AMD 6000 series vs Nvidia gtx500 series who will win? Poll included.

[happy medium]

I just looked at the poll results (having voted myself) and I'm surprised that so many people think the 6970 will be faster than the 580. It would mean that AMD's 5970 is slower than the 6970 - the top end gpu chip being faster than the previous gen's dual gpu card. Doesn't seem so likely to me, but who knows I guess (and that's the point of this thread?)

Thats a very good point.

 

[SirPauly]

It's hard to gauge based on what little is to be known as fact instead of raw speculation and maybe some dis-information.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...-570/20/#abschnitt_performancerating_mit_aaaf

Based on the small sampling of subjective, over-all testing at Computerbase, the GTX 580 is 38 percent faster at a popular resolution with a popular IQ setting, 1920 x 1200, with x4 AA, and 20 percent with a GTX 570 over a HD 5870.

One may figure that tessellation and GPU compute may be improved and always good to see more tessellation based on it may help with tessellation bottlenecks in the future. But, I can't see how AMD can't offer more performance based on a new generation, unless they have to cut-down the cores and had some troubles.

 

[Lonyo]

Why do you think they will use the gf116 chip for it with only 256 cores?
Thats a pretty big gap. 384 shader gtx560 to a 256 shader gts550.

Imagine if there were THREE types of GTX560.
One with 384 shaders, one with 384 shaders and a reduced memory bus, and one with 336 shaders.

Wouldn't that be crazy, eh?
Oh wait, that would be exactly the same as the GTX460...

Just because you want to speculate about a card that doesn't exist, and they say why it's stupid that it wouldn't be X or Y or Z, doesn't mean it will exist.
Also currently the x50 model is a GTS not a GTX, so maybe it will be a GTS550.

I don't get why you assume that a future product will follow a different pattern than past products just because you think it will.
GTX260 and GTS250? Different GPU.
GTX460 and GTS450? Different GPU.
GTX560 and GTX550? Same GPU according to happy_medium.


Fudzilla getting happy medium excited about the GTS455 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2116178&highlight= (at least the GTX580 arrived)
BSON getting happy medium all excited about the dual GTX480 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2054190&highlight=
Kitguru and happy medium, the awesome dual GTX470 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2076128&highlight=
Fudzilla again, and the infamous GTX475 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2083019&highlight=
Fudzilla CONFIRMING the dual GTX460 card http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2089768&highlight=
Fudzilla (yet again) and happy medium telling us of the GTX475 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2093139&highlight=

1) This is why we don't think much of Fudzilla
2) Rumours and wild speculation are silly, and half the cards Fudzilla remarks on never seem to appear
3) You kept obsessing over the GTX475, and it never appeared, and now you are telling us that for sure there will be a GTX550 and a 384 shader GTX460 type card (much like the GTX475 was going to be)

 

[happy medium]

Imagine if there were THREE types of GTX560.
One with 384 shaders, one with 384 shaders and a reduced memory bus, and one with 336 shaders.

Wouldn't that be crazy, eh?
Oh wait, that would be exactly the same as the GTX460...

Just because you want to speculate about a card that doesn't exist, and they say why it's stupid that it wouldn't be X or Y or Z, doesn't mean it will exist.
Also currently the x50 model is a GTS not a GTX, so maybe it will be a GTS550.

I don't get why you assume that a future product will follow a different pattern than past products just because you think it will.
GTX260 and GTS250? Different GPU.
GTX460 and GTS450? Different GPU.
GTX560 and GTX550? Same GPU according to happy_medium.

SO you also think they will use a gf116 chip for the gts550?
So they will leave a huge performance gap between the gtx560 and 550?
I just don't see that happening. I don't see a gts550 with a g116 chip competing against a 6850.
That would be stupid.

 

[happy medium]

Imagine if there were THREE types of GTX560.
One with 384 shaders, one with 384 shaders and a reduced memory bus, and one with 336 shaders.

This would be the same thing i was saying but just named differently.
In any event a cut down gtx560 will easily beat a 6850. Thats the point.

 

[Lonyo]

SO you also think they will use a gf116 chip for the gts550?
So they will leave a huge performance gap between the gtx560 and 550?
I just don't see that happening. I don't see a gts550 with a g116 chip competing against a 6850.
That would be stupid.

GF116 doesn't exist right now, so how can you possibly comment on the difference in performance between a possibly cut down GTX560 GPU (assuming more than one card based on that GPU) and a non-existent GF116 GPU?

You already stated in your OP that the GTX550 that you invented must beat the HD6850 on the basis of the performance you attribute to it (greater than the GTX460). It's not even a question, it's you making a statement that people must agree with because it's a statement of fact.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

SO you also think they will use a gf116 chip for the gts550?
So they will leave a huge performance gap between the gtx560 and 550?
I just don't see that happening. I don't see a gts550 with a g116 chip competing against a 6850.
That would be stupid.

Why do you think they will use the gf116 chip for it with only 256 cores?
Thats a pretty big gap. 384 shader gtx560 to a 256 shader gts550.

There is a big gap between the GTS 450 and GTX 460

192 -> 288 (SE), 50% more
192 -> 336, 75% more

256 -> 384, 50% more, doesn't seem that big now, does it? 256 or 288 shaders sound reasonable to me for a GTS 450, and it will probably only have a 128-bit memory bus not a 256-bit one.

I just looked at the poll results (having voted myself) and I'm surprised that so many people think the 6970 will be faster than the 580. It would mean that AMD's 5970 is slower than the 6970 - the top end gpu chip being faster than the previous gen's dual gpu card. Doesn't seem so likely to me, but who knows I guess (and that's the point of this thread?)

Actually the HD 5870 is now as fast as the 4870 X2, sometimes faster sometimes slower, thanks to driver updates.

It's hard to gauge based on what little is to be known as fact instead of raw speculation and maybe some dis-information.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...ating_mit_aaaf

Based on the small sampling of subjective, over-all testing at Computerbase, the GTX 580 is 38 percent faster at a popular resolution with a popular IQ setting, 1920 x 1200, with x4 AA, and 20 percent with a GTX 570 over a HD 5870.

One may figure that tessellation and GPU compute may be improved and always good to see more tessellation based on it may help with tessellation bottlenecks in the future. But, I can't see how AMD can't offer more performance based on a new generation, unless they have to cut-down the cores and had some troubles.

Here's the gap with mostly 2560x1600 resolutions, between the 580 and 480 and th 580 and 5870:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...lU2QXlQVEZoRnJlQ2ZUV3c&hl=en&authkey=CJKDzrcH

Simple math (139.9% divided by 118.0%) gives us the gap between the 5870 and 480, which puts the 480 18.5% faster than the 5870.

 

[sagrada]

http://www.fudzilla.com/games/item/21128-radeon-hd-6970-is-10-20-faster-than-gtx-480

Surprise, surprise, guess who was wrong!

Update:
It appears that our usually well informed source failed us, and forwarded a photoshopped roadmap. So, we plainly got served. We are in the process of gathering more reliable info on Cayman performance and we will write an update as soon as we get something worthwhile. It will clearly end up quite a bit faster and we apologize for the inconvenience.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I checked every single box in the poll - Just because I could. Cookie please.

 

[Aristotelian]

Actually the HD 5870 is now as fast as the 4870 X2, sometimes faster sometimes slower, thanks to driver updates.

I did not know that. Well if the 6970 trades blows with the 580 it should still be marginally slower than the 5970. Though as you say, perhaps both the 580 and the 6970 would pull away over time with driver updates and so on.

It's coming time to treat myself to a new gaming rig, so I'm rather excited about these latest releases!

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Even at launch the two cards performed really close:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/7.html

 

[SirPauly]

Simple math (139.9% divided by 118.0%) gives us the gap between the 5870 and 480, which puts the 480 18.5% faster than the 5870.

That was very nice of you to spend the time creating that for the community! Thanks!

 

[taltamir]

its actually ((139.9%/118.0%)-1)*100% = 18.5%
139.9%/118.0% = 1.185
which you can immediately read 18.5% from, but I like nit picking.

 

[SirPauly]

its actually ((139.9%/118.0%)-1)*100% = 18.5%
139.9%/118.0% = 1.185
which you can immediately read 18.5% from, but I like nit picking.

That was very nice of you to take the time to nit-pick for the community!

 

[Nemesis 1]

I didn't vote on the 560 as by rumor there is a 6930 coming

 

[happy medium]

You already stated in your OP that the GTX550 that you invented must beat the HD6850 on the basis of the performance you attribute to it (greater than the GTX460). It's not even a question, it's you making a statement that people must agree with because it's a statement of fact.

If its names that bother you I'll change them in my orginal post. Iit dose not change that fact that Nvidia has a leg up on the competition with their gtx(gts)560. The gtx(gts)560 will beat the 6870. A fully enabled 384 sp part with higher clocks. This is where releasing a product later will win it for them. I think the whole 5xx series caught AMD off guard.

I don't know what you want to call it, but a cut down gtx(gts)560 se/gts555 will beat up on the 6850 also. To be honest they just need to rename the gtx460 and up the clocks its as simple as that. Call it what you want but the 6850 and 6870 are about to be overtaken.

gtx580 vs 6970
gtx570 vs 6950
gtx565 vs 6930 (who knows the winner of this one or if they will ever release?)
gtx560 vs 6870 (gtx560 being a higher clocked full gf114 part)
gtx560SE (gtx460 rebage) or whatever you wanna call it with 336 sp's and higher clocks vs 6850 .

The 6850 and 6870 don't have a chance unless they have another midrange comming?.

Thats how I see it. How do you see it?

Anything below that tier of performance I realy don't care about. gts 500/ 6670 or whatever.

 

[Gloomy]

I think Nvidia will keep the single GPU crown, but AMD will be closer on their heels than they were last time.

I expect that this time Damage Control on both sides will be out in full-force and we won't have 480-class public opinion disasters on either camp (which is good I suppose). Last gen was really interesting. I don't think many people were expecting Nvidia to stumble, and continue stumbling for so long. I hope this isn't what's happening to the 69xx, though it's really too early to tell. Let's wait for another delay...

I think I just veered off-topic somewhere :hmm:... oh well.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What specs do you need? I'd be willing to bet I get everyone spot on.
I'm not too sure about the dual cards is all, because of the downclocking and power saving stuff.

We have the specs for the gtx 580,570,560>(full gf104 with higher clocks), 550>(this one is a very good guess gtx460 overclocked, one disabled part of a gtx560).
6970,6950,6870,6850

I sir will take that bet.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

its actually ((139.9%/118.0%)-1)*100% = 18.5%
139.9%/118.0% = 1.185
which you can immediately read 18.5% from, but I like nit picking.

Yes.

It would be better to work in the decimal format rather than percentage format if we are making this official.

r = 5870
g1= 480
g2 = 580

g2 = 1.399*r = 1.18*g1
g1 = 1.399/1.18*r
g1 = 1.185*r

From that equation you can put what it means into words: The GTX 480 is equal to the performance of the HD 5870 times a factor of 1.185. Or you convert this to percentage and say the GTX 480 is 118.5% the performance of the HD 5870 (of denotes multiply!). Or simply, the 480 is 18.5% faster than the 5870.

But shortcuts are always fun and that's why I use them!

 

[tincart]

SO you also think they will use a gf116 chip for the gts550?
So they will leave a huge performance gap between the gtx560 and 550?
I just don't see that happening. I don't see a gts550 with a g116 chip competing against a 6850.
That would be stupid.

You seem to be missing something. Just because Lonyo is disputing your positive claims does not mean he has a positive claim of his own to make. Lonyo is professing ignorance about the specifics of these putative cards because there is no information on them yet. This is, for instance, why Lonyo says:

GF116 doesn't exist right now, so how can you possibly comment on the difference in performance between a possibly cut down GTX560 GPU

Let's call this skeptical ignorance. A person is skeptically ignorant when they don't make any positive claims, but only a negative one, to wit, they must wait for more information.

We can also talk about another kind of ignorance. Let's call this positive ignorance. This is when a person makes positive claims about the existence, capacities, features or characteristics of something without any real evidence.

Such people, whoever they are, would be positively ignorant and they might say things like:

Dude the 560 will be out next month, FEB at the latest. The 6930 or gtx565 are made of gtx570's and 6950's that didnt cut the mustard, so they need to stockpile some defective chips to sell them. I think they need 30,000 defective chips to sell before release.

 

[happy medium]

You seem to be missing something. Just because Lonyo is disputing your positive claims does not mean he has positive claim of his own to make. Lonyo is professing ignorance about the specifics of these putative cards because there is no information on them yet. This is, for instance, why Lonyo says:



Let's call this skeptical ignorance. A person is skeptically ignorant when they don't make any positive claims, but only a negative one, to wit, they must wait for more information.

We can also talk about another kind of ignorance. Let's call this positive ignorance. This is when a person makes positive claims about the existence, capacities, features or characteristics of something without any real evidence.

Such people, whoever they are, would be positively ignorant and they might say things like:

Where I come from they call it blind or dont want to see it unless it smacks them in the face.

 

[Will Robinson]

Tin...you own:thumbsup:

 

[happy medium]

I sir will take that bet.

I bet you 1$ in a "I'm sorry" greeting card. PM me your address and I'll do the same.
:thumbsup:

Terms...

Nvidia will beat AMD on 5 tiers of performance from the gtx595 (or whatever they call it) on down to the 6850 vs the gtx/gts or slower version of the gtx560.

Something like this

GTx595 vs 6990
gtx580 vs 6970
gtx570 vs 6950
gtx560 vs 6870
gtx 560 768/SE/550 (or whatever they call it) vs 6850.

Any questions?

 

[tincart]

I bet you 1$ in a "I'm sorry" greeting card. PM me your address and I'll do the same.
:thumbsup:

Terms...

Nvidia will beat AMD on 5 tiers of performance from the gtx595 (or whatever they call it) on down to the 6850 vs the gtx/gts or slower version of the gtx560.

Something like this

GTx595 vs 6990
gtx580 vs 6970
gtx570 vs 6950
gtx560 vs 6870
gtx 560 768/SE/550 (or whatever they call it) vs 6850.

Any questions?

This was not what you bet.

You bet that you would be able to get the specifications of the cards "spot on," not the relative performance.

So, make a list of all the cards that are yet to come out and are going to come out. It should be complete, so if any of the cards you list don't show up, you lose. It should also be the case that if cards come out that you didn't list, you lose, but I think we can be nice and forgo that condition.

Also, list relevant clock speeds, shader counts, memory bus width and amount of memory. If you are wrong on any of those, you lose.

 

[happy medium]

This was not what you bet.

You bet that you would be able to get the specifications of the cards "spot on," not the relative performance.

So, make a list of all the cards that are yet to come out and are going to come out. It should be complete, so if any of the cards you list don't show up, you lose. It should also be the case that if cards come out that you didn't list, you lose, but I think we can be nice and forgo that condition.

Also, list relevant clock speeds, shader counts, memory bus width and amount of memory. If you are wrong on any of those, you lose.

I was not betting you. I quoted Nemesis.



I said i wouldn't know the dual cards its impossible due to downclocking.
I never said I knew clockspeeds either. Thats not important in deciding which card is faster any way. They could all change tomorrow. A good guess would be 775 core and go from there.

I think its enough that I stand by my original post and say Nvidia will win in every segment in the mid and high end. Who cares what the EXACT specs are.
I dont need them.

I think its all about when the cards release and the 6870 and 6850 are doomed with the gtx560 comming later.
The 6970 and 6950 are going in to the just below slot under the gtx570 and 580 and be priced to match performance,lower then the gtx5xx series..
I think the 6990 has the best chance of winning.