That is the democratic dream is it not to nationalize the car industry to force crappy little cars on the population. One industry down many many to go. Maybe he will go after the evil oil companies next like his hero in Hugo Chavez
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
The UAW wasn't just handed a giant wad of cash. GM was. Nice try. Blaming everything on the unions is just a smokescreen. They may have somewhat of a hand in labor costs, but they make no decisions with regard to what vehicles are developed and eventually produced.
Actually they did by driving labor cost sky high it forced GM to go with larger more profitable vehicles. Thanks to things like the jobs bank and Cadillac type health insurance for all employees past and present GM was forced into making highly profitable vehicles. The smaller cars are pointless for GM they don't make enough on them thanks to the union.
Clearly, the market's demand had nothing to do with that. It's not like other companies have done the same thing. I mean, a well-to-do company like Toyota wouldn't make factories in the US dedicated to making similarly large, high profit vehicles.
Sure demand had something to do with it but they were pushed that way by the union. Toyota is able to make both big and small cars at a nice profit thanks to not having to deal with the UAW.
It doesn't matter if Wagoner is a good CEO or not. GM has an image problem, with Wagoner in charge. Heads have to roll over this debacle, this has been a long and painful death since the 1970s. The Obama government is just delaying the inevitable to save the UAW.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
The jobs bank has been eliminated in the latest round of contracts/negotiations. Health insurance costs are mostly for retirees, which were promised when the company had the chance to fully fund those benefits. Besides, Honda/Toyota are at a competitive advantage due to the Japanese government sholdering the healthcare/retirement costs that our government does not for our workers. GM still made many smaller cars over the years, and the union didn't stop them then. Even if the unions were to mysteriously evaporate, GM would still be in the bind it is now.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
This is far more than him, as things with GM have been going down hill for a very long time.
Although I've said from the beginning that these bailouts were doing nothing but stemming a festering wound, it would have been interesting to wonder what would have happened if, say, $100B was thrown at each of these companies (less for smaller Chrysler) and a little less at banks. The manufacturers could have been close to erasing their debts.
Yeah, if GM couldn't find the right guy I see no reason the gov can.
The repercussions of all this, as reality is starting to sink in, could be significant.
I dont like this at all but I dont know if leaving him in would be good either. Their management is so entrenched and bureaucratic that anything other than a complete reorg is almost a waste. I dont think anyone here, or sitting on capital hill, knows enough of what Wagner has done to make an informed judgment on whether or not he should stay. Anyone who is put into that position is going to be spending 90% of their time playing the political game so they might as well just left him alone. From the outside it looks like a pretty moronic move.
Once again we get to watch the government run another business. This is gonna be fascinating to watch.
I was under the impression that GM only made money from financing (GMAC)... GMAC screwed them over too.
The Ford CEO has only been at the job for less than 2 years.
Ford's current performance has nothing to do with him.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,576
- 126
As part of Chrysler's buyout program, Oscar and Lisa Mendez will each get $75,000 in cash and a $25,000 voucher for a new vehicle as they embark on a new path, pursuing careers in law enforcement.
...
All Chrysler hourly workers under 55 who take the buyout will receive their UAW health insurance for 6 months. Most workers will have the option to buy an additional 6 months' coverage for $8,000, which is deducted from the buyout, or an extra 18 months for $24,000.
If the Mendezes' Chrysler health insurance runs out before either of them finds a new job with coverage, they plan to insure their children through MIChild, a Medicaid program for which parents pay only $10 per month per child.
Those taking the buyout in Michigan may qualify for the state's No Worker Left Behind program, which offers tuition assistance of up to $5,000 per person for two years.
While Chrysler wouldn't say how many hourly workers it would like to accept the buyout offer, getting workers to leave is critical for the company's turnaround efforts.
The union and automaker have already worked together on a tentative new deal to save money.
That included eliminating the controversial jobs bank, through which laid-off workers receive most of their pay. The deal generally brings the company's labor costs close to those of Japanese automakers' plants in the United States
http://www.freep.com/article/2...7/BUSINESS01/903270317
That's some sweet bailout money!
...
All Chrysler hourly workers under 55 who take the buyout will receive their UAW health insurance for 6 months. Most workers will have the option to buy an additional 6 months' coverage for $8,000, which is deducted from the buyout, or an extra 18 months for $24,000.
If the Mendezes' Chrysler health insurance runs out before either of them finds a new job with coverage, they plan to insure their children through MIChild, a Medicaid program for which parents pay only $10 per month per child.
Those taking the buyout in Michigan may qualify for the state's No Worker Left Behind program, which offers tuition assistance of up to $5,000 per person for two years.
While Chrysler wouldn't say how many hourly workers it would like to accept the buyout offer, getting workers to leave is critical for the company's turnaround efforts.
The union and automaker have already worked together on a tentative new deal to save money.
That included eliminating the controversial jobs bank, through which laid-off workers receive most of their pay. The deal generally brings the company's labor costs close to those of Japanese automakers' plants in the United States
http://www.freep.com/article/2...7/BUSINESS01/903270317
That's some sweet bailout money!
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
AreaCode707
Lifer
- Sep 21, 2001
- 18,447
- 133
- 106
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,858
- 31,346
- 146
One point: Honda stopped manufacturing the Accord Hybrid b/c no one wants a freaking V6 hybrid that gets the same gas-mileage of a non-hybrid V4.
seriously....who the hell is in that kind of market anyway? It was a dumb idea at inception and I'm surprised it didn't fail sooner. And I love Honda, but that car didn't fail b/c Americans didn't want hybrids. It failed b/c it didn't understand the hybrid market.
Generator
Senior member
- Mar 4, 2005
- 793
- 0
- 0
All GM had to do was make one damn car that got people excited. Their trucks and SUV are nice. But just one damn car. Regardless GM could bankrupt itself a dozen times over and still have opportunity at rebirth with one car. Sure GM as we know it now would be dead, but if this company wants to restructure I can easily see them being a great smaller company with a product that sells. A not just in China.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,801
- 8,380
- 136
<sarcasm on> But you see, it's the UAW that makes all the decisions on what product lines to offer, and the UAW dictates to Management what the wage scale and benefit packages should amount to. Management is just a rubber stamp for the UAW, and the whole crisis in this lne of manufacturing is exclusively the UAW's fault for having such overpowering bargaining power for its members that Management just agrees to all their demands and lets the UAW run the whole industry.<sarcasm off>
Can you just imagine what those non-union assemby line workers in this line of work would actaully be making if not for the unionized workers setting a benchmark for them to peg their wages on?
Without representation to keep Management honest, Management, being driven by its BoD and investors demanding maximum short term profits would turn that industry into an automotive version of Wally World: take over the market by selling cheap autos/trucks/SUV's at high volumes/low lifespan to undercut the competition badly enough to stop them from producing and marketing a better quality product. Management and investors win, workers and consumers lose.
Back on topic, what you say makes sense, but along with that is the fact that the Big Three had lost major consumer confidence over the years when THEIR MANAGEMENT arrogantly assumed that they had a captive market that they could dictate terms to and did not need to worry about those "cheap foreign imports EVER" and only woke up to their delusion after they lost too much ground to catch up. They forgot that reputations are hard to build, even harder to regain and so easy to lose.
However, IMHO, this is the ideal time for the Big Three to recapture market share, by doing to the foreign auto makers what the off-shore auto makers did to them.
<sarcasm on> Unless, of course, the UAW steps in and directs Management to do otherwise. <sarcasm off>
newnameman
Platinum Member
- Nov 20, 2002
- 2,219
- 0
- 0
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
White House questions viability of GM, Chrysler
Some excerpts.
After sleeping on it, I'm now convinced that Obama and his team of car manufacturer wannabees, sat Wagoner down and told him how they planned to run his car company. Wagoner probably told them to get fucked right after he told them it couldn't be done. My guess would be that the Obama team knew what the outcome would be and were eagerly anticipating it.
President Pelosi probably spent her night wiggling her legs in excitement knowing that starting today, she can guide our country with her vision of what a car should be. She'll be drafting plans as she jets back and forth across the country. I'm sure the Obama team feels they can have uber-green cars spewing lilac vapors out of their tailpipes on the ground by the end of the 3rd quarter. After all, it won't take much more than the snap of their fingers to make it happen.
GM will be in Chapter 7 before the end of the 2nd quarter.
Edit: Some of you may find this interesting reading. Others won't.
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/
Some excerpts.
The taxpayers are now running GM. All of you that think you know how to run a car company are now in charge. See the Pelosimobile link two posts up
Lest we forget.
After sleeping on it, I'm now convinced that Obama and his team of car manufacturer wannabees, sat Wagoner down and told him how they planned to run his car company. Wagoner probably told them to get fucked right after he told them it couldn't be done. My guess would be that the Obama team knew what the outcome would be and were eagerly anticipating it.
President Pelosi probably spent her night wiggling her legs in excitement knowing that starting today, she can guide our country with her vision of what a car should be. She'll be drafting plans as she jets back and forth across the country. I'm sure the Obama team feels they can have uber-green cars spewing lilac vapors out of their tailpipes on the ground by the end of the 3rd quarter. After all, it won't take much more than the snap of their fingers to make it happen.
GM will be in Chapter 7 before the end of the 2nd quarter.
Edit: Some of you may find this interesting reading. Others won't.
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/
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