Dearborn school district now offering students 100% Halal menu

[JEDIYoda]

Guys let up on this Halala stuff!1 It is truly getting out of hand and it is making those who keep this stuff up look like blabbering idiots!!

 

[Starbuck1975]

So do you consider the cheese pizza halal or not?

I consider it pizza, unless its made in Chicago, in which case its a casserole.

 

[pmv]

WB, I get it. I seem like a total fuckhead trying to starve the arab kids, but again that's not my intent at all. if the school wants to use the funds generated and part of their capex, then they can go ahead and buy whatever food they want. In this case, they are now getting matching funds from the USDA and going the halal route.

I have been against it since the beginning. It may seem to be a trivial issue to most of you, but I am irked by this usage of federal funds for just acquiescing just one group.

Honestly this is hard to empathise with from over here! We have an established church! We have seats in the legislature reserved for (necessarily male) bishops! We have about 1/3 of state schools being religious ones, allowed to discriminate on religious grounds. We have compulsory religious education and 'daily acts of worship' in all state schools (granted that wasn't honoured in any but the most nominal way at my schools).

Compared to all that (which I absolutely don't like and wish could be scrapped), the very debatable possibility of a handful of jobs in a handful of slaughter houses being unavailable to some religiously-defined groups, just does not seem worth getting worked-up about.

I would again ask about military chaplains - checking wikipedia suggests those jobs have indeed been challenged on church-and-state grounds, but it seems it was decided (essentially, I paraphrase very brutally) "it's too much hassle to worry about it and would cause more problems than it's worth". I'd say the same applies to this halal food issue.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Honestly this is hard to empathise with from over here! We have an established church! We have seats in the legislature reserved for (necessarily male) bishops! We have about 1/3 of state schools being religious ones, allowed to discriminate on religious grounds. We have compulsory religious education and 'daily acts of worship' in all state schools (granted that wasn't honoured in any but the most nominal way at my schools).

Compared to all that (which I absolutely don't like and wish could be scrapped), the very debatable possibility of a handful of jobs in a handful of slaughter houses being unavailable to some religiously-defined groups, just does not seem worth getting worked-up about.

I would again ask about military chaplains - checking wikipedia suggests those jobs have indeed been challenged on church-and-state grounds, but it seems it was decided (essentially, I paraphrase very brutally) "it's too much hassle to worry about it and would cause more problems than it's worth". I'd say the same applies to this halal food issue.

If you read the case history, there’s been judicial review on denominational favoritism that doesn’t prevent the military from accomodating religion but does prevent the military from exclusively favoring one religion out of pragmatism, as exclusivity is a form of proselytizing.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Guys let up on this Halala stuff!1 It is truly getting out of hand and it is making those who keep this stuff up look like blabbering idiots!!

Thank you for your concern

 

[pmv]

If you read the case history, there’s been judicial review on denominational favoritism that doesn’t prevent the military from accomodating religion but does prevent the military from exclusively favoring one religion out of pragmatism, as exclusivity is a form of proselytizing.

But they are providing a service which is intrinsically a religious one, no? An atheist couldn't perform that function, it's a religious function by its very nature, one that the state pays for because the troops (many of them, anyway) benefit from a religious kind of support. It seems to me on the face of it that that isn't wildly different to the state paying for the religious rite to be peformed for the meat the children eat. Both seem to me to be a technical violation of the notion of perfect separation of church and state, but one that is justified because of the need to cater to the requirements of those the state is serving.

Granted, that assumes there aren't a proportionate number of atheist chaplains who function as, in effect, non-religious counsellors.

 

[fskimospy]

Guys the legal arguments here are pointless nonsense. As Starbuck tries to talk about how buying halal meat is unconstitutional there are numerous educational institutions funded basically entirely by government money that not only serve exclusively kosher food, but also provide religious instruction.

There is no constitutional violation here and there's nothing even remotely close. He's just making shit up.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Guys the legal arguments here are pointless nonsense. As Starbuck tries to talk about how buying halal meat is unconstitutional there are numerous educational institutions funded basically entirely by government money that not only serve exclusively kosher food, but also provide religious instruction.

There is no constitutional violation here and there's nothing even remotely close. He's just making shit up.

I’ve tapped out, there really isn’t anything left to discuss.

 

[nakedfrog]

But they are providing a service which is intrinsically a religious one, no? An atheist couldn't perform that function, it's a religious function by its very nature, one that the state pays for because the troops (many of them, anyway) benefit from a religious kind of support. It seems to me on the face of it that that isn't wildly different to the state paying for the religious rite to be peformed for the meat the children eat. Both seem to me to be a technical violation of the notion of perfect separation of church and state, but one that is justified because of the need to cater to the requirements of those the state is serving.

Granted, that assumes there aren't a proportionate number of atheist chaplains who function as, in effect, non-religious counsellors.

I actually looked that up back when we were only a few pages deep, there are many news articles about a non-theist humanist in the Navy that was attempting to become a chaplain but was denied. Based on that I'm inclined to think there probably aren't any.

 

[hal2kilo]

I consider it pizza, unless its made in Chicago, in which case its a casserole.

If you can eat more than 2 slices in a sitting, it's not Chicago style pizza. If it's not made in a 40 mile radius of Chicago, pass. Been burned every time.
IIRC, Alferno's on Clark St. is the place to go if it's still there.

 

[fskimospy]

If you can eat more than 2 slices in a sitting, it's not Chicago style pizza. If it's not made in a 40 mile radius of Chicago, pass. Been burned every time.

Chicago is one of my favorite cities and the food scene there is great. Fuck their lasagna pretending to be pizza though.

Also fuck their hot dogs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If you can eat more than 2 slices in a sitting, it's not Chicago style pizza. If it's not made in a 40 mile radius of Chicago, pass. Been burned every time.

I always figured if it looks like a 5 pound cheese wheel inside a pie crust like breading it’s chicago style

 

[Starbuck1975]

But they are providing a service which is intrinsically a religious one, no? An atheist couldn't perform that function, it's a religious function by its very nature, one that the state pays for because the troops (many of them, anyway) benefit from a religious kind of support. It seems to me on the face of it that that isn't wildly different to the state paying for the religious rite to be peformed for the meat the children eat. Both seem to me to be a technical violation of the notion of perfect separation of church and state, but one that is justified because of the need to cater to the requirements of those the state is serving.

Granted, that assumes there aren't a proportionate number of atheist chaplains who function as, in effect, non-religious counsellors.

Again, there is a fine line between accomodation and endorsement, and conversations around religion are usually just a Rorschach test of political leanings, and I find it interesting when the polarity changes. Islam is a great example.

I am guessing the families in this district are devout Muslims that the school finds it pragmatic to offer halal meat to all. It will be curious to see what happens at this school when other social and cultural issues come into focus.

 

[cirrrocco]

If you can eat more than 2 slices in a sitting, it's not Chicago style pizza. If it's not made in a 40 mile radius of Chicago, pass. Been burned every time.
IIRC, Alferno's on Clark St. is the place to go if it's still there.

I got to check it out . Used to live in the midwest and miss the amazing pizzas

 

[IronWing]

Chicago is one of my favorite cities and the food scene there is great. Fuck their lasagna pretending to be pizza though.

Also fuck their hot dogs.

^ The man ain't got no culture. If you can fold it or roll it, it ain't pizza.


Agree with you about the hot dogs. Sonoran chipilones > all other hot dogs.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I agree about the Pizza! I live on the west coast and it seems like we don`t know how to make pizza!! lolol

 

[IronWing]

I agree about the Pizza! I live on the west coast and it seems like we don`t know how to make pizza!! lolol

That's because west coasters inevitably try to make food "healthier" by removing/substituting all the ingredients that make the food good.

 

[fskimospy]

That's because west coasters inevitably try to make food "healthier" by removing/substituting all the ingredients that make the food good.

The burritos in California would like a word with you about how healthy their cuisine is.

 

[IronWing]

The burritos in California would like a word with you about how healthy their cuisine is.

California burritos are terribad. They take wonderful, healthful ingredients and combine them into bland, oblong objects that are nothing like burritos. If there ain't lard in at least two of the ingredients, a burrito probably sucks. 😛

 

[fskimospy]

California burritos are terribad. They take wonderful, healthful ingredients and combine them into bland, oblong objects that are nothing like burritos. If there ain't lard in at least two of the ingredients, a burrito probably sucks. 😛

What??? California has the best burritos in the country, hands down. The only other state that comes close is Texas. They are so good that when 538 did their burrito bracket they made California its own group. (it also crushed the competition overall)

And no, the ingredients in a good burrito in California are not healthful, haha.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You can’t beat the west coast for Mexican food! There are Taqeurias on almost every corner!

 

[hal2kilo]

Chicago is one of my favorite cities and the food scene there is great. Fuck their lasagna pretending to be pizza though.

Also fuck their hot dogs.

You don't like a David Berg dog, on a steamed poppy seed roll, with tomato

That's because west coasters inevitably try to make food "healthier" by removing/substituting all the ingredients that make the food good.

You need to get out to my neck of the woods and try Seabeck Pizza.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't like a David Berg dog, on a steamed poppy seed roll, with tomato

I do not.

 

[hal2kilo]

What??? California has the best burritos in the country, hands down. The only other state that comes close is Texas. They are so good that when 538 did their burrito bracket they made California its own group. (it also crushed the competition overall)

And no, the ingredients in a good burrito in California are not healthful, haha.

Miss my favorite place on Lincoln Ave. in Anaheim or Ted's. Had to perfect my own version since what McDonalds and Taco Smell have isn't even close.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Then we have the iconic Der Weinerschnitzel!!