Best way to un-brainwash someone who just became "religious?"

[silverpig]

Tell her that believing in a God who loves you is all cool, but that you don't have to go to church and give all your money away to get to know him. If she can read, she can do it all herself. Tell her to think about this: What if she picked the wrong religion and every time she goes to church she's just pissing the real God off more and more?



good ol' homer has an answer for everything.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

There's nothing you can do. Once someone is sucked in, they will never escape.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: RalphKramden

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I think it's time AT imposes a ban on all discussions pertaining to religion. People are not able to keep their cool, and it's nothing but a wais of bandwidht.

Most people in this thread seem to have kept there cool..well after the first few posts

Yea, the first 3.

Maybe the original post reminded them of their own doubts.

Truth fears no inquiry red...

Makes you wonder, then, doesn't it?

 

[NickelTitanium]

Everyone needs religion sometime in their lives. Try to talk to her. Beyond that, you can do nothing. It is equivalent to not being to control everything that your kids will do. Just hope that she will have a good foundation to make decisions on.

peace out

 

[SagaLore]

Damn those Christians for saving his soul! Damn them to heaven! :|

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Everybody's looking for something that's gonna set em free and make them feel safe at the same time.. the only such thing that will do that is believe in yourself and your abilities.

I disagree with your premise that only believing in yourself and abilities will "set you free and make you feel safe" I think that that certainly can, however so too can religion.

Anytime in this life when my back's been up against the wall, no spirit in the sky came down and rescued me..
once the idea entered my head that *I* am my own best friend and protector, life got a lot easier and a lot more simple

You are somewhat missing the point. Religion is not expecting God to come down from the heavens and personally save you whenever you have a problem. Religion is placing your belief in God, that he will help you do the right thing. It is a two way street.

Actually I've never "expected" much of anything from anybody,the idea of looking up at the sky while talking to myself seems rather outragous,probably cause chemicals that good are hard to come by these days

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
Damn those Christians for saving his soul! Damn them to heaven! :|

Yeah the next thing you know she'll become a red assed Neo Conservative Republican

 

[RalphKramden]

Originally posted by: NickelTitanium
Everyone needs religion sometime in their lives.

Everyone is entitled to whatever the fsck they want. The only exclusions are things that my loved ones may do to hurt themselves, or anything that persons may perpetrate hurting other innocents.
That said, your statement is ABSOLUTELY false.

 

[The Sauce]

another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton.

See below.

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: Booster
It's important to believe in God... .

Why? In this case it seems to be completely couterproductive.

 

[The Sauce]

And while I'm at it Snatchface, you are a selfish, self centered individual only interested in what is best for you, not your friend. Have you even taken a good look at how much better your friends life might be now? Have you? I highly doubt it. Your post tells me immediately that you are only concerned with yourself at the expence of your friends and their well being. My suggestion, lay off your friend, let them go their own way. If it turns out that it's wrong, they'll be back and then you can say "I told you so." If not and they turn out for the better, of which I suspect they will, then that only stands to benefit you as well.

But your pathetic attempts at "dereligioning" your friend are beyond dispicable and repulsive. Stop being so selfish and try to be a friend, not an executioner.

My friend got "sick" and I am trying to make her better. Any friend would do that. Belonging to a exclusionist cult is no way to handle your problems...even if she "feels better." In that regard any religious organization that practices this way, feeding on the weak to line their coiffeurs is what is truly despicable. You don't have to defend them. You can live the fantasy of god without supporting Churches.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Geekbabe

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Everybody's looking for something that's gonna set em free and make them feel safe at the same time.. the only such thing that will do that is believe in yourself and your abilities.

I disagree with your premise that only believing in yourself and abilities will "set you free and make you feel safe" I think that that certainly can, however so too can religion.

Anytime in this life when my back's been up against the wall, no spirit in the sky came down and rescued me..
once the idea entered my head that *I* am my own best friend and protector, life got a lot easier and a lot more simple

You are somewhat missing the point. Religion is not expecting God to come down from the heavens and personally save you whenever you have a problem. Religion is placing your belief in God, that he will help you do the right thing. It is a two way street.

You don't need religion to tell you to do the right thing. If you can't do that on your own then all the religion in the world ain't gonna help you.

Instead of getting your knickers in a knot over this issue, why not just accept the fact that he is not religious and stick to the original point of this post: he is worried that his friend is ignoring the reality of the real world for a utopia where you don't have to think for yourself.

I have seen some of my friends go through this. It isn't pretty. What these people really need is not a bandaid-instant oatmeal-quick fix answer. They need a structure that emphasizes self reliance, confidence and the ability to see problems starting before they get big. They need love and compassion and to be honest with themselves. While religious belief can help with this, the fact remains that Fundies tend to prey on the vulnerable and force them to conform their idea of religious belief. This is not healthy. It is mind control. Each religion has its sects that are more like a cult than a religion. That is where the problems start.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: LordRaiden

I don't understand why your point of view is 'correct' and perfect, while hers is not. Perhaps you are brainwashed youself and you don't even realize it.

I agree with you totally. Snatchface, what makes you right and her wrong? Are you sure you're not the one who's wrong? Or is your Ego telling you that impossible for you to ever be wrong? Are you infallable? Cause if you are, you must be God, and I certainly don't think that fits your description one bit. SO guess what. It's entirely possible that you're wrong and your ego is so big you're not willing to admit it. Grow up and get real.

I am not infallible, but I am sure a lot less infallible than your god. If I had the power to stop things like 9-11 and knew about them I would have. Not just stood there like a foob. Funny how god gets away with things that people like us would have been arrested for... Your god is either impotent, ignorant, apathetic or malicious. You would probably be better off worshipping me, or a tree...or anything where you might have reasonable expectations of what is real and what is possible.

 

[Tallgeese]

One of my aunts got sucked in by the Jehovah's Witness when she was at a rough point in her life (divorce, struggling to get a job after years of domestic engineering, etc.)

It was downright SCARY how they took over her entire life.
She eventually came to her senses, but only after years of them controlling her every move (especially financially).

If this is the type of situation you are talking about, then yes...something is DEFINITELY wrong.
What you can do about it: not much.

I do not, however, think that belief in God is what's wrong here with your friend.
There are many "false" teachers (and quite frankly there always have been), and by that I mean that instead of having a focus on supporting Christians in their relationship with Christ, the organization is only concerned with one thing: money.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: Tiger

the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him

That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: LordRaiden

I don't understand why your point of view is 'correct' and perfect, while hers is not. Perhaps you are brainwashed youself and you don't even realize it.

I agree with you totally. Snatchface, what makes you right and her wrong? Are you sure you're not the one who's wrong? Or is your Ego telling you that impossible for you to ever be wrong? Are you infallable? Cause if you are, you must be God, and I certainly don't think that fits your description one bit. SO guess what. It's entirely possible that you're wrong and your ego is so big you're not willing to admit it. Grow up and get real.

I am not infallible, but I am sure a lot less infallible than your god. If I had the power to stop things like 9-11 and knew about them I would have. Not just stood there like the FOOB that your god is. Funny how god gets away with things that people like us would have been arrested for...

That's a pretty simple minded mistake there SnatchFace. Blaming God for tragedies.
Having said that, I don't believe in any organized religion.

Now about your friend, as I see it she no longer is, by her own words. So nothing you do will matter now. Matter of fact she may even be pushed further into religion if you argue with her. Especially considering those "brainwashers" are a lot better at convincing her than you, and given your weak reasoning skills so far, I'm not surprised. It's quite unfortunate, because it just so happens that you are right about them all being either liars or misguided (religious followers that is).

 

[The Sauce]

Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?

 

[The Sauce]

That's a pretty simple minded mistake there SnatchFace. Blaming God for tragedies.
Having said that, I don't believe in any organized religion.

Other than simply saying so, you have actually done nothing to explain or prove that I have made a mistake. If god is omniscient and omnipotent, knows something bad is going to happen but does not stop it then he either wants it to happen, does not care, or is impotent to do anything about it. Either way, not someone who is deserving of anyone's worship (not that anyone is).

 

[hdeck]

why not respect her enough as a person to hold whatever beliefs she wants...

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: hdeck
why not respect her enough as a person to hold whatever beliefs she wants...

perhaps if you actually read the rest of the thread you can answer that question for yourself.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?

Well at least you are well on your way to understanding the human race if you think most people are insane. And no unfortunately, I am not being sarcastic.

Other than simply saying so, you have actually done nothing to explain or prove that I have made a mistake. If god is omniscient and omnipotent, knows something bad is going to happen but does not stop it then he either wants it to happen, does not care, or is impotent to do anything about it. Either way, not someone I want to be worshipping (not that anyone is).

That is true, and I was about to, I started to, but I deleted it before hitting reply because that is a religious topic that would take a while, require some examples to explain and would be getting off the topic of discussion so I turned my post around to address your friend, or former friend. Sorry to hear you are losing a friend by the way. But you should probably try and work it out if possible, though you'll have a rough time of it if she is unreasonable. if it were me, I might not waste time with an unreasonable person.

Btw, you condradicted yourself when you called God omnipotent and impotent in the same sentence. Try reading what you wrote again. That would leave either wants it to happen or does not care as the only 2 alternatives. I could go further, and state examples of when these would be the right things to have happen, but that is a topic for another thread at another time, and I have written too much already. The ADD laden ATOT community frowns upon long posts unless relevant to the topic. And sometimes even then.

 

[XZeroII]

Snatch: The reason why I find everything you are saying foolish because you just seem to arbitrarily call what she joined a "cult" and started assuming it is bad. What proof do you have that she is now worse off than she was before? You say she is throwing her money away to this church and thus throwing away her life. What proof do you have of this? What has she done that warrants such harsh words? Unless she is struggling to get food at night, while everyone else at the church are driving BMW's, I don't see a problem. Maybe she really feels better? Maybe it's because of your lifestyle that she was broke to begin with and these people are teaching her financial responsibility. You are a poor friend if you expect your friends to all believe in what you believe in. Why not just accept who she is now and show some support so she can get back on her feet rather than just criticizing her? You are just upset that she is now doing ok w/o you. BTW: Why do you make yourself look like such an idiot by talking about jesus being long dead? You have no idea what you are talking about and that is why it's not persuading her. Those christians must seem incredibly smart by comparison to you if you keep talking out of your @$$.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Snatchface

Originally posted by: LordRaiden

I don't understand why your point of view is 'correct' and perfect, while hers is not. Perhaps you are brainwashed youself and you don't even realize it.

I agree with you totally. Snatchface, what makes you right and her wrong? Are you sure you're not the one who's wrong? Or is your Ego telling you that impossible for you to ever be wrong? Are you infallable? Cause if you are, you must be God, and I certainly don't think that fits your description one bit. SO guess what. It's entirely possible that you're wrong and your ego is so big you're not willing to admit it. Grow up and get real.

I am not infallible, but I am sure a lot less infallible than your god. If I had the power to stop things like 9-11 and knew about them I would have. Not just stood there like a foob. Funny how god gets away with things that people like us would have been arrested for... Your god is either impotent, ignorant, apathetic or malicious. You would probably be better off worshipping me, or a tree...or anything where you might have reasonable expectations of what is real and what is possible.

There are other possibilities, I kind of like Anne Rice's take in "Memnoch the Devil" where God doesn't know where he came from, so he created this universe to see if he could create something like himself, an experiment. Where a lot of religion fails to interest me is where they stick to 2 thousand year old text instead of 2 thousand years past of progress, and these so called "christian scientists" whose job is not scientific work, it is trying to fabricate rebuttals to scientific truths that go against what they believe.

One of my friends pretty much did the same thing, and started talking about garbage like how carbon dating is incorrect, I guess some sects want to halt scientific progress? Do they want to make the world like it was 2 thousand years ago, where everyone lived what 40 years if you were lucky.

 

[element]

Here's an idea, if she has a computer (it doesn't take an expensive 3 Ghz machine to log onto ATOT and chat) Have her come here and talk to us, the geekiness and intelligent (I almost said that with a straight face hehe) conversation may rub off on her.

 

[Soybomb]

Thats a rough situation man, but if money's tight and she's going through a rough situation in life she might have attached to this as a way to escape. Its sad but alot of the extreme religions prey on people when they're weak during rough times. I think the best you can do is be a friend and try to just be a subtle check to the "real world." If you push her too hard against it she might go to them more.