What does a parent "owe" their child?

[Redfraggle]

I think people need to think seriously about their approach to long-term parenting before conceiving children. Sadly, I don't think most people do this. I believe that the two people (assuming traditional conception and parenting) most involved should discuss their childhoods together beforehand. They should discuss what was good, what was bad, how that's affected their own thoughts on parenting. I do believe that you do owe a child a certain degree of care, as you created this person. Thinking that you owe them nothing is a great way to raise misanthropic, resentful children who don't know how to function. We aren't wild dogs, so there is a great deal we need to teach our children. Sure you can take the tough love approach and give them practically nothing, but I don't think that's the best approach to creating a truly successful child.

As children grow, develop, and mature, I think it's the parents' responsibility to know their children. I don't mean in that vague way, or in a best friend way -- but know your child and his/her interests, talents, and shortcomings. Their needs will become more apparent if you are paying attention to their personality.

Outside of personality, there are certain things I feel strongly that parents do owe their children:
1. A healthy variety of foods/activities to maintain health
2. Safety
3. Emotional support, development, and encouragement
4. Access to education as advanced as the child can handle
5. Enough material possessions to instill responsibility, increase success, and meet above needs (no, I do not mean going overboard with expensive purchases)
6. Spiritual education including parents' religion (or lack thereof), but also of others
7. Respect of their individuality/personality -- yes, I believe we have a hand in creating the personalities of our children, and nuturing them
8. Proper socialization
9. Financial responsibility, education on basics (current US economy should make this need obvious)
10. Fostering a sense of discipline, consequences, and rewards within reason

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Food
Clothing
Reasonable Shelter (they dont need a decked out room or anything)
Guidance
Reasonable attempt at education (college, trade school etc)
Love

Anything more than that is you being generous. I personally think you SHOULD try to provide more if they deserve it, but they dont deserve a car or anything else for that matter. And yes I am a parent.

 

[FuryofFive]

im very late in this i know

I do agree with the op pretty much, i will explain

i am 23(24) in a month. i have a younger sister and brother. my father and mother divorced when i was 13. so i was raised primarily with the discipline of my father. as soon as they were divorced his role as discipilinary ended. after that my mother, i think she felt guilty, so she spoils them. I on the other hand, was raised make the best of what you had, dont waste anything.
now onto what i think

Own room = possibly, maybe if room allows it
Car = yes,maybe not something luxurious
Computer = maybe a family computer, but not there own, gotta keep an eye on most kids
College = yes, nowadways you need a college education just to break into most career based job markets
allowance = nope.. no need for that

i think alot of parents feel that they dont have to give there kids anything is because growing up, i saw this as well. i would see kids not caring that they waste the things that there parents paid for. so they growup thinking there kids will do the same.

just my 2 cents

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: her209
Food, clothing, shelter and life training until 18 years old. That's it.

fixed

This. Everything else is given by the grace of their goodwill.

:thumbsup:

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: JMapleton
I do the think parents owe kids the following:

-Their own bedroom (with exceptions unless you live in an extremely expensive city).
-A reliable car at age 16 (assuming the child can be trusted with it)
-A state college education
-In this modern age I think every kid deserves a computer, not for gaming but just enough to do homework.

I think you deserve a kick in the ass.

 

[NaOH]

Typically, the successful kids I see while growing up, already had that sense of financial responsibility instilled upon them while growing up. Whether it be from their parents explaining to them, or experience working and realizing that, Hey, money is hard to come by. Some kids will get this an some won't. Hence it is why I agree with the above poster who says you have to be attentive to your childs development. You can get a car for a kid who realizes that money shouldn't be wasted and one that hasn't realized that but you will get different responses from each. Hell, that responsible kid might tell YOU that you should save the money instead of buying another car and they can share or something. But, I don't believe what most people believe here where you shouldn't get your kid a car to teach them a lesson. If they were responsible in school and NEEDED one to do their extra curricular or even get a job, then I believe you have a responsibility to somehow fulfill that NEED. If they are just fucking around then no. They have to earn that privelege and my respect before I will go out of my way to give them a car for doing nothing productive.

My parents really spoiled me growing up, from the day i was born. When I look back on it, I was one of those kids who realized it around early high school and didn't ask them for anything if it was too expensive or just plain unnecessary. Yeah I enjoyed it, but I saw how hard they worked and didn't think i was entitled to anything. I'm not sure how I developed this sense without working. Although they spoiled me, they always liked to rub it in my face that they are providing for me and money is tight, etc. Maybe that's why.

I fended for my self by rationing my lunch allowance to buy those things like toys, games, misc until I got a part time job at the end of high school. I was sharing my moms car until I asked them to buy me a used civic and I used that to go to work at my first gig. Since then I have taken out loans for school and they gave me money so I didn't have to work during my college years (i am greatful because that would have been really bad and I wouldn't have made much anyways, so i think it is pointless). Although, I did make a little by selling stuff on ebay for my dad. After i did my two internships, I had money saved up to fend for myself until I graduated and bought myself my own car. Now i'm living on my own in a city far away from them and taking care of my own life by myself. When I do come home, I try to give back by fixing things in the house, replacing equipment that is broken etc.

Point is, I don't think they OWED me anything, and I am grateful that they were there to give me those things that made it easier for me to succeed and to enjoy life at the same time. I feel like I OWE them now and I have a responsibility to do what I can to help them now. I would only hope I am able to instill the same kind of mind set to my kids. I'm not saying I'm going to spoil them rotten and that is the way to go, I'm going to worry about how to teach them morals, discipline and how they develop as a person before I jump to the conclusion of saying that I'm never buying them a car and that otta learn them.....

Hell, the people that I see that have problems with their kids are the ones that seem to have this sense that the kid owes everything them right from the start. Like them being born is a curse and they gotta serve their parents and get nothing in return but food and water.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: JMapleton
In my read many posts on these forums I've noticed there is sort of a "your parents don't owe you anything" and a "move out on your 18th birthday" attitude.

The question has come to mind to me, what things to do you think besides emotional needs like love and understanding, do parents have an obligation to give to their children?

While kids are not born with a right to designer clothes or the latest video game system, I do the think parents owe kids the following:

-Their own bedroom (with exceptions unless you live in an extremely expensive city).
-A reliable car at age 16 (assuming the child can be trusted with it)
-A state college education
-In this modern age I think every kid deserves a computer, not for gaming but just enough to do homework.

All of these things I think can be taken away if the child misbehaves or is a troublemaker of some sort.

I think there are many parents out there who act like they can bring kids into this world and then they feel they have no obligation to them except to feed them spam every night and give them used clothing. While I do respect parents who work hard to provide for their kids and are still not able to provide all of the things mentioned, so I try to assess each person based on effort.

What do you think each parent "owes" their kid?

everything except for this i think....

Maybe not at 16, and also depending on location. Some aren't mature enough to handle/maintain a vehicle at 16, but a lot are. If you live in an urban area, a car may never be a necessity. However, in a rural area, a car is a need if you are to gain any type of employment or move out of the house. Not all of us have access to reliable (or any at all) public transportation or nearby jobs/stores.

 

[Redfraggle]

I think one of the keys here is that well-raised children won't feel like they are owed anything by their parents, but the parents will feel they owe these things to their children. In turn, the children that were raised in such a manner will feel they owe loyalty to their parents once they are adults, but the parents won't feel the children owe them anything. This, imo, is unlike filial piety that is prevalent in Asian cultures, because that philosophy doesn't have any duty going in the direction of the child(ren). I believe respect goes both ways, and will then flourish.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: Redfraggle
I think one of the keys here is that well-raised children won't feel like they are owed anything by their parents, but the parents will feel they owe these things to their children. In turn, the children that were raised in such a manner will feel they owe loyalty to their parents once they are adults, but the parents won't feel the children owe them anything. This, imo, is unlike filial piety that is prevalent in Asian cultures, because that philosophy doesn't have any duty going in the direction of the child(ren). I believe respect goes both ways, and will then flourish.

This is the dream. Funny thing is, I'm asian and my parents are like how you describe. Most of my friends who ended up successful (not perfect but, you know) had parents like this.

 

[JTsyo]

Bedroom - shared a room with my brohter until HS. then got one with 3 walls
Car - when i got my job after college
college - private college
computer - had a family computer since Middle school, personal one 2nd year of college
allowance - none, did odd jobs for money. Worked part-time near the end of HS, saved the money for college

Think my parents did a great job and the best they could. The support and love parents give outweighs material things by orders of magnitude. I'll agree with parents should supply their kids with things that they can afford. But there is no reason for them to work a second job so their 16 year old can have a car or computer.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I'm a dad and you certainly don't "owe" your kid a car or a pc. Obviously it would be nice if you can do that, but you don't fail as a parent if you can't.

You also don't owe them a college education, but that's certainly something you should strive to do for the well-being of your kid.

Your primary responsiblity is to make sure your kid can survive outside in the Big Bad World by the time they are an adult. So teaching life skills are critical.

 

[BoomerD]

The OP must be a high school kid who feels like his parents are fucking him over.

Parents don't "owe" their children anything.

They are obligated to provide food and shelter for them until they're 18.

They SHOULD treat them with love and kindness, but often don't.

No one OWES you a car at 16. Get a fucking job and EARN it.

No one OWES you a college education. Get a fucking job and pay for it yourself.

No one owes you a computer. If you REALLY want one, get a fucking job and buy one yourself. (there are usually free options such as library & school for those who can't afford them)

As for the "own bedroom," yeah, that'd be nice, but many people can't afford a house large enough to give all their kids separate bedrooms. Get over it.



I thought kids in my generation were spoiled...kids today have such a tremendous "sense of entitlement" that it's scary...

 

[meltdown75]

a punch in the damn face. that's all they owe you or me or anyone. right cross

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
The OP must be a high school kid who feels like his parents are fucking him over.

No one OWES you a college education. Get a fucking job and pay for it yourself.

I thought kids in my generation were spoiled...kids today have such a tremendous "sense of entitlement" that it's scary...

I'm going to take issue on that one.

College today is MUCH different than college when you were that age.

It costs close to $25,000 a year just to go to the University of IL as an IN STATE resident. Many private schools are approaching 30k+ a year. That's not something you simply "get a fucking job and pay for yourself" without taking on a ton of debt when you get out.

As a parent I don't "owe" my child an education. But if I have the financial means to save away for it, I feel it's my obligation to help them out and so they do not step into the real world with $75,000+ in student loans hanging around their neck.

6 weeks after my daughter was born and she had her SSN issued, I had a college IRA account set up with $100 a month getting sent over there. And with as low as the stock market is right now, I'm probably going to double that amount soon.

She never asked for it.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: BoomerD
The OP must be a high school kid who feels like his parents are fucking him over.

No one OWES you a college education. Get a fucking job and pay for it yourself.

I thought kids in my generation were spoiled...kids today have such a tremendous "sense of entitlement" that it's scary...

I'm going to take issue on that one.

College today is MUCH different than college when you were that age.

It costs close to $25,000 a year just to go to the University of IL as an IN STATE resident. Many private schools are approaching 30k+ a year. That's not something you simply "get a fucking job and pay for yourself" without taking on a ton of debt when you get out.

As a parent I don't "owe" my child an education. But if I have the financial means to save away for it, I feel it's my obligation to help them out and so they do not step into the real world with $75,000+ in student loans hanging around their neck.

6 weeks after my daughter was born and she had her SSN issued, I had a college IRA account set up with $100 a month getting sent over there.

She never asked for it.

you hit on the diffrence. a parent does nto "owe" the child a education. BUT if they can afford it then yes they should help as much as they can. BUT not at the expense of retirement or such.

and yes we have accounts set up for college for both of my kids. i just hop eits enough by the time they are able to go to college. if they don't go to college i have enough for a one hell of a vacation!

 

[vi edit]

I'm just a little annoyed by the "Boomer" (sorry for the pun) age people pissing and moaning about the entitlement of "those damn kids these days!".

Gen X and Gen Y have been shit on something hard. They are looking at one of the worst econmonic environments our country has faced in over half a century. Wages are stagnent, up until the last year housing had far outpaced wage appreciation, college expenses have shot through the roof, inflation costs are incredible, and employers are cutting back on many of the favorous retirement options that the Boomers had available to them.

It's a much harder world to survive without burying yourself kneck deep in debt.

They had parents and grandparents that had a lot of these things reasonably available to them. Not so much for the last generation or two.

It's not a fun "real world" to step into without a very solid head on your shoulders and a little bit of help from your family.

 

[Kadarin]

In my opinion, parents owe their children an upbringing that successfully prepares them for adulthood.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: vi edit

It costs close to $25,000 a year just to go to the University of IL as an IN STATE resident. Many private schools are approaching 30k+ a year. That's not something you simply "get a fucking job and pay for yourself" without taking on a ton of debt when you get out.

Out-of-state tuition is always high. If you're too rich for grants, too stupid/lazy for scholarships, and your parents won't help you, then go to a state school in your state. Or go live in the state where you want to go to school for a year, work, save up money, and THEN go to school. Either way, education is very affordable and while the decision should be made on a case-by-case basis, no parents owes their child money for college.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: vi edit

It costs close to $25,000 a year just to go to the University of IL as an IN STATE resident. Many private schools are approaching 30k+ a year. That's not something you simply "get a fucking job and pay for yourself" without taking on a ton of debt when you get out.

Out-of-state tuition is always high. If you're too rich for grants, too stupid/lazy for scholarships, and your parents won't help you, then go to a state school in your state. Or go live in the state where you want to go to school for a year, work, save up money, and THEN go to school. Either way, education is very affordable and while the decision should be made on a case-by-case basis, no parents owes their child money for college.

Re-read what I said.

It's $25,000 for residents. I can't even fathom what it is for out of state.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Whatever it takes to make them at least as good of a person as the parents are. Otherwise, the parents were retards for having them in the first place. That probably includes education and some outlet for recreation, but who really knows for sure.

 

[Shadow Conception]

I've straight A's and consistently get good grades. However, my parents don't permit me to get a job because they believe it'll have a substantial impact on my grades. I don't really have a method of getting a car before graduating anymore, unless they somehow decide to be ultra-nice and suddenly buy me one.

The way I see it: I ask my parents for stuff to see if they'll get me it. If they do, yay. If they don't, whatever. They don't have an unlimited source of funds, I get that.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: JMapleton
In my read many posts on these forums I've noticed there is sort of a "your parents don't owe you anything" and a "move out on your 18th birthday" attitude.

The question has come to mind to me, what things to do you think besides emotional needs like love and understanding, do parents have an obligation to give to their children?

While kids are not born with a right to designer clothes or the latest video game system, I do the think parents owe kids the following:

-Their own bedroom (with exceptions unless you live in an extremely expensive city).
-A reliable car at age 16 (assuming the child can be trusted with it)
-A state college education
-In this modern age I think every kid deserves a computer, not for gaming but just enough to do homework.

All of these things I think can be taken away if the child misbehaves or is a troublemaker of some sort.

I think there are many parents out there who act like they can bring kids into this world and then they feel they have no obligation to them except to feed them spam every night and give them used clothing. While I do respect parents who work hard to provide for their kids and are still not able to provide all of the things mentioned, so I try to assess each person based on effort.

What do you think each parent "owes" their kid?

everything except for this i think....

I don't believe parents shoudl buy their kids a new/used car when they turn 16/are able to drive. I also don't think they should hand off a car so they can buy a new one at that point also. If the parents have 2 cars and at least 1 car is around enough that the kid can use, then that's what my kid is getting. If the kid is responsible enough and mature enough, he/she will get a car that he/she can use when needed. This doesn't mean a new car enters the house, it means he/she gets privileges, and I believe that is fair. That's how I got to drive. I got to drive the old car around.

Kids at 16 are far more responsible now. I know my mom used to make me go out and buy groceries or get certain things. If I hit up Costco, she'll tell me to get certain things for her and same with other stores. I think of it as contributing to the household. You get the car, but then that means you get to help the whole family out too, not just goof off with your friends.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
The OP must be a high school kid who feels like his parents are fucking him over.

Parents don't "owe" their children anything.

They are obligated to provide food and shelter for them until they're 18.

They SHOULD treat them with love and kindness, but often don't.

No one OWES you a car at 16. Get a fucking job and EARN it.

No one OWES you a college education. Get a fucking job and pay for it yourself.

No one owes you a computer. If you REALLY want one, get a fucking job and buy one yourself. (there are usually free options such as library & school for those who can't afford them)

As for the "own bedroom," yeah, that'd be nice, but many people can't afford a house large enough to give all their kids separate bedrooms. Get over it.



I thought kids in my generation were spoiled...kids today have such a tremendous "sense of entitlement" that it's scary...

Aren't you the guy who didn't even finish college? Come on. College today is ESSENTIAL. In fact a BS degree is worth a HS degree 30 years ago. Engineering? Good God, do you know how hard it is to get a job in my field with a BS? EE friends I know too are all planning to go to get a MS if not PhD. My manager had a talk with me and he was pushing me to go back to school because he knows I'll need it to keep moving.

I paid $20k a year AT LEAST to attend a top notch public university. Private schools like StanFUrd cost $40k at least if not more. You're asking us to GET A JOB? We engineers at Cal suffered through late nights, all nighters, etc. To tell us to work even part time 20 hrs a week means we don't even sleep PERIOD. I have friends (myself included) who have slept over in the computer lab. We work there and play Wii on break, and yeah our projects are long. The people I know who can work through school are NOT engineers. All my friends have had heavy financial support if not parents paying for all of it. With that said, most, if not all of us are paying them back in the future.

All this and we get out making 65k a year. How the hell do we even support ourselves in the Bay Area? Now imagine if we came out with $80k debt? Oh, and please don't start with financial aid. Median income at $100k in my hometown means you're far beyond help of financial aid. No one I know from my HS qualified except thsoe who had parents living overseas so they could claim $0 income.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: vi edit

It costs close to $25,000 a year just to go to the University of IL as an IN STATE resident. Many private schools are approaching 30k+ a year. That's not something you simply "get a fucking job and pay for yourself" without taking on a ton of debt when you get out.

Out-of-state tuition is always high. If you're too rich for grants, too stupid/lazy for scholarships, and your parents won't help you, then go to a state school in your state. Or go live in the state where you want to go to school for a year, work, save up money, and THEN go to school. Either way, education is very affordable and while the decision should be made on a case-by-case basis, no parents owes their child money for college.

let me guess you are one fo those lazy, stupid students eh?

considering he said IN STATE hell it was even in caps.

 

[vi edit]

and yes we have accounts set up for college for both of my kids. i just hop eits enough by the time they are able to go to college. if they don't go to college i have enough for a one hell of a vacation

Assuming the stock market doesn't stink it up like it has last 6 months and actually posts some more historically traditional gains of 7% over the next 15 years, my $100 a month should net us around $32,000 or so for her college fund. Double that if I bump it to $200.

Even at that amount, it's $8,000 a year that she doesn't have to pay. If she gets a little bit in scholarships, then it's even less. The rest can be in student loans + work study (or off campus job that pays more) to help out with other expenses.

She'll have her share of student loans, but it won't be a horrible to manage amount. I just can't hope but think that tuition rates are going to have to stabilize at some point here. Between job losses, lack of available credit, and a whole host of other things they simply can not continue the astronomical asscention they have the last 5-10 years.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Aren't you the guy who didn't even finish college? Come on. College today is ESSENTIAL. In fact a BS degree is worth a HS degree 30 years ago. Engineering? Good God, do you know how hard it is to get a job in my field with a BS? EE friends I know too are all planning to go to get a MS if not PhD. My manager had a talk with me and he was pushing me to go back to school because he knows I'll need it to keep moving.

I paid $20k a year AT LEAST to attend a top notch public university. Private schools like StanFUrd cost $40k at least if not more. You're asking us to GET A JOB? We engineers at Cal suffered through late nights, all nighters, etc. To tell us to work even part time 20 hrs a week means we don't even sleep PERIOD. I have friends (myself included) who have slept over in the computer lab. We work there and play Wii on break, and yeah our projects are long. The people I know who can work through school are NOT engineers. All my friends have had heavy financial support if not parents paying for all of it. With that said, most, if not all of us are paying them back in the future.

All this and we get out making 65k a year. How the hell do we even support ourselves in the Bay Area? Now imagine if we came out with $80k debt? Oh, and please don't start with financial aid. Median income at $100k in my hometown means you're far beyond help of financial aid. No one I know from my HS qualified except thsoe who had parents living overseas so they could claim $0 income.

College? Hell, I didn't finish high school back in the day. I am now a colldge stoodent for the first time in my life...and loving it.
Yes, I KNOW college is expensive, especially the "better" private ones. (Kahleeforneeya state universities are expensive too, just not as expensive)

Your long-winded rant sounds more like whining to me.

You'll note, I never said parents SHOULDN'T help with college...but they don't OWE it to the child. BIG difference.
If a fancy university is too expensive for you...start with community college. Not as prestigious, granted, but WTF? Who ever said you were deserving of the best education available? You want TOP NOTCH education? Earn that...between financial aid, grants, loans, and scholarships, lots of poor kids manage to attend GREAT schools, both private and public.
Having worked all over the bay area, I understand how the median income is...but I don't care, nor do I care how $100K is barely getting by in many parts of the Bay area.
That doesn't make you any more deserving than the kid whose family has a decent job and lives in Bakersfield.
SHOULD your parents help with college if they can? Sure...why not?
Are they OBLIGATED to do so? FUCK NO.

THAT was the point of my rant.

A good education IS expensive...does anyone OWE it to you? Nope.