• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Best way to un-brainwash someone who just became "religious?"

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: XZeroII
Snatch: The reason why I find everything you are saying foolish because you just seem to arbitrarily call what she joined a "cult" and started assuming it is bad. What proof do you have that she is now worse off than she was before? You say she is throwing her money away to this church and thus throwing away her life. What proof do you have of this? What has she done that warrants such harsh words? Unless she is struggling to get food at night, while everyone else at the church are driving BMW's, I don't see a problem. Maybe she really feels better? Maybe it's because of your lifestyle that she was broke to begin with and these people are teaching her financial responsibility. You are a poor friend if you expect your friends to all believe in what you believe in. Why not just accept who she is now and show some support so she can get back on her feet rather than just criticizing her? You are just upset that she is now doing ok w/o you. BTW: Why do you make yourself look like such an idiot by talking about jesus being long dead? You have no idea what you are talking about and that is why it's not persuading her. Those christians must seem incredibly smart by comparison to you if you keep talking out of your @$$.
Click to expand...

That is the biggest spouting of garbage I've ever seen here. Wow.
You have absolutely no interest in this girls welfare where Snatch would. Who are you to judge from your armchair in front of your computer this girls plight?

A couple of you bashing Snatch are now managing to tick me off. That's really difficult to do.

Now, why is it people that are down-and-out are usually the ones that find religion or join a cult when it was absolutely unneccessary before? They're in a vulnerable state of mind that's why. These cults are notorious for preying on the weak-minded but you seem to believe that since Snatch doesn't appreciate their victimizing this girl you take it as a complete stance against religion in general.
Get off your high horse about your own religion when it has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. You believe whatever you want and don't try pushing it on others as a cult would.


 
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Originally posted by: Tiger
the worst part of this whole thing is that she's now going to spend a lot of time and energy preaching her new found fundamentalist viewpoints to him
Click to expand...
That's an assumption not based on fact.
Nowhere in the original post did he say she was preaching to him or trying to convert him.
Why is it so hard to admit that the OP is the one with the problem?
Click to expand...

She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.
Click to expand...

I can kind of understand why you're against it now. Honestly, she needs to realize that yes, she may believe that's what's true, but seperating herself from the people that love her is NOT WHAT CHRIST WOULD DO. She can have her religion, but honestly if she wants to show her friends her religion the best way is to live a life that includes them. If it's so lifechanging her friends will see it and want to be a part of it. If it's not, they'll just let her go on her merry way until she realizes it on her own. You can't attack her religion, people are stubborn. If you do something actively against it you'll push her away. Encourage her to keep on doing stuff with you though.
 
She has, in fact, said that she does not think that she could be my friend anymore, because unless I join her exact "sect" or whatever the hell you call it, then I will not be going to "heaven" with her and she does not want to be attached to anyone who will not be going to heaven with her. That invludes 99.9999% of everyone in the world. But essentially all religious groups are like that. Very exclusionist. Prettys sick if you ask me. Its just an unhealthy menatl attitude to have...maybe a psychiatric illness.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's where I was. And I got treated like crap because my family did not belong to the 'club', which sort of made me 'less than'. Oh, the stories I can tell! What makes me the maddest is that I was stupid/vulnerable/weak enough to go along with it for a time. Oy vey.

Fortunately, I was able to see that for all the preaching and bible thumping, there was very little that resembled Jesus in that group. And that's what made it fairly easy for me to say 'see ya!'.

There is nothing wrong with having faith/spirituality. But you have to be very careful when it comes to religious groups, because they are at heart just social constructions.

 
Originally posted by: Snatchface
another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton.
Click to expand...
See below.

Originally posted by: Triumph
I agree that she shouldn't throw her money at this church and ignore her financial troubles.

But who the f&ck are you to make decisions for her about something as personal as religion? Your post is insulting to everyone on this board who is remotely religious. Listen, a$$hole, free thinking and religious are NOT mutually exclusive. If you believe that, then you haven't bothered to talk to enough religious people, and you are living with your own ignorance.

I can't speak to her situation any more because you've described it through a very distorted lense. As far as I know, it could just as easily be a local church youth group as it could be the Branch Davidians or Raelians (sp?). You seem to classify them all as one and the same.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Ok Snatch. You didn't provide any rebuttal for what I said. Nothing besides name calling and insults. I certainly didn't "spew" anything about God. Therefore, since you can't partake in a logical discussion, your opinion is utterly worthless. You can't even comprehend my post. I'm sure you tossed it away as merely another rant from a "religious nut."

Prove me wrong, Snatch. Respond to my post with some sort of logical counter-argument.
 
I believe there is something bigger and greater than me...other than skoorb's post count. There has to be. Look around you....everything has an order to it. Everything has an equation attached to its ass. As to whether or not you believe someone or something is keeping it moving or deus ex machina ... that's a whole other can of worms.

Honestly, however, I generally disagree with a church. Sure, it provides a nice, simple means for the common(read: sheep) public to follow the bible and live decent lives, but it's like our educational system. It seems to cater to the lowest common denominator. The common people who don't have time nor inclination to read what their being told and take meaning from it themselves. My suggestion is this. Talk to her ABOUT her faith instead of going neh, you're wrong. Essentially, you're doing what she's doing. You're coming on AT asking for a quick fix. A 10 step program to unconverting someone. Instead, sit her down and ask her to explain it all. Let her go into her rhetoric on how god has done yadda yadda and the church blah blah...but listen like a lawyer or good conversationalist does. Then pry into those uncomfortable, hastily covered up points. First off, the church should not be taking money from those in need. It should be reluctantly accepted at best with all of it and more going back to the person in terms of aid. The bible even states to give unto caesar what is his, and god his own. Money is legal tender of the US government...not the church. If she wants, she can ask the church to print out currency and use that. Also, the bible preaches acceptance more than it preaches condemnation. And eventually, you'll start to crack her false faith apart and she'll prolly try and shut you out...then just ask her what good is faith that is so easily broken? The goal of it is for her to think about her religion and affiliation. Either she'll leave it altogether (most likely), or she'll find her own way to the big guy upstairs(what I'm hopin for). Either way, she will prolly not stay with her "Cult" as she'll have developed different beliefs and will not go about "preaching" because honestly, the more outspoken you are about your faith, the more likely you are to alienate the people you wanna convert...which is the exact opposite of what you try to accomplish. Even scripture preaches to live your own life well, because that will have a far greater effect than mere words.

In short, the goal is an evolution of her beliefs, not a digression. you want her to think...thinking is the enemy of the cult. Thinking critically, testing her faith daily until it either disappears, or becomes something stronger and altogether different.

Or you can continue to call us Christian folk names and not do anything.
 
They have a right to believe what they believe as does everyone else. It sounds like as a friend, you should just talk to them about how to handle their money wisely as that seems to be a big issue. If that church makes it any kind of requirement to give money then she needs to leave.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Triumph



Prove me wrong, Snatch. Respond to my post with some sort of logical counter-argument.
Click to expand...
How about trying to prove yourself right first?
Click to expand...

What do I have to prove? His post is entirely about how can he decide someone else's religion for them, because he thinks it is stupid. I have a problem with that. I guess you missed the point of my post too.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph

What do I have to prove?
Click to expand...
I bestow upon you the responsibility of finding out this snatches friend whereabouts, go to the place where she worships and beyond a shadow of a doubt refute snatches claim that it is a cult.
Since you most likely will not embark upon that quest stop defending the girls stance.

 
Originally posted by: Snatchface
One of my best friends from the past several years was having a bad time with money/relations and while vunerable fell into the hands of these fundamentalist Christian groups and is suddenly a holy-roller. I realize that for most people who have been brainwashed since birth about the "big-daddy-in-the-sky," undoing this is probably a lot more difficult, but she is fresh fodder. It is simply unthinkable that she could now have gone from such a wonderful, free-thinking, intelligent person to another shuffling, brainless, god-spewing automaton. She has gone from having money problem to ignoring them and giving her money to the church (thereby throwing away her life and feeding the cult), and from having relation problems to giving them up and replacing them with her new cult (religion). It is difficult for me to even talk to her anymore because every time she says "Jesus" my skin just crawls. I try explaining to her that Jesus, if such a person existed, has been dead a long time and is nothing more than dust by now but the brainwashing is just too strong. I want my friend back...sane again. What can be done? I've tried talking, reason, intervention...but the fantasy prevails.
Click to expand...

This is a tricky situation. You need to first decide whether or not you feel she is at risk some how... or, if she is just worse off now than before. If you, as her friend, can honestly decide she is worse off, than you do have a right to let her know. I've read over and over in this thread that he doesn't have the right to choose what she believes... that is absolutely true, but he certainly has the right to voice his opinion. Afterall, Christians try to convert people ALL THE TIME. One thing you must try not to do is talk about Christianity like you did in this thread. To be honest, your hatred for Christianity is quite sickening. It almost seems like you are the one with the real problem. But, if you truly do feel she is worse off(not you)... and I certainly wouldn't just count on your opinion... you can do something. Talking to her through reason and intervening is NOT going to work. That is actually counter-productive. She is going to tell all her new friends about it and they will draw her closer. Especially if you use wording like you did in the first post. What you are going to have to do is absolutely love her. You have got to let her know you don't like what she is doing, but you still support what she wants to do. What I find with alot of religious groups is that it is more or less politics. Isla hit it right on the head. They are going to rely more on themselves than on Jesus and usually will fall. You have got to remain someone she can count on when that happens. Right now she probably isn't ready to listen why you don't agree so don't tell her. She knows your stance so now the best thing you can do is support her. If you truly love her and want to see what's best for her, you will let her make her own decision. Everytime you try to talk her out of it, you are pushing her closer to the group.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph


I guess you missed the point of my post too.
Click to expand...
You mean your point wasn't that Snatchface was an asshole? That was the only thing that you said that stood out.
 
By the attitude of your post you are the wrong person to try and do anything. Being religious is fine, but she needs to realize that it's not going to solve all her problems. She also needs to realize that church is an institution of man, with all the caveats that come with that. The best thing she can do is talk with other Christians, not limited to those that attend the same church or are the same denomination as her. And actually read the Bible herself and not let someone else's interpretation of it define what she believes.
 
religion at best is a waste of time and a biggest lie ever, and at worst is the most evil creation ever created by man. i say leave her alone and let her ruin her life more.
 
Originally posted by: rubix
religion at best is a waste of time and a biggest lie ever, and at worst is the most evil creation ever created by man. i say leave her alone and let her ruin her life more.
Click to expand...
It isn't going to ruin her life, come on now.. don't be rediculous.

 
well since she isn't a 7 year old alter boy her chances of her life being ruined are significantly less i guess.
 
Originally posted by: rubix
religion at best is a waste of time and a biggest lie ever, and at worst is the most evil creation ever created by man. i say leave her alone and let her ruin her life more.
Click to expand...

now you just sound silly.

and if you're trying to prove something...grammar counts. the phrase you want is "THE biggest lie ever". and you should be using commas.
 
it's a typo. and i am not going to correct it. and since you are the grammar master why don't you point out that i never capitalize anything either and that i started the last 2 sentences with "and" and that i type in run-on sentences. you'll look extra smart then.

i will however award you 3 jesus points, so your chances of getting into heaven have increased slightly.
 
two very good friends of mine went loco as well. one i still keep in touch with, the other i don't. it's hard because i mourn the people they used to be, not to mention that they are both childhood friends. the answer is, you can't unbrainwash someone. they have to be ready and have the revelation on their own to snap out of it.
 
All you people that talk about religion as if it's the worst thing on the planet baffle me.

I mean, sure.. much of it is nonsense. But what the hell is wrong with believing in something?
 
You seem to think that there is something inherently wrong with religion : there isn't.

If it's a branch of Christianity, chances are that it preaches good morals, which everyone could use (Don't kill, Don't Steal, etc)

Having been said, your attitude towards religion as a "stupid-ifying" influence is simply an outstanding beacon of your intolerance for other's ideas and beliefs: The only one being "cult like" and "illogical" in behavior in this thread are those who categorically place all religious people as "drones". While such an attitude may be popularly accepted in some social circles, that does not validate the fact that it is simply one of biggotry.

If you really are her friend, explain that you do not agree with what she is doing, but that's all you should do as a friend. If you continue to make biggoted remarks about all God-believing people as being "mindless drones", then you will only solidify her beliefs; and if this is a feduciary draining cult, that could cause more harm. If it is simply a once-a-week meeting community, then there is nothing to fear.
 
Originally posted by: Snatchface
Have you ever noticed how most really bad psychiatric conditions involve religion in some way? One of the aspects of BIPOLAR disorder is hyper-religiosity. Who is to say that all people don't have some aspect of bipolar disorder hence causing their religiosity? And many times the truly delusional psychotic believe that they are in direct contact with god or some other such nonsense. But how is that different from your priests....or you when you pray?
Click to expand...

alright, I asked my cousin, who's a clinical phychologist, and he's never heard of that before... are you sure your friend is in an official cult? or did she just become religious? There's certainly a difference between believing and becoming all spooky. If its a cult, can you link us to the cult website site?
 
Originally posted by: Eli
All you people that talk about religion as if it's the worst thing on the planet baffle me.

I mean, sure.. much of it is nonsense. But what the hell is wrong with believing in something?
Click to expand...

Because those people have morals and they don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top