Cops are a JOKE!

[HAL9000]

Despite what this necktard ignoramus is spewing, people in the UK do have some rights against unreasonable searches, though still nothing like those afforded to citizens in countries with real freedom. Wikipedia has a decent primer on it.

Notice how the current restrictions against warrantless searches were enacted because--surprise!--police were routinely abusing their power under the older, less restrictive laws.

I just can't understand why letting the police search your car is such a massive issue..! If you're not committing a crime then what's the problem? And if the answer is "it's the principle of the thing" then feel free to sit at the side of the road with the police for 45 minutes while they get a warrant, search your car and find nothing just to prove a point. It just seems like a futile, childish act stopping the police doing they're job if you have nothing to hide.

I.e. No! My CAR MY CAR MY CAR WAAA!

Also I never said the police can search what they want in the UK, they can search your car though.

 

[MarkXIX]

Here's why necktard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Law of the land, that's fucking why. Has nothing to do with principle, has everything to do with the law of the land.

 

[HAL9000]

Here's why necktard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Law of the land, that's fucking why. Has nothing to do with principle, has everything to do with the law of the land.

Law of your land, not based on principles. Law of you land, law of your fucking land. Just because it's law doesn't make it right. On a side note, it's just a car wtf?!

Just because they don't have the legal right to search your car without a warrant doesn't mean it makes sense not to allow them to, forcing them to go and get a warrant and waste your time.

That is just principle, and that is a retarded waste of time.

 

[Eli]

In all honesty you make a very valid and persuasive argument and I'm not sure I can argue against it, other than to say that to me alchohol isn't really a problem because it is legal, and because (over here) you can drink it from age 2, so people are kind of used to its effects and used to the results, whereas that's not so with drugs, people experiment and a lot of problems arise as a result. i've actually started a thread in in P&N on my opinion that we should not only legalise drugs but also make them free on the NHS, however with all that being said. The law is the law you break it you face the consequences, yes there are unjust laws, with Squatters rights being a perfect example, but you can't just say "oh well I think it's ok" and break it, that's what sociopaths do, with murder. While a law is in place if you break it you deserve to do deal with the consequences. It's the way the world works, if you don't like a law or you believe it is unjust, thats understandable and you should work to get it changed or move to somewhere were the law doesn't apply, but it's part of the social contract that everyone should abide by the law.

Without law there would be chaos.

"they take their chances" is just my point, if you want to break the law you know the risks involved, then you deserve to (if caught) deal with the consequences.

Doh, see my edit. I don't disagree with anything that you've said in this post.

Yeah. I guess overall, that is the point. But by its very definition, under "the law is the law".. the law doesn't change. It's the law. You want it to change? You overthrow the government.. lol.

That's where the danger is. The overall ideas are hard to explain, but "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about", is a very slippery slope.

As an example, I want marijuana legalized. What if that weren't possible? What if anybody that wanted it legalized was squashed, their voices not heard? That's what would happen under "the law is the law". Of course, if I don't believe in the law, I'm not going to follow that law. It has to start somewhere, right? What if everyone that believed marijuana should be legalized was locked up or put to death, again their voices not heard? The whole idea, again, is that it has to start somewhere. If you are guilty until proven innocent, this process never has a chance to get off the ground, let alone complete. That's part of the reason why we are innocent until proven guilty. You're allowed to do whatever you want. If you are doing something illegal and you get caught, you will suffer the consequences. However, at least collectively, we have the ability to change those laws - and no law has ever been changed because "The law is the law".

 

[MarkXIX]

I sense a small sense of anger that we kicked your ass over two decades ago and implemented laws that are still better than yours after all these years. Am I right?

 

[HAL9000]

Doh, see my edit. I don't disagree with anything that you've said in this post.

Yeah. I guess overall, that is the point. But by its very definition, under "the law is the law".. the law doesn't change. It's the law. You want it to change? You overthrow the government.. lol.

That's where the danger is. The overall ideas are hard to explain, but "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about", is a very slippery slope.

As an example, I want marijuana legalized. What if that weren't possible? What if anybody that wanted it legalized was squashed, their voices not heard? That's what would happen under "the law is the law". Of course, if I don't believe in the law, I'm not going to follow that law. It has to start somewhere, right? What if everyone that believed marijuana should be legalized was locked up or put to death, again their voices not heard? The whole idea, again, is that it has to start somewhere. If you are guilty until proven innocent, this process never has a chance to get off the ground, let alone complete. That's part of the reason why we are innocent until proven guilty.

I completely see your point, and is your choice if you want to ignore the law, but the law is there for the benefit of the majority, (in a democracy) and if the majority want it changed then generally it will be, if they don't it wont be, unfortunately that does mean minority opinion gets squashed, but thats the nature of a democracy. The thing is people are entitled to ignore the law, but if they do they can't then complain that "Cops are a JOKE!" when they get caught up with

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Never, Never, Never, Never, Never let the cops search your car. Make them illegally search your car or get a search warrant. Even if you "KNOW" there is nothing illegal in your car.

This is is the most ignorant comment I have read on this site.

In the UK they have the right to.... If there's nothing in your car whats the problem?!

The problem would be that they have no right to search your car without your permission or a search warrant unless there is probable cause. By allowing the police to search your car you have made it easy for them to inconvenience you for an additional 20-30 minutes while they pick apart your car with a fine toothed comb and then make you put it back together.

I have nothing illegal in my car, do not do drugs, have nothing resembling drugs or anything that would raise reasonable suspicion to allow them to search my car without a warrant. I would still NEVER agree to a search of my car because it's my right to refuse to allow the police the ability to search my vehicle. I would not stop them if they wanted to illegally search but I would not give them the pleasure of searching my car without a warrant.

This is one of the reasons why we didn't want to be a part of your country anymore and decided to have remove ourselves from your countries rule.

 

[HAL9000]

I sense a small sense of anger that we kicked your ass over two decades ago and implemented laws that are still better than yours after all these years. Am I right?

No I wasn't alive more than 22 years ago, IDGAS about history... I sense a small sense of anger that you're our wayward child from a few hundred years ago and we've matured and implemented laws that are still better than yours after all these years. Am I right?

 

[HAL9000]

The problem would be that they have no right to search your car without your permission or a search warrant unless there is probable cause. By allowing the police to search your car you have made it easy for them to inconvenience you for an additional 20-30 minutes while they pick apart your car with a fine toothed comb and then make you put it back together.

I have nothing illegal in my car, do not do drugs, have nothing resembling drugs or anything that would raise reasonable suspicion to allow them to search my car without a warrant. I would still NEVER agree to a search of my car because it's my right to refuse to allow the police the ability to search my vehicle. I would not stop them if they wanted to illegally search but I would not give them the pleasure of searching my car without a warrant.

This is one of the reasons why we didn't want to be a part of your country anymore and decided to have remove ourselves from your countries rule.

I can understand that, I suppose, but generally speaking the way it goes is "let me search your car"...."no"...."Ok I'll get a warrant" 25 minutes later the search takes place anyway. Just let them do it, they will be satisfied that you've done nothing thats it no more problems. Why make the polices job more difficult they are there to help

 

[Venix]

I just can't understand why letting the police search your car is such a massive issue..! If you're not committing a crime then what's the problem? And if the answer is "it's the principle of the thing" then feel free to sit at the side of the road with the police for 45 minutes while they get a warrant, search your car and find nothing just to prove a point. It just seems like a futile, childish act stopping the police doing they're job if you have nothing to hide.

I.e. No! My CAR MY CAR MY CAR WAAA!

Of course a cowardly loser like yourself can't understand it, just like you can't understand why everyone here dislikes you.

A search request is an accusation of wrongdoing and an attack on a man's character and integrity. No real man would passively allow himself to be slandered by agreeing to an unwarranted search. Of course no one's ever accused you of being a real man, so it's no surprise you have such difficulty with the concept.

Your repeated claims that the police will make you wait for a warrant are laughably false. Acquiring a warrant requires exactly the same standard of evidence as a warrantless search; if they have probable cause they will simply perform the search, not waste the time to request a pointless warrant.

 

[DrPizza]

I sense a small sense of anger that we kicked your ass over two decades ago and implemented laws that are still better than yours after all these years. Am I right?

Uhhh, that would be centuries. Not decades. And, it was a little over 6 decades ago that we bailed their asses out in a big war.

 

[HAL9000]

Of course ...yourself can't understand it, just like you can't understand why ...

A search request is an accusation of wrongdoing and an attack on a man's character and integrity. No real man would passively allow himself to be slandered by agreeing to an unwarranted search. ...

Your repeated claims that the police will make you wait for a warrant are laughably false. Acquiring a warrant requires exactly the same standard of evidence as a warrantless search; if they have probable cause they will simply perform the search, not waste the time to request a pointless warrant.

Ok after filtering through the pathetic insults from a fucking moron, I've distilled it down to the above.

Your claim that no "real man" would accept to a search is laughably false. Some of us don't see a police officer checking our car for drugs as a massive invasion of privacy, or an accusation of guilt, sometimes your in the wrong place at the wrong time and rather than wasting police time by complaining a real man would want to help the police to catch criminals by making their job as easy as possible.

 

[Ackmed]

I got an idea, lets generalize millions of people, for one!

Dont be an idiot.

 

[HAL9000]

Uhhh, that would be centuries. Not decades. And, it was a little over 6 decades ago that we bailed their asses out in a big war.

I was wondering why he said decades, I was thinking when was England V America in the 80's... Lol

 

[JS80]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=player_embedded

 

[EMPshockwave82]

I can understand that, I suppose, but generally speaking the way it goes is "let me search your car"...."no"...."Ok I'll get a warrant" 25 minutes later the search takes place anyway. Just let them do it, they will be satisfied that you've done nothing thats it no more problems. Why make the polices job more difficult they are there to help

The police are there to help people in trouble and stop people from breaking the law. If they have pulled you over they already either know or believe you have broken the law and they are not there to help you. After you have been pulled over it is their job to find anything and everything you have done wrong in the past 10 years so that you can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law they are sworn to uphold.

 

[Eli]

This argument is actually pretty interesting, lol.. Indeed, these are the very reasons we decided to leave your country and come here.

Obviously both methods work. Who really is to say which one is right? Each is right to the individual, depending on what they believe in. It's almost like a religion.

I would be willing to bet most people in America wouldn't be able to tolerate living over there, however I bet most people in the UK would be able to tolerate living here. It's difficult to take freedoms away from people, but it's easy to incorporate new ones.

You keep using guns as an example.. If you don't like guns, rather the violence associated with them, you can choose a city with a very low crime rate. I've certainly never had an issue with guns. I've never owned one, though I would like to change that one day.

Using suicide is silly though. If you want to kill yourself, it is not difficult.. you don't need a gun. At least use murder.

I would be curious to see the number of murders/homicides by any means in each country. I bet they wouldn't be as different as you think. Some people have no regard for life. That's animal, you can't "control" that out of people.

Though I could be wrong...

 

[cKGunslinger]

3/10


Wait..

 

[HAL9000]

The police are there to help people in trouble and stop people from breaking the law. If they have pulled you over they already either know or believe you have broken the law and they are not there to help you. After you have been pulled over it is there job to find anything and everything you have done wrong in the past 10 years so that you can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law they are sworn to uphold.

That seems fair.

This argument is actually pretty interesting, lol.. Indeed, these are the very reasons we decided to leave your country and come here.

Obviously both methods work. Who really is to say which one is right? Each is right to the individual, depending on what they believe in. It's almost like a religion.

I would be willing to bet most people in America wouldn't be able to tolerate living over there, however I bet most people in the UK would be able to tolerate living here. It's difficult to take freedoms away from people, but it's easy to incorporate new ones.

You keep using guns as an example.. If you don't like guns, rather the violence associated with them, you can choose a city with a very low crime rate. I've certainly never had an issue with guns. I've never owned one, though I would like to change that one day.

Using suicide is silly though. If you want to kill yourself, it is not difficult.. you don't need a gun. At least use murder.

Yeah sorry about that, it was the only statistic I could find quickly.

I would be curious to see the number of murders/homicides by any means in each country. I bet they wouldn't be as different as you think. Some people have no regard for life. That's animal, you can't "control" that out of people.

Though I could be wrong...

Statistics like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Just concern me, I am constantly hearing about someone getting shot in america, (there's a thread at the moment where a police officer shot a dog!)

The biggest issue for me about america isn't the gun crime, it's the fact that "people" (and i use the term loosely) like the westboro baptist church are not only tolerated (legally) but protected by law, it seems like an infringment on what I consider to be a right from hate.

I don't think either country is right, particularly with the example I gave about the US and the squatters rights issue over here, but to me hate is worse than squatting. I just cannot understand why so many americans when I give this argument respond with something like "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"... Sure that works for disagreements on a matter of opinion but hate is universal and objective not a subjective opinion.

 

[Born2bwire]

/me reads the title...

/me reads the posters name..

:awe:

/me reads the post.

:awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe::awe:

He probably has friends. Lots of people get jobs through friends. I got my mcdicks job from a friend during this bad recession until I could get a real job. Friends are lovely :biggrin:

Seeing how he was hell bent on charging his friend for some computer help I doubt he has very many friends.

 

[vi edit]

Just concern me, I am constantly hearing about someone getting shot in america, (there's a thread at the moment where a police officer shot a dog!)

About 95% of all "gun crime" in America is gang/drug related and in no siginificant way(by population %) affects the general population outside of having to pay for the cleanup and deadbeat hospital bills.

If you look at the overall homicide rates vs. the US and England they aren't that far off. It's like 1.3% for the UK and 1.5% for the US.

Gangbangers just like their gats.

 

[Eli]

That seems fair.

Yeah sorry about that, it was the only statistic I could find quickly.



Statistics like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Just concern me, I am constantly hearing about someone getting shot in america, (there's a thread at the moment where a police officer shot a dog!)

The biggest issue for me about america isn't the gun crime, it's the fact that "people" (and i use the term loosely) like the westboro baptist church are not only tolerated (legally) but protected by law, it seems like an infringment on what I consider to be a right from hate.

I don't think either country is right, particularly with the example I gave about the US and the squatters rights issue over here, but to me hate is worse than squatting. I just cannot understand why so many americans when I give this argument respond with something like "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"... Sure that works for disagreements on a matter of opinion but hate is universal and objective not a subjective opinion.

That quote is paramount to our ideals though; it captures them very well.

Hate is, unfortunately, subjective. It's easy to hide hate behind a belief. These people believe that homosexuals are wrong, or whatever their deal is. They hate them. That isn't against the law, shouldn't be against the law and will hopefully never be against the law.

We do have a special class of hate related crimes called "hate crimes" that garner more attention and more severe punishment than their "regular crime" counterpart. Hate is viewed as a negative thing overall, but unless you act on it.. it's an opinion.

Obviously, the vast majority of Americans don't agree with the WBC, and infact think they're a bunch of lunatics.But they're entitled to their opinion.

This really ties in with the whole laws thing. If you take away free speech, along with "the law is the law", then what? You have no voice, you're almost not a person. You essentially have no freedoms left. You're wholly at the whim of another entity...what you do, what you say..

That's scary, even to you, I imagine.

 

[Patranus]

Wait, so you smoked weed in your card and then bitched because you car smelled like weed?

 

[CZroe]

Heller, if you're serious, what did you expect to happen when you told him "no?" If you had said yes, he may have decided that you had nothing to hide. Even if this story is 100% completely true and not embellished or manipulated in any way, you get no sympathy because you did this to yourself and then had the nerve to blame the cop. WTF is wrong with you?!

 

[vi edit]

Wait, so you smoked weed in your card and then bitched because you car smelled like weed?

Next thing you know cops will be forcing you to do field sobriety tests if you smell like alcohol.

:hmm: