Wagoner resigns

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: boomerang
White House questions viability of GM, Chrysler

Some excerpts.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.

Officials say they are confident GM can put together a plan that will keep production lines moving in the coming years. They planned to send a team to Detroit to help with that restructuring.

The taxpayers are now running GM. All of you that think you know how to run a car company are now in charge. See the Pelosimobile link two posts up

Aides note that Obama inherited the auto mess from his predecessor, President George W. Bush.

Lest we forget.

After sleeping on it, I'm now convinced that Obama and his team of car manufacturer wannabees, sat Wagoner down and told him how they planned to run his car company. Wagoner probably told them to get fucked right after he told them it couldn't be done. My guess would be that the Obama team knew what the outcome would be and were eagerly anticipating it.

President Pelosi probably spent her night wiggling her legs in excitement knowing that starting today, she can guide our country with her vision of what a car should be. She'll be drafting plans as she jets back and forth across the country. I'm sure the Obama team feels they can have uber-green cars spewing lilac vapors out of their tailpipes on the ground by the end of the 3rd quarter. After all, it won't take much more than the snap of their fingers to make it happen.

GM will be in Chapter 7 before the end of the 2nd quarter.

Edit: Some of you may find this interesting reading. Others won't.

http://www.autoextremist.com/current/

I like your assessment, but please don't mention Pelosi's niggling legs again. I only ate breakfast a half hour ago :shocked:

There is no convincing reason to believe that Washington can run a car company better than people who've been trying to do it and have been in the trenches for years. Here's how every meeting will go:

Washington beauocrat: Have we tried this or that?
GM exec: Yes.
WB: What about this?
GM Exec: Yes, we tried that, too.
WB: And this?
GM Exec: Yes, we did that, do you think we're stupid?
WB: I bet you didn't try this, though.
GM Exec: Yes, we did.
WB: We're fvcked then.
GM Exec: That's what I have been trying to tell you all along.
WB: Man, I envy Wagoner, he got out just in time.
GM Exec: Yep, now you are the new fall guy, congratulations.
WB: Sh*t.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

 

[smashp]

Man, People in this thread are losing it. The government isnt taking over the GM and Chrysler. They are setting conditions for them to receive short term operating capital. they were denied more long term Bailout money.

Why

They didnt do a damn thing they outlined the last time they came begging the guberment for cash.

GM CEO Wagoner forced out as part of gov't plan

"GM and Chrysler were required by the Bush administration to get major concessions from debtholders and the United Auto Workers, with a deadline of March 31 for signed contracts. But very little headway was made in the negotiations this weekend as the parties awaited Obama's announcement."

Gm didnt shed enough of their bonds and swap them for stock like they stated they would.


The Banks F'ed up bad, cant lend anymore money, and GM and Chrysler were already borderline, They suffer.


Blame the Unions or Pelosi, or anybody else you want. IT is the Auto makers fault.

Epic Fail by them

 

[Lemon law]

Part of the problem is that everyone knows that we have to have new types of cars powered by either electricity, fuels cells, hybrids or whatever. However no one knows where to go or what to do because neither government or private industry has invested in the R&D to answer these questions.

And because GM and Chrysler have always been a day late and a dollar short on R&D, and have been losing to foreign competition who out innovated them,
we now have this giant crisis as two more too big to fail companies come begging to Washington.

So Uncle Sammy sayest onto the auto companies, yes my children, I will grant thee the money to stay afloat, but in return, you must write up a viable plan.

And while the Waggoner plan may involve some more efficent combination of the same ole same ole, evidently team Obama decided it lacked the innovative and the viable. And firing his ass probably sends the right message to the rest of GM, innovate or die, right now, no one's job is safe.

 

[LTC8K6]

They want Chrysler to merge with FIAT? FIAT was adamant about not wanting any of Chrysler's debt. First they kick out a CEO, now they want to mandate a merger?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090330/D978AIO00.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Neither General Motors nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more federal bailout money, the Obama administration said as it set the stage for a crisis in Detroit that would dramatically reshape the nation's auto industry.

The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.

In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.

Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.
...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
They want Chrysler to merge with FIAT? FIAT was adamant about not wanting any of Chrysler's debt. First they kick out a CEO, now they want to mandate a merger?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090330/D978AIO00.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Neither General Motors nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more federal bailout money, the Obama administration said as it set the stage for a crisis in Detroit that would dramatically reshape the nation's auto industry.

The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.

In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.

Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.
...

Why not - they(meaning BHO and minions) forced some banks to take the bailout money.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

 

[SP33Demon]

GM was fcked the moment they took government money. Now they can't complain if the gov wants them to piss standing on one leg, eat cereal with roaches, or get rid of Wagoner. This is a prime example of why saving a dying company never works. Our car industry would have been better off letting a new, leaner, and innovative company take over the reins but our American pride got in the way. No way in hell the government will save this company, nobody is buying cars now and the few that are won't be buying GM because of its instability.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Fern
Bailouts are getting harder to sell to the American people.

Obama's drive to demonize the AIG bonuses of $165 Mil brought us here.

I believe Obama asked him to step down in hopes that would help sell this bailout package.

I don't know if Wagoner deserves to be fired, but that's besides the point because this is 'politics'.

Fern

damnit fern. i get tired of reading your post. they are usually what i am thinking but put much better then i can.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
They want Chrysler to merge with FIAT? FIAT was adamant about not wanting any of Chrysler's debt. First they kick out a CEO, now they want to mandate a merger?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090330/D978AIO00.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Neither General Motors nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more federal bailout money, the Obama administration said as it set the stage for a crisis in Detroit that would dramatically reshape the nation's auto industry.

The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.

President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.

In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.

Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.
...

Why not - they(meaning BHO and minions) forced some banks to take the bailout money.

For one, FIAT isn't American!

 

[paperfist]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern
Bailouts are getting harder to sell to the American people.

Obama's drive to demonize the AIG bonuses of $165 Mil brought us here.

I believe Obama asked him to step down in hopes that would help sell this bailout package.

I don't know if Wagoner deserves to be fired, but that's besides the point because this is 'politics'.

Fern

I suspect that the decision was driven by Obama's team thinking he's not the right person for some reason - maybe his SUV/truck prioritizatin, maybe his not doing what he was supposed to from the Bush loan - but that it's based on that sort of reason, and the political issue mention is secondary - though it is there.

 

[Lemon law]

I can't agree with Fern here, if the Government is to bail out GM, they owe it to taxpayers to see GM has a management team up to the challenge.

Waggoner should have known he had to hit a home run with the report, and he at best sent a mediocre bunt of a report.

If the top guy does not have a fire in his belly desire for excellence and urgency, how can we expect the rest of the company to get it.

The Waggoner plan just did not get it, and the government was right to sack him. If nothing else, it sends the right symbolic message.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: paperfist

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
One idiot CEO down, how many to go?

Depends, do you like freedom or tyranny?

When is Obama going to step down? What a hypocrite, auto companies have to have a plan to get money yet finical institutions do not. Auto companies have to meet benchmarks, finical institutions do not. Leaders of auto companies must step down, not so with finical institutions. Further more the same can be applied to certain members of our political representatives.

Lending/credit > cars = shame you can't figure that out. Don't act like the two are equal, the auto industry are peons compared to Wall Street.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I can't agree with Fern here, if the Government is to bail out GM, they owe it to taxpayers to see GM has a management team up to the challenge.

Waggoner should have known he had to hit a home run with the report, and he at best sent a mediocre bunt of a report.

If the top guy does not have a fire in his belly desire for excellence and urgency, how can we expect the rest of the company to get it.

The Waggoner plan just did not get it, and the government was right to sack him. If nothing else, it sends the right symbolic message.

Do we know that he lacked the urgency and fire? Perhaps it's difficult to turn a civic into a top fuel dragster in a few months. I don't know whether he tried hard or not. Clearly GM is underwhelming now to miss a deadline required to secure more money, but surely many are to blame for that.

 

[geno]

Has anyone else looked at their stock this morning? Yikes.

 

[Mermaidman]

Why is the stock market tanking this morning because of fears that GM will BK? I thought that you people want GM to BK.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I didn't deflect, I discredited based on past hypocrisy and bias and you can join them if you like.

 

[MagicConch]

i doubt getting rid of wagoner will make gm any stronger. their problems are deep and pervasive from the union around their throat to way overpaid management. as long as they know US won't let them fail things won't get better imo.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Seems to me the Federal Government is losing a lot more money than GM.. maybe we need to demand Obama step down?

Glad someone said it. :thumbsup:

Hack GWB apologists. :thumbsdown:

Hack BHO apologist deflecting to Bush :thumbsdown:

I don't remember PJ saying the same thing when Bush ran up the deficit. Do you?

Doesn't matter if he did or not. This isn't about Bush.

Yes it does matter because the same people making thread after thread bashing Obama for fiscal irresponsibility were not doing the same when Bush was doing it. In a word, hypocrisy.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Generator
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.

These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette
Cobalt SS

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par but they're still made alot of great cars with great looks/performance/mileage. It's a shame most people couldn't get past their perceptions.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Generator
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.

These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par

Who are you trying to kid? I'm a big advocate of the Volt and really like the Solstice and Corvette, but the mess GM is in has 90% to do with their products. Almost as a rule they suck. You can't say that about any other car manufacturer out there (except Chrysler, which is DOA but at least has sexy designs).

Their legacy costs due to union memberships and all that wouldn't be nearly the deal they are now if their cars weren't so bad or so badly focused on today's consumer needs.

Edit: I actually think it's too bad Wagoner resigned - I don't blame him too much for exploiting the SUV craze - make money where you can while the going's good and all that. Too bad he didn't speed up the pace of small car development to prepare for the end times.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Generator
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.

These are all cars(not trucks) that got great praise and got people excited for GM in the last few years:

Solstice/Sky
G8
CTS
Aura
Camaro
Malibu
Corvette

future products:
Volt
Cruze
Spark

Just because you probably don't want anything to do with these cars doesn't mean other people aren't excited or were excited.

This whole financial mess GM is in HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS PRODUCTS.

Sure not all their products are up to par

Yes it does, they couldn't freaking turn a profit b/c they had too many products which cannibalized their bottom line. FYI none of those cars except the Caddy and Malibu won any awards, and I would hardly call them "exciting".