Yes.
I think that the country is responsible for the health of its citizens, and emergency care for all its residents.
That's the simple answer of course it's incredibly more complicated than that, and I'm not sure if the country is ready or capable of supporting that, It's the eventual goal we should be working toward though.
I think that the country is responsible for the health of its citizens, and emergency care for all its residents.
That's the simple answer of course it's incredibly more complicated than that, and I'm not sure if the country is ready or capable of supporting that, It's the eventual goal we should be working toward though.
- Sep 28, 2005
- 21,128
- 3,660
- 126
yes lets deny everyone health care and see what happens. Now if the poor are getting sick while the rich dont, then the work force drops, the rich wont get richer anymore because of all the poor people that can not participate in the work force, hence, our country will be one of the most disease infested nations in the world.
Heres another scenerio, if we deny all the illegal aliens health care, WHERE DO U THINK THEY ARE RIGHT NOW? If they bring something like small pox though the borders, dont goto the hospital, CDC never picks it up until there whole neighborhood is infested, after the neighborhood is infested, then goes city, then CDC has to quarentine the entire city. such such...
Health care should be given to everyone, and not just a privilaged few. If you dont like it, or your thinking, its my money going to illegal bastards, then tough. Pray and hope a liberterian will take office and change all the health care plans. Other then that, having our taxes dished out to illegal's in healthcare can be thought of as a insurence that we wont be getting anything like mad chicken, mad cow, small pox, or even some funky strain of the flu that will reduce our population by 1/10.
Heres another scenerio, if we deny all the illegal aliens health care, WHERE DO U THINK THEY ARE RIGHT NOW? If they bring something like small pox though the borders, dont goto the hospital, CDC never picks it up until there whole neighborhood is infested, after the neighborhood is infested, then goes city, then CDC has to quarentine the entire city. such such...
Health care should be given to everyone, and not just a privilaged few. If you dont like it, or your thinking, its my money going to illegal bastards, then tough. Pray and hope a liberterian will take office and change all the health care plans. Other then that, having our taxes dished out to illegal's in healthcare can be thought of as a insurence that we wont be getting anything like mad chicken, mad cow, small pox, or even some funky strain of the flu that will reduce our population by 1/10.
Originally posted by: MX2times
Thats right, I am talking government/employer funded by our tax dollars people.
No poll, thats too easy. Discussion please
yes it should be.. this country has more than enough budget to spend on something besides helping the REST OF THE FVCKIGN WORLD...
help ourselves first.. quit spending billions on projects that are worthless and spend some on helping make sure our country stays healthy longer.
Europe and Canada have it going on.. free worldclass healthcare as long as your a citizen
How about we spend money on securing our borders then? Istead of spending our money making sure the illgals take our jobs and our money(for healthcare)?
No, its not our responsibility to take care of illegals and lazy people, if you think it is then you give your money to the government, so they can waste 80% of it, and then greedy lazy people can take advantage of 19% of it.
Hell, why not make US citizens tax money make madatory healthcare world wide? Other countries have sick people too, we should give them our hard earned money too. /sarcasm
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
- 21
- 81
I will gladly support 100% healthcare for all citizens - under the condition that we completely remove Welfare and every other freebie program, raise retirement to 68, allow food debit cards with minimal balances only to be used with a strict list of grocery items, reduce minimum wage, and add a tax penalty rather than an incentive for every child you have.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
- 21,765
- 615
- 126
LOL...I don't have a solid opinion on this one way or the other, other then to say I current system is a model of inefficiency when it comes to use of resources (read as cash). But I find it hilarious that people suggest lifting some weights and eating an apple is going to solve everyone's healthcare problems. Like some one's cancer or broken spinal cord will be cured by lifting a dumbell.
Everyone wants to advocate a simple solution to complex problems it seems.
And for the record, America already has nationalized healthcare...its just the most half assed poorly designed version in existance.
Everyone wants to advocate a simple solution to complex problems it seems.
And for the record, America already has nationalized healthcare...its just the most half assed poorly designed version in existance.
I agree with you almost 100%, instead of a tax penalty how bout different deductibles depending on haw many children you have?
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
- 21
- 81
The reason for the "penalty" is your children are covered by the healthcare, and, there are too many children being born into this world under the premise that the parents receive some kind of monetary benefit from it.
If we're going to help out people that can't help out themselves (sometimes for legit reasons), then there are 3 things we should target and nothing else. And even then, at a bare minimum. 1. Food, 2. Education, 3. Health. I'm even hesitant to include Housing. Lower income people that can't afford their own housing tend to completely destroy what is given to them.
And who do you think these healthcare company execs are? Doctors who are no longer in private practice or on a hospital staff, and have already made their $$$. They create healthcare plans along with back scratching drug companies and insurance brokers.
Healthcare is a fundamental human right! That being said, yes, socialized medicine can suck. An interesting compromise might be a voucher system. That is, each U.S. citizen is entitled to a voucher from the government, for say $3000 a year for healthcare. This could be used to buy a budget plan....one with huge deductables, not much experimental treatment, etc, just so people aren't dying 'cause they can't get thier meds. Most people would elect to spend more of their own cash for a premium plan. Employers could still offer premium plan upgrades to attract employees. Insurance companies would stay in business. Medicine wouldn't loose that "competative edge" that causes the U.S. healthcare system to be one of the best in the world (it is, just not for the small stuff.) And eveyone is covered. Any takers?
Oh, yeah. I may be biased 'cause I'm in Med School, but the docs aren't sucking up the money, trust me. It's healthcare management. Executive salaries. Drug companies advertising allergy drugs on TV (they're all the same, advertising just drives up the cost.) Excessive testing and treatment can also be a smaller cause of increasing cost (and this is partially docs' fault) but we could also put some blame on American society. "You don't need a full course of antibiotics for your head cold sweety." Plus our population is getting older, and the majority of medical costs now go towards chronic care rather than accute care. Not to sound insensitive, but you can't expect to take care of all these old dying folks without a substantial cost to society.
And speaking of Medicine, everyone can help research incurable diseases by contributing your spare CPU cycles to a distributed computing project. See the Distributed Computing Forum. Whether we have universal healthcare or not, more cures means more happy folks. Happy folding!
And speaking of Medicine, everyone can help research incurable diseases by contributing your spare CPU cycles to a distributed computing project. See the Distributed Computing Forum. Whether we have universal healthcare or not, more cures means more happy folks. Happy folding!
No!!
Never, went through that kinda crap once in my life, no mas!
You have money, you get healthcare. Taxes are hovering about 30-35%, dont need them to be any higher.
Never, went through that kinda crap once in my life, no mas!
You have money, you get healthcare. Taxes are hovering about 30-35%, dont need them to be any higher.
Going into the medical field, this is a debate that will go on forever:
The key flaw is in American healthcare, is the insurability.
If you run high risk to get sick, or if you have had a history of diabetes and cancer, all companies will refuse to insure you.
In an american medical system, it is darwinist. The rich get priority, the rich are and always will be first in line and healthiest as a result
Going into the medical field for me, was not money because that was given to me, to be a doctor is to help everyone else.
The problem is, the American's have so many illegal immigrants and can't screen every person, and in this point, I agree. I think that citizens who do not belong in america, or came illegitimately, should be refused healthcare until they apply for a visa, they are the ones screwing everything up.
Most aliens work hard, and I know, since my father got into Canada with a scholarship being a Teaching Assistant at the University of Victoria with a Masters in Chemistry.
The American system of healthcare can never be fixed in our lifetime. Compassionate doctors, or those who care for the well being of others instead of the money, choose different countries.
As sick of a system as it is, there is nothing you can do about it, apparently the well being of someone's life depends on their insurance and if they have coverage for that type of disease.
It is sad that a healthcare system works like a prepaid phone system "50 000 dollars insurance etc." cards. I will not lie, and I will tell you I hope to become a doctor in America, but I will NOT practice there.
Why you ask? Well, particularly in my field I hope to study, Oncology isn't about how much you get paid, it's about how much you care. Seeing people pass away due to a disease isn't very easy and isn't for the mentally weak. Granted I have some ways to go, I must say that turning down a patient because their insurance won't have coverage for me to help them, will not happen wherever I go.
I can only do so much for someone due to the corrupt political health system, but i'd do my damned best to keep them alive.
I just don't understand how people can sit there and harass the Canadian system due to some fallacious lie about how we "have to wait" or we can't MRI's.
In our country, it works due to critical state. The most critical will be the first admitted, how does one compensate for a man in the ER room waiting to get surgery due to abdominal infection for a person that has a mere flu with the most severe side being vomitting? I don't see it.?
Are you guys just plain capitalists who only care about them damn selves? Do you not have any shame? If it wasn't for me, you, the guy posting above you, the guy disagreeing with you, we wouldn't be where we are today. It's PEOPLE who inspire others to create the vaccine, it's PEOPLE who sacrifice themselves for the well being of others, NOT YOU. OPEN YOUR EYES,
The most important things in life aren't things, they're people.
One death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic.
The key flaw is in American healthcare, is the insurability.
If you run high risk to get sick, or if you have had a history of diabetes and cancer, all companies will refuse to insure you.
In an american medical system, it is darwinist. The rich get priority, the rich are and always will be first in line and healthiest as a result
Going into the medical field for me, was not money because that was given to me, to be a doctor is to help everyone else.
The problem is, the American's have so many illegal immigrants and can't screen every person, and in this point, I agree. I think that citizens who do not belong in america, or came illegitimately, should be refused healthcare until they apply for a visa, they are the ones screwing everything up.
Most aliens work hard, and I know, since my father got into Canada with a scholarship being a Teaching Assistant at the University of Victoria with a Masters in Chemistry.
The American system of healthcare can never be fixed in our lifetime. Compassionate doctors, or those who care for the well being of others instead of the money, choose different countries.
As sick of a system as it is, there is nothing you can do about it, apparently the well being of someone's life depends on their insurance and if they have coverage for that type of disease.
It is sad that a healthcare system works like a prepaid phone system "50 000 dollars insurance etc." cards. I will not lie, and I will tell you I hope to become a doctor in America, but I will NOT practice there.
Why you ask? Well, particularly in my field I hope to study, Oncology isn't about how much you get paid, it's about how much you care. Seeing people pass away due to a disease isn't very easy and isn't for the mentally weak. Granted I have some ways to go, I must say that turning down a patient because their insurance won't have coverage for me to help them, will not happen wherever I go.
I can only do so much for someone due to the corrupt political health system, but i'd do my damned best to keep them alive.
I just don't understand how people can sit there and harass the Canadian system due to some fallacious lie about how we "have to wait" or we can't MRI's.
In our country, it works due to critical state. The most critical will be the first admitted, how does one compensate for a man in the ER room waiting to get surgery due to abdominal infection for a person that has a mere flu with the most severe side being vomitting? I don't see it.?
Are you guys just plain capitalists who only care about them damn selves? Do you not have any shame? If it wasn't for me, you, the guy posting above you, the guy disagreeing with you, we wouldn't be where we are today. It's PEOPLE who inspire others to create the vaccine, it's PEOPLE who sacrifice themselves for the well being of others, NOT YOU. OPEN YOUR EYES,
The most important things in life aren't things, they're people.
One death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic.
Well, healthcare is in Mass, but it is mad crappy cause really good doctors don't take it cause it does not pay well...
They are in the wrong profession for the wrong reason.
Medical school isn't about the money, it's about the compassion.
Medical school isn't about the money, it's about the compassion.
They get serviced faster, yes, but that has no correlation on health. Getting pills does not make you healthy.
If someone is willing to pay more, they have the right to get faster/better service if the hired medical service agrees.
I a believe in liberty. Social and economic. Just because you have a problem, it does not give you the right to steal from others.
Let me first point out that when I refer to "health" care and the movement of universal health care, I'm referring to people wanting "free" prescriptions. Most of the time people need these prescriptions because of their own irresponsibility to eat healthy and exercise, which isn't expensive.
There's major flaws of government run universal health care:
1. It strips away economic liberty
Forcing other people to pay for other's health care is stealing. There is no need for cholesterol pills, or sexual performance pills. For the vast majority of people, cholesterol is determined by your diet. If you eat saturated fats, your liver will make cholesterol. It's simple biology. Getting an healthy diet with omega3/omega6 fats will help control this.
If you've got some obscure desease that costs too much money, you still don't have a right to take money away from people. You can use your own money. But if I were depending on my family, I believe I would have a duty to die in this situation. I know that may sound ridiculous to some people, but these situations can bankrupt families, and screw up your children/grandchildren's future. And for what? A few more years with life support. Is that really worth it? How is it moral to ruin everyone else's life? Our society seems obsesed about extending life spans, without looking at the quality of life, or how it affects others.
http://web.utk.edu/~jhardwig/dutydie.htm
2. It perpetuates the mentality of entitlement, and lack of responsibility with diet/exercise.
Putting a universal health care system will perpetuate the real problem with health in this nation: Obesity, poor diet, and nonexistant exercise. All of these disorders that everyone seems to be getting now can be linked to poor diet and exercise.
There's no class seperation here. Healthy food at the grocery is cheaper than junk food. Exercise is nearly free.
Because that's the bulk of the movement here...people want free medicine. These people don't take care of themselves, and they think that magical pills will fix all of their problems. Prescription drugs fvck around with your body to temporarily fix a problem, it causes side affects, and offers no permanent solution. Not to mention the financial cost.
People arguing for universal health care call the other side selfish. That doesn't make any sense because the free market allows people to use their own money for themselves and their family. In contrast, universal healthcare is about people wanting to use other people's money for their own desires.
An America with universal health care will create a new generation. It will be unhealthy, and have it's rights stripped away. Is that what you really want for our children?
Healthcare is broken. The entire system founded on being grossly obese, eating junk, and using pills to correct problems. This is NOT health care. It is sick care. You are suppressing the symptoms of the sick.
Preventive medicine is real health care. You stop the problems ever from occuring by maintaining health.
An America with universal health care will create a new generation. It will be unhealthy, and have it's rights stripped away. Is that what you really want for our children?
Healthcare is broken. The entire system founded on being grossly obese, eating junk, and using pills to correct problems. This is NOT health care. It is sick care. You are suppressing the symptoms of the sick.
Preventive medicine is real health care. You stop the problems ever from occuring by maintaining health.
Another common misconception about canada.
You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.
Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.
But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.
You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.
Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.
Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.
You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.
Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.
But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.
You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.
Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.
Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter