize a CAT scanner for our hospital -- and besides the FDA prohibits the drug I should be prescribing, even though it is widely used in Europe, and the IRS might not allow the patient a tax deduction for it, anyhow, and I can't get a specialist's advice because the latest Medicare rules prohibit a consultation with this diagnosis, and maybe I shouldn't even take this patient, he's so sick -- after all, some doctors are manipulating their slate of patients, they accept only the healthiest ones, so their average costs are coming in lower than mine, and it looks bad for my staff privileges.' Would you like your case to be treated this way -- by a doctor who takes into account your objective medical needs and the contradictory, unintelligible demands of some ninety different state and Federal government agencies? If you were a doctor could you comply with all of it? Could you plan or work around or deal with the unknowable? But how could you not? Those agencies are real and they are rapidly gaining total power over you and your mind and your patients. In this kind of nightmare world, if and when it takes hold fully, thought is helpless; no one can decide by rational means what to do. A doctor either obeys the loudest authority -- or he tries to sneak by unnoticed, bootlegging some good health care occasionally or, as so many are doing now, he simply gives up and quits the field."

The Clinton plan will finish off quality medicine in this country -- because it will finish off the medical profession. It will deliver doctors bound hands and feet to the mercies of the bureaucracy.

The only hope -- for the doctors, for their patients, for all of us -- is for the doctors to assert a moral principle. I mean: to assert their own personal individual rights -- their real rights in this issue -- their right to their lives, their liberty, their property, their pursuit of happiness. The Declaration of Independence applies to the medical profession too. We must reject the idea that doctors are slaves destined to serve others at the behest of the state.

I'd like to conclude with a sentence from Ayn Rand. Doctors, she wrote, are not servants of their patients. They are "traders, like everyone else in a free society, and they should bear that title proudly, considering the crucial importance of the services they offer."

The battle against the Clinton plan, in my opinion, depends on the doctors speaking out against the plan -- but not only on practical grounds -- rather, first of all, on moral grounds. The doctors must defend themselves and their own interests as a matter of solemn justice, upholding a moral principle, the first moral principle: self- preservation. If they can do it, all of us will still have a chance. I hope it is not already too late. Thank you.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: Ornery

  1. This is Third World Medicine

LOLOL i guess you don't know the concept of a biased website. Look where you're getting that information from. And right after that 'this is third world medicine', the radiologist stated that it's only going to get worst... when in fact it's gotten much better since then.

That site is 5 years old. My dad had an ulcer, and was scanned for stomach cancer within 48 hrs.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Why stop at healthcare? How about free food? A free car? A free Xbox 360 for all?

Let's just socialize everything please.

By that logic, why should education be free? We should get rid of that and privatize the entire thing.

There are certain stanrdards that a civilized society needs. One is an educated population, and the other a healthy population.

No matter how much money you throw at healthcare or how much the government holds your hand from cradle to death, the only way to improve the health of the general population is personal responsibility on their own part to exercise and eat healthy. This can be acheived with a low income.

I'm not talking about the very small percentage of people that are disabled. I'm talking about the masses of people that are in terrible shape because of their own choices.

By using the government to steal from the people that do take care of themselves, you are destroying economic liberty. You are taking away America and replacing it with tyranny by the masses.

The same goes for education. No matter how much money you throw at it, as long as our children have the general mentality of enititlement and a lack of competition, they will perform worse than schools in other nations that receive far less funding.


Which nation has better schools but receive less funding per capita?
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
0
0
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Why stop at healthcare? How about free food? A free car? A free Xbox 360 for all?

Let's just socialize everything please.

By that logic, why should education be free? We should get rid of that and privatize the entire thing.

There are certain stanrdards that a civilized society needs. One is an educated population, and the other a healthy population.

No matter how much money you throw at healthcare or how much the government holds your hand from cradle to death, the only way to improve the health of the general population is personal responsibility on their own part to exercise and eat healthy. This can be acheived with a low income.

I'm not talking about the very small percentage of people that are disabled. I'm talking about the masses of people that are in terrible shape because of their own choices.

By using the government to steal from the people that do take care of themselves, you are destroying economic liberty. You are taking away America and replacing it with tyranny by the masses.

The same goes for education. No matter how much money you throw at it, as long as our children have the general mentality of enititlement and a lack of competition, they will perform worse than schools in other nations that receive far less funding.


Which nation has better schools but receive less funding per capita?

We spend more money on Education per student than any other nation.