Wagoner resigns

[boomerang]

Credit where credit is due.

In spite of all my negativity in earlier posts in this thread, I have to say that I was very impressed with Obama's speech just now. He addressed every concern I both spelled out and alluded to earlier.

I know this a very polarizing issue, but I sincerely hope that our domestic auto industry can survive.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Generator
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.

These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette
Cobalt SS

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par but they're still made alot of great cars with great looks/performance/mileage. It's a shame most people couldn't get past their perceptions.

unfortunately it takes more than a few years to get over two decades+ of mediocre to utter crapmobiles.

maybe the big GM/ chrysler should give themselves another name/brand

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Just heard that the government is now going to back the warranties for GM and Chrysler...wonderful. :roll:

 

[paperfist]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

Lending/credit > cars = shame you can't figure that out. Don't act like the two are equal, the auto industry are peons compared to Wall Street.

You mean they didn't have as many lobbiest on the hill as the finical industry? I wonder how much bailout money sent to GM & Chrysler made it back into the pockets of politicians...

Gimmie a break how much money is being lent out vrs how many billions 'borrowed'?

Call me old fashioned but I'll place more of my trust in a industry that produces actual, tangible items then an industry that shuffles around electronic numbers and has a poster child named Bernie Madoff.

Welcome Comrades to the USSA! lol Obama, we don't want to own GM, but we'll back their warranties should they go belly up, we'll fire their CEO and sit on their board.

 

[paperfist]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Credit where credit is due.

In spite of all my negativity in earlier posts in this thread, I have to say that I was very impressed with Obama's speech just now. He addressed every concern I both spelled out and alluded to earlier.

I know this a very polarizing issue, but I sincerely hope that our domestic auto industry can survive.

Seriously? He didn't take any questions, hmm....

He's going to lend them more money for 30/60 days. He's backing a foreign 'merger' with Chrysler. He's going to honor all their warranties if they go bankrupt.

Sorry, call me cynical but his whole speech comes off as hypocritical as it completely applies to the broken government he 'inherited'.

The only positive I took away from his speech was the tax write off you could get on an auto purchase from now till the end of the year. The only downside to is it is they don't have the balls to attach it to American based autos only.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

Lending/credit > cars = shame you can't figure that out. Don't act like the two are equal, the auto industry are peons compared to Wall Street.

You mean they didn't have as many lobbiest on the hill as the finical industry? I wonder how much bailout money sent to GM & Chrysler made it back into the pockets of politicians...

Gimmie a break how much money is being lent out vrs how many billions 'borrowed'?

Call me old fashioned but I'll place more of my trust in a industry that produces actual, tangible items then an industry that shuffles around electronic numbers and has a poster child named Bernie Madoff.

Welcome Comrades to the USSA! lol Obama, we don't want to own GM, but we'll back their warranties should they go belly up, we'll fire their CEO and sit on their board.

I see your point but don't agree. Without lending, even the auto industry is screwed. So naturally lending companies like AIG will get preferential treatment vice auto industry. To give you an idea in dollars, you mentioned Madoff. He defrauded investors for around 64 billion which is the equivalent of 8 times the amount of money that GM got in the first bailout. A lot more is at stake, which is why you hear of these insane bonuses that financial execs get. Last, the auto industry's fate doesn't make or break our economy (although a good hit during recession), while financial does.

 

[Squisher]

I'm sure this will be unpopular here, but the number one thing that Obama could do right now to right GM's ship is profess his un-dieing love for the company and tell the American people that the government won't let it fail.

Every bit of half of lost sales right now are lost because people are scared to buy a car from a company that MIGHT declare bankruptcy.

Either Obama and his auto task-force need to put forth a plan that they see as what it'll take to make it a viable company or they need to let GM file and get the pain out of the way. This allowing of GM to teeter on the edge is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because people don't know what is going to happen to it and this uncertainty is driving it into the ground.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm sure this will be unpopular here, but the number one thing that Obama could do right now to right GM's ship is profess his un-dieing love for the company and tell the American people that the government won't let it fail.

Every bit of half of lost sales right now are lost because people are scared to buy a car from a company that MIGHT declare bankruptcy.

Either Obama and his auto task-force need to put forth a plan that they see as what it'll take to make it a viable company or they need to let GM file and get the pain out of the way. This allowing of GM to teeter on the edge is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because people don't know what is going to happen to it and this uncertainty is driving it into the ground.

i really doubt that half of the lost sales are beccause people are scared of ti going bankrupt.

 

[paperfist]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

Lending/credit > cars = shame you can't figure that out. Don't act like the two are equal, the auto industry are peons compared to Wall Street.

You mean they didn't have as many lobbiest on the hill as the finical industry? I wonder how much bailout money sent to GM & Chrysler made it back into the pockets of politicians...

Gimmie a break how much money is being lent out vrs how many billions 'borrowed'?

Call me old fashioned but I'll place more of my trust in a industry that produces actual, tangible items then an industry that shuffles around electronic numbers and has a poster child named Bernie Madoff.

Welcome Comrades to the USSA! lol Obama, we don't want to own GM, but we'll back their warranties should they go belly up, we'll fire their CEO and sit on their board.

I see your point but don't agree. Without lending, even the auto industry is screwed. So naturally lending companies like AIG will get preferential treatment vice auto industry. To give you an idea in dollars, you mentioned Madoff. He defrauded investors for around 64 billion which is the equivalent of 8 times the amount of money that GM got in the first bailout. A lot more is at stake, which is why you hear of these insane bonuses that financial execs get. Last, the auto industry's fate doesn't make or break our economy (although a good hit during recession), while financial does.

I also understand your point that finical industries are perhaps more important then the auto industry but only in the function that they lend money and without that luxury it's hard if not impossible to grow business. I take that back, they also provide a very crucial function of money management (transactions, investments, etc).

I think that auto companies on their own are very important. While they are not quite the last manufacturing industry the US has they are the biggest and most prominent. The US can't function as pure spending country, there needs to be manufacturing on some level.

And trust me I don't want to bail out any company with tax payer money. It's not the function of government to do so. Since we have though I find it hypocritical in the manner in which a company gets or does not get help.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm sure this will be unpopular here, but the number one thing that Obama could do right now to right GM's ship is profess his un-dieing love for the company and tell the American people that the government won't let it fail.

Every bit of half of lost sales right now are lost because people are scared to buy a car from a company that MIGHT declare bankruptcy.

Either Obama and his auto task-force need to put forth a plan that they see as what it'll take to make it a viable company or they need to let GM file and get the pain out of the way. This allowing of GM to teeter on the edge is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because people don't know what is going to happen to it and this uncertainty is driving it into the ground.

i really doubt that half of the lost sales are beccause people are scared of ti going bankrupt.

That is more true for Chrysler than GM.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette
Cobalt SS

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par but they're still made alot of great cars with great looks/performance/mileage. It's a shame most people couldn't get past their perceptions.

IMO you can add the oft-unknown Saturn Astra to that list. When I finally dumped my VW I was looking for a 3 or 5 door hatchback to replace it. My goal was < $20K, good safety features, 25+ mpg city, good handling, and leather (if possible). Before I started doing research I had never heard of an Astra.

In the end it was the only < $20K car that had leather as an option it blew the competition away in the other categories. It was under $19K out the door, gets ~30 mpg around town, handles better than anything in it's class, and has heated leather seats. The only downsides are a single poorly located cup holder and no AUX input on the factory deck. If you're in the market for a hatchback check out the Astra. I'm told they are making deals with the cloud over Saturn.

 

[sciwizam]

Not an easy day at the office for Gibbs!

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

Give me a break, the way things are going Obama's gonna eclipse Bush's 8 years of deficits in 2 short years.........and I *did* bitch about Bush's/Congress deficit spending the past 8 years.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Just heard that the government is now going to back the warranties for GM and Chrysler...wonderful. :roll:

Government Motors, as drudgereport.com is calling it. People have wondered about this possibility for months. Still, how can the gov really do it? If GM/chrysler just up and died would the gov keep some production lines running for parts until warranties expired?

If this has any practical feasibility to it, it would incline me more toward buying one of their vehicles, so it should increase confidence in consumers.

i really doubt that half of the lost sales are beccause people are scared of ti going bankrupt.

I have no idea what amount it represents. I don't know that anybody has any numbers on that actually. Considering other brands are plummeting, we can fairly safely say most of the low sales are not this issue, but I'm sure they are some minority amount of it.

 

[trenchfoot]

I guess I could describe this situation from a personal historical POV.

Back in the day when I was a wet behind the tea bag over-driven hormone factory, the only cars that put a gleam and a tear or two in my peepers were all American made iron. Cars like the 'Vette, (yeah, I still own one), 'Cuda, Z-28, Boss, RoadRunner, 4-4--2, hell, even the Javelin looked good to me back then, were all I craved for.

To this day I still crave for cars like that, but Detroit, starting from the late 70's onward did things that changed my outlook on the products they were pushing on us. Wether it was an insidious attempt at a grab for more of my $$$ for much less return in value, or Detroit losing sight of what my wants, needs and desires were for American iron, or the fact that I started noticing the foreign imports becoming more appealing due to their better inherent longevity, reliability and resultant resale value and "ego" appeal, I've never really ruminated about.

All I know is at this very moment I know what I want, and Detroit ain't making it. (well, other than the newest 'Vette).

In my view, Detroit still makes unreliable, short-lived products that break down too often, rust too fast and cannot sell used as well as the imports (or their domestically manf'd versions).

Here we have in some cases, different branded cars, made in America by Americans, yet it's the ones with foreign decals and insignias that are grabbing majority market share. So it's not who actually assembles those cars that decides which manufacturer I buy my product from, it's the overall philosophy and smarter decision making being done by the car maker's Management that's doing it.

I see where the Big Three is gaining ground on the competition, and maybe we actually are in a period of favorable transition for them, but when the economy collapsed, it exacerbated the miserable condition the Management of the Big Three put themselves in.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

No it doesn't because he isn't the topic, nor is Bush. I know you BHO fluffers love to divert to Bush or others but you people really need to grow up and actually address the topic.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

Give me a break, the way things are going Obama's gonna eclipse Bush's 8 years of deficits in 2 short years.........and I *did* bitch about Bush's/Congress deficit spending the past 8 years.

What made you think I was talking about you?

 

[LTC8K6]

They bought Wagoner out with a $20M retirement package...

So much for the anguish over pay rates...

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Generator
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.

These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par

Yes it does, they couldn't freaking turn a profit b/c they had too many products which cannibalized their bottom line. FYI none of those cars except the Caddy and Malibu won any awards, and I would hardly call them "exciting".

Better add the Vette and CTS to your list as they have had huge accolades from all the reviews I've read. The G8 and Camaro have too although probably not to the same degree.

 

[LTC8K6]

Just heard that the government is now going to back the warranties for GM and Chrysler...wonderful.

Yeah, stupid and not inspiring any confidence in buying one of these government sponsored cars...

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

No it doesn't because he isn't the topic, nor is Bush. I know you BHO fluffers love to divert to Bush or others but you people really need to grow up and actually address the topic.

Talk to your boys FNE and PJ who began this diversion - I simply pointed out the hypocrisy. This 'lesson' is comical coming from you and your frequent off-topic semantics.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Why afraid your credibility would take another giant hit if you did?

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

News flash there sport, all I said was a bad CEO is gone NOTHING more. What does that have to do with tyranny or freedom.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

No it doesn't because he isn't the topic, nor is Bush. I know you BHO fluffers love to divert to Bush or others but you people really need to grow up and actually address the topic.

Talk to your boys FNE and PJ who began this diversion - I simply pointed out the hypocrisy. This 'lesson' is comical coming from you and your frequent off-topic semantics.

lol, yeah I guess me pointing out you liberals constantly diverting the subject is "off-topic semantics" to morons like you.
Again, what does any of this have to do with Bush? That's right- nothing. What does this have to do with BHO and his minion? EVERYTHING. They forced him out. There is no getting around that fact. Try keeping up.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Squisher
I'm sure this will be unpopular here, but the number one thing that Obama could do right now to right GM's ship is profess his un-dieing love for the company and tell the American people that the government won't let it fail.

Every bit of half of lost sales right now are lost because people are scared to buy a car from a company that MIGHT declare bankruptcy.

Either Obama and his auto task-force need to put forth a plan that they see as what it'll take to make it a viable company or they need to let GM file and get the pain out of the way. This allowing of GM to teeter on the edge is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, because people don't know what is going to happen to it and this uncertainty is driving it into the ground.

i really doubt that half of the lost sales are beccause people are scared of ti going bankrupt.

Why? Of the few people out there that are willing to buy automobiles those that are are going to try to be as wise with their money as possible. One of biggest reasons for buying a new car is the warranty that comes with it.


I said the above statement before they came out and said they would back their warranties.

And btw-what does the government backing a new car warranty mean? If GM folds, does that mean that they'll keep the dealership service departments open for 10 years to service the rust through part of their warranty? I somehow doubt that.