Dearborn school district now offering students 100% Halal menu

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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
68,855
26,646
136
He hasn't even been creepy, yet. We have guys here who intentionally dial disconnected numbers just to hear a woman's voice. :p
 

JenniferA

Banned
Oct 7, 2019
23
14
81
And this is why its a circular conversation. The separation of church and state means the state can reasonably accommodate but not exclusively endorse that belief.

The meat doesn’t change despite what anyone believes.

It's not though, it doesn't change anything for anyone else but it does change it for the Muslims.

It's a pragmatic decision made because it cuts costs.

You'll eat whatever meat and that is fine by you, someone else wants halal and you eat any meat and that is fine with you. Now they decide that since there is you who eat whatever meat and 43 others that eat halal they will just order halal meat and you'll eat whatever so .... but no, not now, NOW you care, NOW you go "NO HALAL"!

Do you not see how silly this is?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,337
7,987
136
And this is why its a circular conversation. The separation of church and state means the state can reasonably accommodate but not exclusively endorse that belief.

The meat doesn’t change despite what anyone believes.
That's totally not a circular argument.
Different people believe different things.
Muslim people who believe that their food has to be Halal believe in those rules. So animals and meat needs to be treated a certain way.
Jewish people are the same.
Fortunately both Jewish beliefs on slaughter and Muslim ones are compatible for the most part so (most) Jewish people consider Halal meat Kosher.
Atheists and Christians don't have any restrictions on slaughter that clash with Halal slaughter so Halal is compatible to them as well.

Halal accommodates all those peoples.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
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It's not though, it doesn't change anything for anyone else but it does change it for the Muslims.

It's a pragmatic decision made because it cuts costs.

You'll eat whatever meat and that is fine by you, someone else wants halal and you eat any meat and that is fine with you. Now they decide that since there is you who eat whatever meat and 43 others that eat halal they will just order halal meat and you'll eat whatever so .... but no, not now, NOW you care, NOW you go "NO HALAL"!

Do you not see how silly this is?

I can absolutely guarantee you he does not see how silly his position is, haha.

It is deeply silly though, yes.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,337
7,987
136
And this is why its a circular conversation. The separation of church and state means the state can reasonably accommodate but not exclusively endorse that belief.

The meat doesn’t change despite what anyone believes.
Maybe I should phrase it a different way.

Rather than thinking of halal and kosher as religious things think of them as food rules.
Atheist ones are the easiest to meet, then Christian ones, then Jewish ones, then Muslim ones.
As you go down this list of rules you aren't transgressing the lower ones you are just adding a few on top. Now if these rules were onerous for the consumer I'd say that you had a point but as they are transparent to the consumer I'd say that you are making a fuss about nothing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
Maybe I should phrase it a different way.

Rather than thinking of halal and kosher as religious things think of them as food rules.
Atheist ones are the easiest to meet, then Christian ones, then Jewish ones, then Muslim ones.
As you go down this list of rules you aren't transgressing the lower ones you are just adding a few on top. Now if these rules were onerous for the consumer I'd say that you had a point but as they are transparent to the consumer I'd say that you are making a fuss about nothing.

That's the thing though, he's not saying it should be stopped because it is inconvenient to others, he's saying the very act of a school district catering to the religiously based dietary restrictions of its student body is unconstitutional.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
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No one has responded to certificates where the slaughterer has to be Muslim and they are Muslim [I posted the certificates of three of the dearborn vendors] . There has been a whole lot of diversion and nonsensical whatabouttery so far and it is shameful that no one is able to focus on the topic on hand. talk about little minions getting sidetracked.

Why are govt funds going going to a jobs program for only one religious group. The proponents have still not answered that question but keep diverting the topic to 'why you hate islam,/ why you nazi???/ why wont everyone eat halal/ why do you have to be so obtuse etc etc'

if folks cannot respond to the topic on hand, I would respectfully request the mods to close the topic as the last 400 responses here are pretty much 'hah I got you'
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
This is the first post and it talks about job opportunities for non muslims. [& super special people of the book]

1570741758672.png
 

JenniferA

Banned
Oct 7, 2019
23
14
81
No one has responded to certificates where the slaughterer has to be Muslim and they are Muslim [I posted the certificates of three of the dearborn vendors] . There has been a whole lot of diversion and nonsensical whatabouttery so far and it is shameful that no one is able to focus on the topic on hand. talk about little minions getting sidetracked.

Why are govt funds going going to a jobs program for only one religious group. The proponents have still not answered that question but keep diverting the topic to 'why you hate islam,/ why you nazi???/ why wont everyone eat halal/ why do you have to be so obtuse etc etc'

if folks cannot respond to the topic on hand, I would respectfully request the mods to close the topic as the last 400 responses here are pretty much 'hah I got you'

Your memory is great but very, very short, it was replied to within the first page that they don't have to be Muslim but "people of the book" and that is only for one part of the slaughter.

You REALLY want to hate on Muslims there are FAR better reasons (there really are, a lot of them) than this one which does not affect anyone who isn't specifically a Muslim child in Dearborn at all.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Apparently, you don't know what Kosher entails. It's about the same, and it's ubiquitous in the American food industry. Any complaints?


So government is using tax money to make me eat Kosher?? Not sure why this aspect is hard for people to understand. if I want Kosher, I use my money to buy products. Show me a school that forces 100% Kosher and I will rail and post against the same.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,506
15,737
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So government is using tax money to make me eat Kosher?? Not sure why this aspect is hard for people to understand. if I want Kosher, I use my money to buy products. Show me a school that forces 100% Kosher and I will rail and post against the same.

You can request different meals. They are making meals to what appears the majority want
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Your memory is great but very, very short, it was replied to within the first page that they don't have to be Muslim but "people of the book" and that is only for one part of the slaughter.

You REALLY want to hate on Muslims there are FAR better reasons (there really are, a lot of them) than this one which does not affect anyone who isn't specifically a Muslim child in Dearborn at all.

jennifer, i have posted all the certificates that the school vendors submitted. every one of them have submitted that the food was blessed and slaughtered by a Muslim. So would you be ok if you have to be a certain religion to post here, or a certain religion to apply for a job

if you are , then I have nothing else to say.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Your memory is great but very, very short, it was replied to within the first page that they don't have to be Muslim but "people of the book" and that is only for one part of the slaughter.

You REALLY want to hate on Muslims there are FAR better reasons (there really are, a lot of them) than this one which does not affect anyone who isn't specifically a Muslim child in Dearborn at all.

Please refer to below post #446



https://dearbornschools.org/download/734/food-services/224019/dearborn-halal-certifications-9-13.pdf

vendor 1:

1570639792178.png


vendor 2



1570639867318.png


Vendor 3 : Cimple Meants



1570639974106.png



What does ISWA halal certification say



1570640038967.png


There are a few more certificates, but like i said this is a 100% jobs program for just one group.
 

JenniferA

Banned
Oct 7, 2019
23
14
81
This is the first post and it talks about job opportunities for non muslims. [& super special people of the book]

View attachment 11810

I'm an atheist and eating halal or kosher doesn't affect me in any shape or form, nor does the small slaughterhouses that cater to the niche markets affect the massive, MASSIVE meat industry of the US receiving billions in subsidies to keep mistreating and injecting animals with overdoses of antibiotics.

You want a change, go vegan. I won't because I buy my meat in my nation where we treat animals decently and can't inject them with jack shit without approval from a government agency that sends out a veterinarian first.
 

JenniferA

Banned
Oct 7, 2019
23
14
81
Please refer to below post #446



https://dearbornschools.org/download/734/food-services/224019/dearborn-halal-certifications-9-13.pdf

vendor 1:

1570639792178.png


vendor 2



1570639867318.png


Vendor 3 : Cimple Meants



1570639974106.png



What does ISWA halal certification say



1570640038967.png


There are a few more certificates, but like i said this is a 100% jobs program for just one group.

Those are all fine links from StormFront you have there but in reality it is fine with Kosher or anything done by the correct procedure by people of the book for it to be Halal. I have a feeling you don't understand the subject, all Halal means is "permissive" and the opposite is Haram which means "forbidden".

You don't need all of that for meat to be permissible to eat (Halal).

I think this is just a case of your ignorance coupled with an outrage that you really want to stick to.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,337
7,987
136
That's the thing though, he's not saying it should be stopped because it is inconvenient to others, he's saying the very act of a school district catering to the religiously based dietary restrictions of its student body is unconstitutional.
I think people against it are looking at it as exclusionary rather than inclusionary which is what it is. Its reaching for the largest audience rather than trying to cater for the minority.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,337
7,987
136
So government is using tax money to make me eat Kosher?? Not sure why this aspect is hard for people to understand. if I want Kosher, I use my money to buy products. Show me a school that forces 100% Kosher and I will rail and post against the same.
The meals in the OP that you are frothing about are probably Kosher.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
You can request different meals. They are making meals to what appears the majority want

i get it, I know kids have other options. My point is why are govt funds used for a one religion only jobs program. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to get. You keep talking like I dont get that other kids have other options. I posted the menu on my first post. You think I didn't go through what options there are

Someone brought up beverly school district and a total bullshit about 100% Kosher and also made fun of my reading comprehension. I showed again that the meal plans is not 100% Kosher and every kid has options
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
The meals in the OP that you are frothing about are probably Kosher.


Can you be a little bit more respectful. Where was I frothing? Are you feeling superior now?
So you think I am frothing when you are just 'probably' sure. Great
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,337
7,987
136
i get it, I know kids have other options. My point is why are govt funds used for a one religion only jobs program. I don't understand why it is so hard for people to get. You keep talking like I dont get that other kids have other options. I posted the menu on my first post. You think I didn't go through what options there are

Because they would have to use three different abattoirs, butcheries and kitchens to achieve the same results otherwise.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Because they would have to use three different abattoirs, butcheries and kitchens to achieve the same results otherwise.


And so what?? so that means they can initiate a jobs program for one group

Most of the other school groups are doing the same and none of the muslim kids are exploding . let the school use its own funds to buy from Halal suppliers. if it is indeed so cost efficient why dont the school district use their funds, why do they need USDA funds?