Affirmative Action - Get rid of it...work for a living!

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Immigrants who built this country. Are you DUMB!!!! Rockafella and the railroad industry fueled the US. Who layed the tracks for the railroad Slaves!!!!
You might want to pick you your history books, pal. Most railroads were built AFTER the Civil War. In regards to the big transcontinental railroad, the Chinese built the Central Pacific in the west and the Irish built the Union Pacific on the east, completed in 1869 (6 years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation).
 

Spudd

Golden Member
Aug 7, 2001
1,114
0
71
Noob or not, they don't let you graduate from law school without reading comprehension. That is unless...



But wait,

you really don't think I'm cool?

No, you're not cool. I'm cooler than you. Spudd <-- cool guy. :D:beer: If you went to law school, then you know that you are stretching my comment out. I'll be graduating from law school in a while as well, and I've come across a lot of law students who do the same thing you've just done to avoid a point that they don't like or acknowledge. ;)
 

FatJackSprat

Senior member
May 16, 2003
431
0
76
Originally posted by: Spudd
No, you're not cool. I'm cooler than you. Spudd <-- cool guy. If you went to law school, then you know that you are stretching my comment out. I'll be graduating from law school in a while as well, and I've come across a lot of law students who do the same thing you've just done to avoid a point that they don't like or acknowledge. ;)

Well, then you also know that as a practice based entirely on language, words are the only thing we have to go by. Tools of the trade. If someone "missteps" that's you're advantage.

I'm not trying to get personal and feel that it's coming too close to that. Sorry for any comments that may be interpreted as personally offensive.

Thanks for the interesting conversation.

 

SaigonK

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2001
7,482
3
0
www.robertrivas.com
Wow! Did this post encite some discussions!

I will state my points again:

1. AA is an old way of thinking, it should be removed.

2. Anyone who says they are owed because they might possibly know someone who was a slave is full of crap. There were slaves everywhere..not just here.
Asians were boguth and sold, so were Indians, so were a ton of other people, including whites. Dont expect something for what you did not go through.

3. I dont need to read up on something that hasnt ben around for over 200 years...it doesnt affect you in anyway...think about it. If you dont relate to someone at work becuse you are black, try to be more pesonable and friendly...not an intravert.

The things that annoy me most are that those people who complain the most about being "former slaves" are not willing to make better of themsleves.
Black people dont have computers because they cant afford them, not because they are racially disadvantaged. That would also be tons of white people who dont have them because they to are poor. Dont expect me to feel for you. I have guys at work who call me "The mexican trump card", it's a joke...and if it isnt I dont care. I work hard, i get raises and promotions, they do to. The fact of the matter is my race doesnt matter to me why should it matter to someone else?

Your race matters to you because it is an excuse for your races shortcomings in society,. Put down the crack pipe, stop making excuses and better yourself.
This goes for blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, muslims, jews.

Try hard work..its's a novel concept!



 

Darkstar757

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
3,190
6
81
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Darkstar757 That comment did not imply all whites had slaves just the vast majority. Also most white do have more money passed down to them than minorities its a fact. Not my fault you werent one of them. Just stating a fact.
"most whites do have more money passed down to them" ?? :confused: Dude, you live in a fantasy world. In the US, "most whites" live in trailer parks or poor neighborhoods and get nothing. I recognized this problem years ago. 40-50 years ago, some proud and noble black people fought for civil rights and equality and won. The next generation came around and found out what equality really means in America. You get nothing except opportunity. Now get to fscking work, quit crying, make use of that opportunity, and quit demanding handouts, ok? It's getting old.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Im not crying im doing quite well but it because of AA that helped me. I wouldnt have the job I have now if it wasnt for AA.
 

Spudd

Golden Member
Aug 7, 2001
1,114
0
71
Originally posted by: FatJackSprat
Originally posted by: Spudd
No, you're not cool. I'm cooler than you. Spudd <-- cool guy. If you went to law school, then you know that you are stretching my comment out. I'll be graduating from law school in a while as well, and I've come across a lot of law students who do the same thing you've just done to avoid a point that they don't like or acknowledge. ;)

Well, then you also know that as a practice based entirely on language, words are the only thing we have to go by. Tools of the trade. If someone "missteps" that's you're advantage.

I'm not trying to get personal and feel that it's coming too close to that. Sorry for any comments that may be interpreted as personally offensive.

Thanks for the interesting conversation.

Yes, that is true. I wouldn't characterize what I said as a "misstep" but it did leave the door open for you to bring up that point-- and as a true lawyer would, you seized on it. Hehe. I meant no disrespect in my comments either (thus the use of a variety of smileys). :beer:
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Darkstar757 That comment did not imply all whites had slaves just the vast majority. Also most white do have more money passed down to them than minorities its a fact. Not my fault you werent one of them. Just stating a fact.
"most whites do have more money passed down to them" ?? :confused: Dude, you live in a fantasy world. In the US, "most whites" live in trailer parks or poor neighborhoods and get nothing. I recognized this problem years ago. 40-50 years ago, some proud and noble black people fought for civil rights and equality and won. The next generation came around and found out what equality really means in America. You get nothing except opportunity. Now get to fscking work, quit crying, make use of that opportunity, and quit demanding handouts, ok? It's getting old.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Im not crying im doing quite well but it because of AA that helped me. I wouldnt have the job I have now if it wasnt for AA.

rolleye.gif
 

Syringer

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
19,333
2
71
*yawn* blacks were enslaved, yadda yadda.

Can someone explain why HISPANIC people benefit just as greatly from AA as blacks do? While a group that was practically enslaved even after the blacks were freed, that being the Chinese, stand to be at a huge disadvantage from AA?
 

Darkstar757

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
3,190
6
81
Originally posted by: Syringer
*yawn* blacks were enslaved, yadda yadda.

Can someone explain why HISPANIC people benefit just as greatly from AA as blacks do? While a group that was practically enslaved even after the blacks were freed, that being the Chinese, stand to be at a huge disadvantage from AA?


:|
 

gururu

Platinum Member
Jul 16, 2002
2,402
0
0
i'm happy to see this thread persist! lots of thinkers...
SaigonK, I understand your point, but you aren't considering this on the deep level. Lets play a game of monopoly. Except that I start with 2500 EXTRA in my pocket and you don't. I'll own more after the first round. Eventually, you'll become in debt to me and you will have to borrow from me to pay off other loans. Eventually, you will have to sell me all of your property to pay off more debts to me and the government. Ok, at that rate, who is going to win. Well, so long as I keep giving you debts, no one really loses because the game never ends. You just keep getting more screwed with time. What do I say: "Get off your ass and get a job?" Easy to say from my perspective right?
You CANNOT compare ethnic groups to each other in this game of life. African Americans by far are in deeper crap than anyone, only because they've been dealing with this for as long as they've been here. Native Americans and Mexicans (Yes 10%!, NOT 30% which include Cubans, Puerto Ricans, South Americans, Dominicans, etc.) are probably the next on the racist totem pole. But the difference is that their land was taken by americans (California, Texas, Arizona). Settlers claimed the lands and made the natives work for them. from that point on, we've been trying to work our way up.
Asian immigration started later, primarily when labor opportunities opened on the west coast and East coast.
my points:
African americans were HELD down for centuries and only now are the grips loosening
Native Americans were crushed and the grips remain in the form of reservations
West Coast native mexican populations were uprooted, depressed, and forced to start from scratch as a lesser class
Asian immigrants simply started here from scratch, albeit as a lower class.

you can't compare the histories of each group in America. there are different levels of being screwed. Those that have had their freedoms stripped away and oppressed have been and remain in far worse positions than those that came AS a labor class.



 

Darkstar757

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2003
3,190
6
81
Originally posted by: gururu
i'm happy to see this thread persist! lots of thinkers...
SaigonK, I understand your point, but you aren't considering this on the deep level. Lets play a game of monopoly. Except that I start with 2500 EXTRA in my pocket and you don't. I'll own more after the first round. Eventually, you'll become in debt to me and you will have to borrow from me to pay off other loans. Eventually, you will have to sell me all of your property to pay off more debts to me and the government. Ok, at that rate, who is going to win. Well, so long as I keep giving you debts, no one really loses because the game never ends. You just keep getting more screwed with time. What do I say: "Get off your ass and get a job?" Easy to say from my perspective right?
You CANNOT compare ethnic groups to each other in this game of life. African Americans by far are in deeper crap than anyone, only because they've been dealing with this for as long as they've been here. Native Americans and Mexicans (Yes 10%!, NOT 30% which include Cubans, Puerto Ricans, South Americans, Dominicans, etc.) are probably the next on the racist totem pole. But the difference is that their land was taken by americans (California, Texas, Arizona). Settlers claimed the lands and made the natives work for them. from that point on, we've been trying to work our way up.
Asian immigration started later, primarily when labor opportunities opened on the west coast and East coast.
my points:
African americans were HELD down for centuries and only now are the grips loosening
Native Americans were crushed and the grips remain in the form of reservations
West Coast native mexican populations were uprooted, depressed, and forced to start from scratch as a lesser class
Asian immigrants simply started here from scratch, albeit as a lower class.

you can't compare the histories of each group in America. there are different levels of being screwed. Those that have had their freedoms stripped away and oppressed have been and remain in far worse positions than those that came AS a labor class.



This is the Best Comment I heard all day. I truly wish I had your way with words. It would keep me out of alot of trouble.

Cheers TO YOU!
:beer::D:beer:
 

lukatmyshu

Senior member
Aug 22, 2001
483
1
0
Getting into a good college is not a reward for doing well in school. It is a prerequisite. Universities have certain standards because they want to ensure that the students they let in are adequately prepared to handle the rigorous curriculum that they offer. Look at the drop-out rates for African Americans prior to removal of AA at UC Berkeley. It was hovering around 40-50%. Afterwards it dropped to levels comparable to the rest of the university. Those individuals did not have (or were not given) the skills to survive in that competitive atmosphere. It's like saying "we need more black CEOs .. sorry Larry Ellison you're out, but we found a minority who thinks he can do the job." I have no problem with there being a completely equal distribution of race, gender, sexual preference, height among ALL bodies that are supposed to represent the diversity of this country. I have a HUGE problem with policies that mandate this -- these should be naturally occuring phenomenon.

I completely agree that the fact that these minorities (for the record I am a South Asian so I should say 'us' minorities) are under-represented. But when there is a problem with the system you don't tweak the end-result to match what you want to see ... you FIX THE SYSTEM. Education needs to be reformed at a basic level, because I don't think you can ignore someone's education and then at the age of 18 say 'sure .... go to the University of Michigan ...... you'll do fine there.'
AA is a TEMPORARY FIX to the problem .... which means that we should not institute it without having a feasible, concrete solution to this issue. And you're right ... there are way to few black programmers .... there are also way to few female programmers and gay programmers. Why don't we have AA for them? Because of slavery? Come on man. Slavery ended a long time ago. Racism, I grant you, still occurs. But you are entitled to your great-great-grandfathers lost salary as much as I am entitled to Great Britain, as much as the grandchildren of survivors of the Holocaust are entitled to Germany, as much as the Japanese deserve america, and as much as the rest of the world deserves the rest of the world.

In addition, educational disadvantages are much more closely linked with economical disadvantages, compared to racial segregation. I'm all for (temporary) fixes to allow those kids who are forced to attend schools which are utter crap (I agree these are usually in inner cities, and the attendees are usually hispanic or african american) but the idea that only these two races are subject to racism is utter bs. I was called sand (fill in the blank with your favorite african american slur) for years growing up by other kids. I still got into college on my own.

 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Originally posted by: SaigonK
I am so sick of all this affirmative action crap! And before someone throws out the "you dont know what it's like" crap I do know..I am the child of two immigrants myself.
They taught me one of the best lessons of my life..."work hard....dont be bothered by ignorance..dont expect a handout..you live in the greates country in the world."

Why is it that after all this time people still feel they are owed something?
And dont mention the whole "slaves brought here by the man" crap. Its over and done with....and the "I am from another counrty where I am less foprtunate" so you owe me now...please!

Well from that statement you arent Black in the USA. Cause if it was for AA almost all Blacks in the US wouldnt never have a chance at getting out of the low enconomics state we have been in for the last 100 years. By the way untill half of the US senate is either Black or Hispanic etc we will need AA.



Why? Only 10% of the population is black. So why should blacks occupy more then their fair share of the senate? Quit being ridiculous. Affirmative Action IS RACIST. Colleges admit based on grades/testing scores and finally socioeconomic class. NEVER skin color.
 

Hooligan

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
888
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Immigrants who built this country. Are you DUMB!!!! Rockafella and the railroad industry fueled the US. Who layed the tracks for the railroad Slaves!!!!
You might want to pick you your history books, pal. Most railroads were built AFTER the Civil War. In regards to the big transcontinental railroad, the Chinese built the Central Pacific in the west and the Irish built the Union Pacific on the east, completed in 1869 (6 years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation).

hey buddy, chinese immigrants built those railroads. you won't find any pictures of them completing them because they were never allowed at the ceremonies. 12,000 were employed, many died, and they made up a large percentage of the work force. this country was built on immigrant labor. it still is.
 

Hooligan

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
888
0
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Originally posted by: SaigonK
I am so sick of all this affirmative action crap! And before someone throws out the "you dont know what it's like" crap I do know..I am the child of two immigrants myself.
They taught me one of the best lessons of my life..."work hard....dont be bothered by ignorance..dont expect a handout..you live in the greates country in the world."

Why is it that after all this time people still feel they are owed something?
And dont mention the whole "slaves brought here by the man" crap. Its over and done with....and the "I am from another counrty where I am less foprtunate" so you owe me now...please!

Well from that statement you arent Black in the USA. Cause if it was for AA almost all Blacks in the US wouldnt never have a chance at getting out of the low enconomics state we have been in for the last 100 years. By the way untill half of the US senate is either Black or Hispanic etc we will need AA.



Why? Only 10% of the population is black. So why should blacks occupy more then their fair share of the senate? Quit being ridiculous. Affirmative Action IS RACIST. Colleges admit based on grades/testing scores and finally socioeconomic class. NEVER skin color.

yeah, well college admissions rates for athletes and legacies lie in the 50% range, while normal admission rates lie around 14-10%. this country is NOT a meritocracy. skin color still implies a lot. i'll make the argument that skin color is just as important as socioeconomic background. you know allowing people into college on socioeconomic factors is just a nice way of saying of letting people in because of skin color.
 

Originally posted by: gururu
you can't compare the histories of each group in America. there are different levels of being screwed. Those that have had their freedoms stripped away and oppressed have been and remain in far worse positions than those that came AS a labor class.
Jews had no homeland until 1948. Currently, each day as an Israeli Jew is a hard-fought struggle to simply stay alive, much less practice Judaism. It doesn't matter who deserves the land in the Middle East - people are dying over it, and that's not right.

Jews fled to America in the 1930s and 1940s because their brothers and sisters were being suffocated in Nazi gas chambers. My grandmother lost several family members to the death camps. She made a life for herself, albeit humble, but as a group, Jews had absolutely NOTHING when they came here.

Sure, there are different levels of being screwed. But we all got fvcked by the 'man,' no matter if it was whites, Nazis, J.P. Morgan, John Ashcroft, etc. The difference between blacks and Jews is that blacks feel they're entitled to compensation for something that happened about 150 years ago, while Jews simply own up to the fact that they're at a disadvantage, and work to change the odds. I can think of several African-Americans who have made amazing progress and have overcome many of the odds that face them as blacks in America.

Condoleeza Rice is National Security Advisor. Colin Powell is Secretary of Defense. Some black-Americans have risen to the top, and others are stuck at the bottom. Sounds a lot like the situation with white-Americans. Face it: not all blacks can become great people. They have the same chances to do well in school and take the SATs as the rest of us. Apparently, that's not going so well for them, so they are demanding MORE consideration in the admissions process.

I really liked the comment earlier in this thread that equality is simply opportunity. Every blade of grass on the other side looks better when you're oppressed. However, once you realize that being equal means having a chance, like everyone else, it's time to get up and do your part to be successful.

I don't see many proponents of affirmative action doing their part to be successful. I see them as looking for a silver spoon to lead them into higher education. If you got better grades, did more community service, and got better test scores, AA wouldn't be necessary.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Originally posted by: ChineseSkaterNoRice
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Originally posted by: SaigonK
I am so sick of all this affirmative action crap! And before someone throws out the "you dont know what it's like" crap I do know..I am the child of two immigrants myself.
They taught me one of the best lessons of my life..."work hard....dont be bothered by ignorance..dont expect a handout..you live in the greates country in the world."

Why is it that after all this time people still feel they are owed something?
And dont mention the whole "slaves brought here by the man" crap. Its over and done with....and the "I am from another counrty where I am less foprtunate" so you owe me now...please!

Well from that statement you arent Black in the USA. Cause if it was for AA almost all Blacks in the US wouldnt never have a chance at getting out of the low enconomics state we have been in for the last 100 years. By the way untill half of the US senate is either Black or Hispanic etc we will need AA.



Why? Only 10% of the population is black. So why should blacks occupy more then their fair share of the senate? Quit being ridiculous. Affirmative Action IS RACIST. Colleges admit based on grades/testing scores and finally socioeconomic class. NEVER skin color.

yeah, well college admissions rates for athletes and legacies lie in the 50% range, while normal admission rates lie around 14-10%. this country is NOT a meritocracy. skin color still implies a lot. i'll make the argument that skin color is just as important as socioeconomic background. you know allowing people into college on socioeconomic factors is just a nice way of saying of letting people in because of skin color.


No, actually it is different. What it means is that the whites blacks greens purples indigos and violets all get the same opportunity. It means that you are not a rich black person that is admitted to college simply cause your black (Yes it happens) And it also does not mean that your a poor white person raised in the inner city and that your not allowed an opportunity at life because your white.


There is a HUGE difference, open your eyes and see it.
 

Hooligan

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
888
0
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: ChineseSkaterNoRice
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Originally posted by: SaigonK
I am so sick of all this affirmative action crap! And before someone throws out the "you dont know what it's like" crap I do know..I am the child of two immigrants myself.
They taught me one of the best lessons of my life..."work hard....dont be bothered by ignorance..dont expect a handout..you live in the greates country in the world."

Why is it that after all this time people still feel they are owed something?
And dont mention the whole "slaves brought here by the man" crap. Its over and done with....and the "I am from another counrty where I am less foprtunate" so you owe me now...please!

Well from that statement you arent Black in the USA. Cause if it was for AA almost all Blacks in the US wouldnt never have a chance at getting out of the low enconomics state we have been in for the last 100 years. By the way untill half of the US senate is either Black or Hispanic etc we will need AA.



Why? Only 10% of the population is black. So why should blacks occupy more then their fair share of the senate? Quit being ridiculous. Affirmative Action IS RACIST. Colleges admit based on grades/testing scores and finally socioeconomic class. NEVER skin color.

yeah, well college admissions rates for athletes and legacies lie in the 50% range, while normal admission rates lie around 14-10%. this country is NOT a meritocracy. skin color still implies a lot. i'll make the argument that skin color is just as important as socioeconomic background. you know allowing people into college on socioeconomic factors is just a nice way of saying of letting people in because of skin color.


No, actually it is different. What it means is that the whites blacks greens purples indigos and violets all get the same opportunity. It means that you are not a rich black person that is admitted to college simply cause your black (Yes it happens) And it also does not mean that your a poor white person raised in the inner city and that your not allowed an opportunity at life because your white.


There is a HUGE difference, open your eyes and see it.

no, racism affects people who are of all colors and all backgrounds. who says AA should only apply to poor folk? then it's a class issue. i'm not saying it should ONLY be on socioeconomic grounds, but race MUST be applied. a poor white is going to go through a different experiecne than your poor black.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
a poor black and poor white from the same neighborhood will go thru similar experiences. AA should be all about economics, since thats why its there for right? Since the blacks don't have enough chances opportunities cause there poor? Its not that they dont have opportunity cause their black, its cause their poor and raised in bad neighborhoods. So by that everyone who was raised in that neighborhood under those circumstances should have the same benefits from AA.
 

Hooligan

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
888
0
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
a poor black and poor white from the same neighborhood will go thru similar experiences. AA should be all about economics, since thats why its there for right? Since the blacks don't have enough chances opportunities cause there poor? Its not that they dont have opportunity cause their black, its cause their poor and raised in bad neighborhoods. So by that everyone who was raised in that neighborhood under those circumstances should have the same benefits from AA.

no, black didn't have enough chances and opportunities because this country has a historically long laundry list of suppressing and abusing slave and immigrant labor. i'm all for programs that will help equally (responding to your comment about helping people in poor neighborhoods) but racism is still an issue. a black person goes through life knowing that they're black, a white person will go through life not caring about things like race and what it means to be black. the paradigms in which they view the world will be drastically different. AA should be about economics and race.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
So your saying punish whites by taking away legit spots that they have earned in college, because they were born white? Thats racism. Everyones ignorance to this is what astounds me.

I don't deny that racism towards blacks still occuries. However it is much less then it used to be, AND AA is not the way to solve racism. It does not cut back on racism in any way at all. Infact most racism is conducted thru individuals towards other individuals. AA does not even touch on this, so how can it possibly help it.
 

Hooligan

Senior member
Aug 25, 2001
888
0
0
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
So your saying punish whites by taking away legit spots that they have earned in college, because they were born white? Thats racism. Everyones ignorance to this is what astounds me.

I don't deny that racism towards blacks still occuries. However it is much less then it used to be, AND AA is not the way to solve racism. It does not cut back on racism in any way at all. Infact most racism is conducted thru individuals towards other individuals. AA does not even touch on this, so how can it possibly help it.

i was wondering the same thing when i started studying about AA, but this is how it was explained to me. when you're taking spots from people who should be getting in (whatever the skin color) that would imply that there are quotas. agreed? when AA is practiced correctly and the school/university/college is doing a good job of using AA then there shouldn't be this idea that spots are being taken away from other people, in other words, the idea of quotas involved with allowing students into a university. if that is the case and audits find this to be true then the school is to be blamed, not AA.

are you familiar with the idea of structural racism, sexism, disabilitism (?)? it is that racism isn't individualized anymore. city councils, the government, ordinary people pass laws or guidelines which inherently discriminate against a group of people. for example, a certain group of vietnamese fisherman use a certain type of net which helps them fish. the city council moves in and passes a law against the use of this net. this is a form of structural racism.

in other words, people use the power structures that exist in america (judicial, penal, legislative) and pass racist laws with it. this type of racism is becoming more and more prevelant and a lot of people are keeping a heads up on this type of racism.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: Cuda1447
a poor black and poor white from the same neighborhood will go thru similar experiences.

I hope you're kidding.

I agree with ChineseSkaterNoRice - AA should have a lot more to do with economic situations and race should have some impact.
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: gururu
You have obviously been sheltered from racism. Otherwise you might realize that the reason so many ethnic groups have had a difficult time reaching the upper echelons of society is because they have willfully been oppressed. Is this a bad thing? Who is to say. I mean, they (the English) conquered this land fair and square right. Not to mention our own domination of the native american and mexican lands. and of course, we enslaved africans because white was the superior race. over and done with? not by a long shot. that ignorant sentiment is what fuels a new, subversive racism in today's society. these groups continue to be oppressed. just compare the differences in education between whites and blacks.
so why affirmative action? first of all, it is hardly a handout and you're a fool for thinking that it is. the objective of affirmative action is not to make things 'equal'. it is simply to make the composition of the professional class reflective of the social composition that supports it. if the country is 30% black, 10% mexican, then why shouldn't these percentages exist in academia, industry and government?


Because it should all be about your performance, not skin color. Using racism to deter racism is not going to work.