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Why is showing your ID to vote such an issue?

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Brigandier said:
You don't just show up to vote, you have to register to vote first. Your name should already be on a list at your polling place.
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I registered to vote but my name isn't on the list at the polling place I went to. I'm not going out of my way to some place 2 blocks away when I can just walk across the street to the polling place closest to me. Don't tell me what to do!
 
dabuddha said:
Yes I have voted many times and I showed my driver's license every time. Can you answer the question now?
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The same way you voted, there's a record of who voted. Or are you implying someone could go to different polling places and impersonate someone else and vote?

When I voted yesterday, I can only vote at one polling location and I was checked off when I received my ballot and then checked-off when I passed in my ballot. If someone had impersonated me and already voted in my name, it would have been caught when I voted.

Again, I'm waiting for proof of this voter impersonation that everyone is up in arms about for needing a voter id.
 
spidey07 said:
Pick out names from each precinct, go vote in all of them. With no ID this is extremely easy to do. Or just register bogus names and use those to vote, with no ID this is all very easy to do.
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Again, proof of this happening?

Don't you think when the actual people went to vote, this would be discovered and we'd be hearing about it in the news?

How about this, an old folks home receives a number of absentee/mail-in ballots, how will voter id prevent one person from intercepting them, filling them out and then mailing them all back in?
 
Capt Caveman said:
The same way you voted, there's a record of who voted. Or are you implying someone could go to different polling places and impersonate someone else and vote?

When I voted yesterday, I can only vote at one polling location and I was checked off when I received my ballot and then checked-off when I passed in my ballot. If someone had impersonated me and already voted in my name, it would have been caught when I voted.

Again, I'm waiting for proof of this voter impersonation that everyone is up in arms about for needing a voter id.
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But if you refused to show your ID, then they'd have no way of knowing that the first vote was invalid and you're the real you.
 
spidey07 said:
Many states require ID and it works great. Anybody that says it's "disenfranchising" is only because they want people who can't legally vote to do so. No ID = voter fraud.
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Hey spidey!

Jp3aH.gif


😀
 
spidey07 said:
Pick out names from each precinct, go vote in all of them. With no ID this is extremely easy to do. Or just register bogus names and use those to vote, with no ID this is all very easy to do.
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Sounds like something planned by this guy:
DrEvil.jpg

Overly elaborate, easily foiled.
 
dabuddha said:
I'm confused. How would you propose that they determine who you are when you come up to vote if you refuse to show ID?...
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How does each individual person transporting their own ID into the voting place make the process more secure than if the "ID" was already there?

In other words, the information that would be on the ID card can simply be waiting for the voter when they get there. No need to complicate things by requiring physical possession of a little plastic card.

The ID information that isn't already on file can be gathered from multiple existing sources or simply added when someone arrives to vote.

One of the basic functions of pretty much any organization is to keep a current member list. Failure to keep a simple, unified record of US citizens is really where voter ID and registration debate stems from. Why make people register to vote when you can just add 18 years to everyone's birthday and have what you need. Why have silly rules about cards when someone could enter a PIN from anywhere and vote in a similar way to how banks process 100's of thousands of financial transactions every day.
 
I don't see the problem with showing ID. Obviously in cases of the elderly, they should be able to show mail or something else as proof of id.
 
dabuddha said:
But if you refused to show your ID, then they'd have no way of knowing that the first vote was invalid and you're the real you.
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I could provide multiple things to prove who I am if necessary(not required) like birth certificate, utility bills with my name and address on it, etc...

You think we need a TSA for voter impersonation? I'm guessing you're okay with the TSA for flying?
 
Capt Caveman said:
I could provide multiple things to prove who I am if necessary(not required) like birth certificate, utility bills with my name and address on it, etc...

You think we need a TSA for voter impersonation? I'm guessing you're okay with the TSA for flying?
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Indiana requires voter ID and gives free IDs to anyone who can't afford it. This law also withstood review by the USSC. That should be the model law for the nation.
 
Capt Caveman said:
I could provide multiple things to prove who I am if necessary(not required) like birth certificate, utility bills with my name and address on it, etc...

You think we need a TSA for voter impersonation? I'm guessing you're okay with the TSA for flying?
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How would a utility bill prove you are who you are? Or a birth certificate? I have access to my wife's birth certificate.
 
The minimum I need in the very red state of missouri is a current utility bill or bank staement with my name and address on it.
 
Humpy said:
How does each individual person transporting their own ID into the voting place make the process more secure than if the "ID" was already there?

In other words, the information that would be on the ID card can simply be waiting for the voter when they get there. No need to complicate things by requiring physical possession of a little plastic card.

The ID information that isn't already on file can be gathered from multiple existing sources or simply added when someone arrives to vote.

One of the basic functions of pretty much any organization is to keep a current member list. Failure to keep a simple, unified record of US citizens is really where voter ID and registration debate stems from. Why make people register to vote when you can just add 18 years to everyone's birthday and have what you need. Why have silly rules about cards when someone could enter a PIN from anywhere and vote in a similar way to how banks process 100's of thousands of financial transactions every day.
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So if I go in and say I'm Humpy and I'm here to vote, how would they know it's not you? Or are you saying that the polling places would have picture ID information for each person already so they can look at the picture and compare it to the person claiming to be Humpy?
 
dabuddha said:
How would a utility bill prove you are who you are? Or a birth certificate? I have access to my wife's birth certificate.
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Again, please provide this voter impersonation that is going on?

And how does a fake id prove who I am? A birth certificate, utility bill, etc tells me that they own documents that an impersonator is more than likely not going to have.

If my parents don't vote but are registered, what prevents me from requesting absentee ballots, receiving them and voting for them?

Again, do you believe we need a TSA for voter impersonation like we do for flying for a crime that is virtually non-existent?

Why do real cases of voter fraud not include voter impersonation? Possibly b/c the scale would be so small that it would have no effect on an election.

But requiring voter id gives you a false sense of security like the TSA for flying does and will cost millions/billions to implement/administer. I'm guessing you're for bigger government too then.
 
Capt Caveman said:
Again, please provide this voter impersonation that is going on?
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Once again, proof would be self-incrimination for the person who committed that CRIME. That's why the guy in the video I posted didn't claim to be Eric Holder, or accept his ballot when it was offered.
 
Capt Caveman said:
Again, please provide this voter impersonation that is going on?

And how does a fake id prove who I am? A birth certificate, utility bill, etc tells me that they own documents that an impersonator is more than likely not going to have.

If my parents don't vote but are registered, what prevents me from requesting absentee ballots, receiving them and voting for them?

Again, do you believe we need a TSA for voter impersonation like we do for flying for a crime that is virtually non-existent?

Why do real cases of voter fraud not include voter impersonation? Possibly b/c the scale would be so small that it would have no effect on an election.

But requiring voter id gives you a false sense of security like the TSA for flying does and will cost millions/billions to implement/administer. I'm guessing you're for bigger government too then.
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What are you talking about? I'm talking about showing an ID when you vote and I'm providing reasons why you should show an ID when you vote. I've also given examples of how the system can be abused if you don't provide an ID. I'm sure I can easily grab a copy of everyone's water bill in my neighborhood.

Like they say, every vote counts. You might be ok with small levels of fraud here and there. Personally, if the solution to prevent this is so small and simple as to show an ID, then I see no problem

Please try to stay on topic
 
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If people are impersonating others they must be doing a lot of research to know whether they will vote or not. Otherwise we would have heard about it happening a lot since many times the real person would show up and already be checked off the list, which then would be reported to election officials. Or am I missing something here?
 
Capt Caveman said:
Again, proof of this happening?

Don't you think when the actual people went to vote, this would be discovered and we'd be hearing about it in the news?

How about this, an old folks home receives a number of absentee/mail-in ballots, how will voter id prevent one person from intercepting them, filling them out and then mailing them all back in?
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With 50% turnout or less you have a good chance of picking someone who wasns't going to show up to begin with. Then what? You're talking about cases where you're impersonating someone who is planning to show up.


Capt Caveman said:
Again, please provide this voter impersonation that is going on?

And how does a fake id prove who I am? A birth certificate, utility bill, etc tells me that they own documents that an impersonator is more than likely not going to have.

If my parents don't vote but are registered, what prevents me from requesting absentee ballots, receiving them and voting for them?

Again, do you believe we need a TSA for voter impersonation like we do for flying for a crime that is virtually non-existent?

Why do real cases of voter fraud not include voter impersonation? Possibly b/c the scale would be so small that it would have no effect on an election.

But requiring voter id gives you a false sense of security like the TSA for flying does and will cost millions/billions to implement/administer. I'm guessing you're for bigger government too then.
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The point is voter ID provides a SYSTEM for eliminating voter fraud. The effectiveness is another case.

We were once debating releasing nonconforming product from hold at work so someone could physically scrap it, and the issue that came up was that if that was the case, then there's no system in place to contain the noncomforming material between the hold cage and when the person gets ahold of it. You're right, even if it's locked up someone could unlock it and ship it out and break corporate SOPs. We also argued that yeah someone could run into the cleanroom if he wanted to without gowning up. You can do all sorts of things. However, there's a system in place preventing that. You have to gown up according to SOP, and product can't just be released.

The point is that voter ID provides a system. You're showing that people can create fake IDs, well I can create tunneling devices that allow me to pop up where the voting booth is and I can also print fake ballots. Then I can appear magically and deposit a bunch of bogus ballots. What's your point? You can circumvent the system, and there's always a way. People who are opposed to voter ID aren't interested in setting up a system at all to protect voting itself. They just whine about racism, discrimination against the poor, elderly, etc. But if those are the issues about the system, you should be working to help the poor and elderly obtain IDs such that they can vote without issue.

Fact is 95% or more of this society has an ID on them. In the modern world in order to get around, you have an ID. If you don't even have an ID I probably would wonder wtf? Go try to apply to rent a place without an ID. You want to cry discrimination when they don't approve your application? Seriously, get over it. If you don't have an ID today, its a wake up call. It's not even too hard to get an ID.
 
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dabuddha said:
What are you talking about? I'm talking about showing an ID when you vote and I'm providing reasons why you should show an ID when you vote. I've also given examples of how the system can be abused if you don't provide an ID. I'm sure I can easily grab a copy of everyone's water bill in my neighborhood. Please try to stay on topic
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I'm still waiting for proof of this voter impersonation happening. I'm giving you alternate means of providing forms of identification if ever a case of voter impersonation occurred.

Since you're for spending resources on a crime that is non-existent, I'm just asking if you're for the TSA b/c people believe it just provides people with a false sense of security which requiring voter id would also.
 
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