Best way to un-brainwash someone who just became "religious?"

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

Wow what a load of crap. When has a church ever put someone at a fiscal risk? Most churches don't even have any type of monetary reserve. Their budgets are based solely on what offering they receive. You are telling me 10% of your income would put you in fiscal risk? What happens if you get a raise and you go into another tax bracket? Someone needs to plan their finances better if you think 10% would put you at risk. Especially a PLANNED 10%.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Snatchface

another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton.

See below.

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

Ok Snatch. You didn't provide any rebuttal for what I said. Nothing besides name calling and insults. I certainly didn't "spew" anything about God. Therefore, since you can't partake in a logical discussion, your opinion is utterly worthless. You can't even comprehend my post. I'm sure you tossed it away as merely another rant from a "religious nut."

Prove me wrong, Snatch. Respond to my post with some sort of logical counter-argument.

Ok, apparently everyone here is much too ignorant to understand anything you are trying to say...despite your flagrant use of simple explicatives. So, even though it was very entertaining to witness your overreaction to my original post, hence identifying openly your own insecurities, I'll attempt to defy my ignorance and say something that may be meaningful to you in some intellectual way.


1.) Q: who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her...?
A very good friend. Who are you?

2.) Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious.
Perhaps, but if so it is likely only because I make points that challenge the idiocy of belief in the supernatural and devoting your entire life to it.

3.)Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive.
Oh...but they are. Sure there are things that you are allowed by your religion to decide for yourself; when to pee, what fragrance of shampoo to use. But what about the important things...right and wrong, good and evil. Although you obviously don't realize it, you have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by your church since you were very young. That is why you are defending it so vigorously. You take certain things as inherently right and wrong...and hence the church has done that thinking for you. To be truly free-thinking you must start with nothing and decide on your own. For the overwhelming majority of Christians (and likely most other religions) that is not the case...they need a book or a priest to tell them. And what's more, they need to threaten you with "hell" to enforce it! To prove my point I will ask you one simple question and challenge you to answer in non-religious terms - Why is human life valuable?

4.) If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people.
Oh, but not true at all. I was raised in both a Jewish and a Catholic home where both were practiced. And in college I used to get a visit from the Jehovas every Sunday and usually invited them in for coffee and a chat. I used to get a kick out of arguing them into a corner. Every week they would come back with a new rebuttal to last weeks challenge and leave scratching their heads again...but they never gave up.

Ball's in your court, babe.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: Tiger

the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him

That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.

Need I say more? All religious groups are like that? You are woefully misinformed and your ignorance makes you look silly. Stop while you can at least still SEE the line, I wouldn't want you to fall any further behind.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?

alright, I asked my cousin, who's a clinical phychologist, and he's never heard of that before... are you sure your friend is in an official cult? or did she just become religious? There's certainly a difference between believing and becoming all spooky. If its a cult, can you link us to the cult website site?

If your cousin has never heard of bipolar disorder, does not know how to define it, or has never met a psycho claiming he was either god or could talk to god, then he's lying about being a psychologist. I am a physician and they come into my ER almost every day.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Need I say more? All religious groups are like that? You are woefully misinformed and your ignorance makes you look silly. Stop while you can at least still SEE the line, I wouldn't want you to fall any further behind.

Again, simply stating that someone is wrong does not make it so. Do not all religious groups believe that they are correct and all other religious groups with differing beliefs are wrong? If not then maybe I really don't understand religion. If so, give me an example. From what I have seen, every Christian/Catholic/Protestant...etc...group thinks that only they are going to heaven and that everyone else who disagrees with them even slightly is going to hell, despite their actions for better or worse.

So now do something other than call me ignorant and misinformed...prove me wrong.

 

[Tiger]

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.

Now we come to it and finally see who has the problem. We've been hearing one side of the story.
Snatchface hates religion so much he can't stand the fact that his former friend has moved on in her life.
She has chosen not to associate with him any longer and of course it's the religions fault. It's her choice to make not yours.
Accept it and move on.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?

alright, I asked my cousin, who's a clinical phychologist, and he's never heard of that before... are you sure your friend is in an official cult? or did she just become religious? There's certainly a difference between believing and becoming all spooky. If its a cult, can you link us to the cult website site?

If your cousin has never heard of bipolar disorder, does not know how to define it, or has never met a psycho claiming he was either god or could talk to god, then he's lying about being a psychologist. I am a physician and they come into my ER almost every day.

Evidently reading comprehension was NOT in your curriculum. Unless you are a total moron you would see he meant his cousin had never heard of religion as a causation for Bi-Polar. Obviously you are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion and will have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

Wow what a load of crap. When has a church ever put someone at a fiscal risk? Most churches don't even have any type of monetary reserve. Their budgets are based solely on what offering they receive. You are telling me 10% of your income would put you in fiscal risk? What happens if you get a raise and you go into another tax bracket? Someone needs to plan their finances better if you think 10% would put you at risk. Especially a PLANNED 10%.

If you are in the position that you can't pay your current bills then giving 10% is not a good idea,besides from the tone of the OP's post I get the feeling that this is one of those outfits that likes a much bigger cut of your assets than 10%

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Tiger

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.

Now we come to it and finally see who has the problem. We've been hearing one side of the story.
Snatchface hates religion so much he can't stand the fact that his former friend has moved on in her life.
She has chosen not to associate with him any longer and of course it's the religions fault. It's her choice to make not yours.
Accept it and move on.

I agree. Snatchface, you have issues.

Just leave it be. Why does it really matter? What if your friend said they were homosexual? Would you be as upset?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Tiger

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.

Now we come to it and finally see who has the problem. We've been hearing one side of the story.
Snatchface hates religion so much he can't stand the fact that his former friend has moved on in her life.
She has chosen not to associate with him any longer and of course it's the religions fault. It's her choice to make not yours.
Accept it and move on.

I saw that from the very beginning. Snatchface thinks he is so brilliant that HIS way is the only way. Little does he realize how similar he is to his Christian Friend. Arrogance is a bigger problem for him than most pro-athletes. Not really extraordinary to see that from someone in the medical field. They all have that.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?

alright, I asked my cousin, who's a clinical phychologist, and he's never heard of that before... are you sure your friend is in an official cult? or did she just become religious? There's certainly a difference between believing and becoming all spooky. If its a cult, can you link us to the cult website site?

If your cousin has never heard of bipolar disorder, does not know how to define it, or has never met a psycho claiming he was either god or could talk to god, then he's lying about being a psychologist. I am a physician and they come into my ER almost every day.

Evidently reading comprehension was NOT in your curriculum. Unless you are a total moron you would see he meant his cousin had never heard of religion
as a causation for Bi-Polar. Obviously you are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion and will have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

lol @ rectal-cranial inversion

Religion causes Bi-Polar?

Where the hell did you come up with that? I've never even seen the two words in the same paragraph.

 

[The Sauce]

Just leave it be. Why does it really matter? What if your friend said they were homosexual? Would you be as upset?

My, oh my. I would have been 1,000x happier if she had told me that she was a lesbian. Nice example though of something that Christianity preaches as wrong for no apparent reason. I didn't think of that one.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Just leave it be. Why does it really matter? What if your friend said they were homosexual? Would you be as upset?

My, oh my. I would have been 1,000x happier if she had told me that she was a lesbian. Nice example though of something that Christianity preaches as wrong for no apparent reason. I didn't think of that one.

WTF?

Step away from the crackpipe.

I guess you sort-of answered my question, but did you have to put all that religious nonsense in your sentance?

 

[The Sauce]

Religion causes Bi-Polar?

Where the hell did you come up with that? I've never even seen the two words in the same paragraph.

Read again dude. You misquoted. One of the criteria used to diagnose bipolar disorder (mania, specifically) is the presence of hyperreligiosity. I don't remember all the others but some of them are: delusions of grandeur, hypersexuality, pressured speech, lack of sleep, impulsive spending... Look it up before you accuse me of being wrong.

 

[Eli]

This always happens with these kind of threads. Everybody gets caught up in the technicalities and what is actually relevant slips the mind.

Instead of arguing about all this stuff that doesen't really even matter, we should be asking.. why do you care?

If they are your friend, you will accept whatever choices they make for themselves. If you cannot live with or are uncomfortable with those choices, you need to stare at a mirror for a while.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

Wow what a load of crap. When has a church ever put someone at a fiscal risk? Most churches don't even have any type of monetary reserve. Their budgets are based solely on what offering they receive. You are telling me 10% of your income would put you in fiscal risk? What happens if you get a raise and you go into another tax bracket? Someone needs to plan their finances better if you think 10% would put you at risk. Especially a PLANNED 10%.

If you are in the position that you can't pay your current bills then giving 10% is not a good idea,besides from the tone of the OP's post I get the feeling that this is one of those outfits that likes a much bigger cut of your assets than 10%

I feel that you have had a bad experience. In all the churches I have attended, those who could not afford 10% gave it anyway because they knew members of our church would help support them. One particular family was given loads of food every week as well as use of church vans for their family.

They are some of the poorest people I have ever met, yet they still gave. It is better for the poor to give little than the rich to give more.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Religion causes Bi-Polar?

Where the hell did you come up with that? I've never even seen the two words in the same paragraph.

Read again dude. You misquoted. One of the criteria used to diagnose bipolar disorder (mania, specifically) is the presence of hyperreligiosity. I don't remember all the others but some of them are: delusions of grandeur, hypersexuality, pressured speech, lack of sleep, impulsive spending... Look it up before you accuse me of being wrong.

You didn't directly say it, but some of us can read the implication of a paragraph. Really I love how full of themselves most doctors are.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

Wow what a load of crap. When has a church ever put someone at a fiscal risk? Most churches don't even have any type of monetary reserve. Their budgets are based solely on what offering they receive. You are telling me 10% of your income would put you in fiscal risk? What happens if you get a raise and you go into another tax bracket? Someone needs to plan their finances better if you think 10% would put you at risk. Especially a PLANNED 10%.

If you are in the position that you can't pay your current bills then giving 10% is not a good idea,besides from the tone of the OP's post I get the feeling that this is one of those outfits that likes a much bigger cut of your assets than 10%

I feel that you have had a bad experience. In all the churches I have attended, those who could not afford 10% gave it anyway because they knew members of our church would help support them. One particular family was given loads of food every week as well as use of church vans for their family.

They are some of the poorest people I have ever met, yet they still gave. It is better for the poor to give little than the rich to give more.

With all due respect to your beliefs, there are a lot of cult like groups that don't really care about how you manage to feed and cloth yourself,they just want every dime they can lay their hands on

As for my experiences,my money is for my use,I'd prefer to blow it all on cocaine,booze and men before I gave one penny to any church.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Any group that encourages you to help them when that means putting yourself fiscally at risk sounds suspect to me.Thanks but I'll keep my wallet closed and continue doing my worshipping on my pillow on Sunday mornings

Wow what a load of crap. When has a church ever put someone at a fiscal risk? Most churches don't even have any type of monetary reserve. Their budgets are based solely on what offering they receive. You are telling me 10% of your income would put you in fiscal risk? What happens if you get a raise and you go into another tax bracket? Someone needs to plan their finances better if you think 10% would put you at risk. Especially a PLANNED 10%.

If you are in the position that you can't pay your current bills then giving 10% is not a good idea,besides from the tone of the OP's post I get the feeling that this is one of those outfits that likes a much bigger cut of your assets than 10%

I feel that you have had a bad experience. In all the churches I have attended, those who could not afford 10% gave it anyway because they knew members of our church would help support them. One particular family was given loads of food every week as well as use of church vans for their family.

They are some of the poorest people I have ever met, yet they still gave. It is better for the poor to give little than the rich to give more.

I've never gone to church or donated or anything to one..

It's a mutation of the whole belief of "it's better to give than to recieve", IMO. It just makes it sour for some reason when the Church is bestilling these beliefs on you, and then they ask you to donate out of the goodness of your heart. Heh.

I suppose this post has nothing to do with the issue. I was just babbling.

 

[The Sauce]

Evidently reading comprehension was NOT in your curriculum. Unless you are a total moron you would see he meant his cousin had never heard of religion as a causation for Bi-Polar. Obviously you are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion and will have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

Nope you got it all wrong, as expected. Apparently reading, period, is something not included in your curriculum. Go back, try reading, and then try to post again. See below for more proff of your ignorance.

B. Affective exam: ?SIG: E-CAPS/ SIG: DARTS?

(click below)

Depressive symptoms
Manic Symptoms



Depressive symptoms: The patient must have depressed mood (or anhedonia) and 4 of 9 below for 2 weeks to qualify for a major depressive episode:

Sleep- increased or decreased
Interests- lack of pleasure in previously pleasurable activities (anhedonia), including sex
Guilt/worthlessness-this item is often overlooked, but is surprisingly common
Energy- decreased
Concentration- diminished
Appetite- poor, often w/weight loss that is unintentional
Psychomotor- agitation or retardation (difficulty getting out of bed? trouble sitting still?)
Suicidal ideation- can start by asking ?Do you ever feel that life is not worth living??
(and don?t forget to ask about Homicidal ideation- you can ask ?Is there anyone that you are angry with??)



Manic Symptoms: The patient must have 3 of 7 below for 1 week to qualify for a manic episode:

Sleep- decreased need for sleep (c.f. Insomnia in depression: pt can?t sleep, but needs to)
Impulsivity- especially impulsive spending, but ask also about sex, drugs, violence
Grandiosity- may manifest itself as grandiose delusions or also hyperreligiosity
Distractibility
Agitation
Racing
Thoughts (?flight of ideas?)
Speech - pressured

 

[Geekbabe]

Lol, look at the Catholics,pass the plate,helped pay for passing the altar boys!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Eli
This always happens with these kind of threads. Everybody gets caught up in the technicalities and what is actually relevant slips the mind.

Instead of arguing about all this stuff that doesen't really even matter, we should be asking.. why do you care?

If they are your friend, you will accept whatever choices they make for themselves. If you cannot live with or are uncomfortable with those choices, you need to stare at a mirror for a while.

Not if the choices are harmful. According to him it seems like she is being manipulated by these "Fund A Mental Cases" This is not just going to church, this is changing all her friends because of a Religion. Sounds extremely Cultish to me.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Evidently reading comprehension was NOT in your curriculum. Unless you are a total moron you would see he meant his cousin had never heard of religion as a causation for Bi-Polar. Obviously you are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion and will have a hard time admitting you were wrong.

Nope you got it all wrong, as expected. Apparently reading, period, is something not included in your curriculum. Go back, try reading, and then try to post again. See below for more proff of your ignorance.

B. Affective exam: ?SIG: E-CAPS/ SIG: DARTS?

(click below)

Depressive symptoms
Manic Symptoms



Depressive symptoms: The patient must have depressed mood (or anhedonia) and 4 of 9 below for 2 weeks to qualify for a major depressive episode:

Sleep- increased or decreased
Interests- lack of pleasure in previously pleasurable activities (anhedonia), including sex
Guilt/worthlessness-this item is often overlooked, but is surprisingly common
Energy- decreased
Concentration- diminished
Appetite- poor, often w/weight loss that is unintentional
Psychomotor- agitation or retardation (difficulty getting out of bed? trouble sitting still?)
Suicidal ideation- can start by asking ?Do you ever feel that life is not worth living??
(and don?t forget to ask about Homicidal ideation- you can ask ?Is there anyone that you are angry with??)



Manic Symptoms: The patient must have 3 of 7 below for 1 week to qualify for a manic episode:

Sleep- decreased need for sleep (c.f. Insomnia in depression: pt can?t sleep, but needs to)
Impulsivity- especially impulsive spending, but ask also about sex, drugs, violence
Grandiosity- may manifest itself as grandiose delusions or also hyperreligiosity
Distractibility
Agitation
Racing
Thoughts (?flight of ideas?)
Speech - pressured

You aren't interpreting it correctly. Bi-polar isn't caused by hyperreligiosity, hyperreligiosity is caused by bi-polar. Religion is just the medium that they've grasped to help explain and support their "grandiose delusions".

 

[ThaGrandCow]

You should give them some CRACK!!!!!
That would un-brainwash them.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Eli
This always happens with these kind of threads. Everybody gets caught up in the technicalities and what is actually relevant slips the mind.

Instead of arguing about all this stuff that doesen't really even matter, we should be asking.. why do you care?

If they are your friend, you will accept whatever choices they make for themselves. If you cannot live with or are uncomfortable with those choices, you need to stare at a mirror for a while.

Not if the choices are harmful. According to him it seems like she is being manipulated by these "Fund A Mental Cases" This is not just going to church, this is changing all her friends because of a Religion. Sounds extremely Cultish to me.

Yeah, and I knew someone would bring that up after I posted it. I agree, that if the choices are for the worst.. then as a friend, your in the position to "help"..

But there is no way to unbrainwash someone. It's up to them to change their mind. If you're really that concerned about them, perhaps you should contact her family. Really, there isn't much you can do other than talk with them and let others around her know what you think is going on.