Discussion Tom Brady should quit

[Muse]

Yeah I don't think Rodgers is going to throw 4 pics and gift 20 points to TB like the short dude did. Brady didn't really do much last week and other than relatively good defense, which was really just catching balls thrown at them like they were on offense, there isn't a lot to like about Tampa's chances if going by that performance. Also, GB isn't going to rely on a backup QB to come in and throw the ball for more than 10 yards on a high school trick play to score a TD.

Jameis Winston won the Heisman playing QB.

Yeah, Brady didn't look great. He missed a lot of throws, and in the Dome. What can you expect in the weather at Lambeau? I'll be surprised if Tom outplays Aaron Sunday. But Tom is Tom, he's amazing at rising to the occasion, so I won't say he can't/won't.

 

[zinfamous]

Jameis Winston won the Heisman playing QB.

Yeah, Brady didn't look great. He missed a lot of throws, and in the Dome. What can you expect in the weather at Lambeau?

I know who Jameis Winston is. That's why I call him Free Crab Legs.

 

[Captante]

Jameis Winston won the Heisman playing QB

And how well did that college success translate to the NFL with a very similar line-up of talent to what Brady has had this season? Tampa was straight-up bad last year beyond a few odd moments and by far the biggest change they made was at QB.

Winston has a ton of physical talent but is like an "economy-version" of Lamar Jackson with his poor judgement IMO. I doubt he wins with the Saints.

 

[manly]

The play that knocked out (almost literally) Mahomes yesterday mystified me. I didn't see a hit to the head. How was he concussed?

I'm no medical expert, but clearly it wasn't the initial hit. Look at the defender cranking his neck on the follow-through. Whether that's a concussion or something else is beyond me.

I have ripped Cousins plenty, and definitely think it was a mistake for the Vikings to sign him for such a huge contract, and even worse to give him an extension. I only made the comment about the WFT because they had such a revolving door at QB this year.

Kirk Cousins bet on himself, and he won big. That doesn't mean that WFT made a mistake by letting him walk. Just because they've had QB issues since Alex Smith suffered a catastrophic injury doesn't mean they made the wrong decision at that time. I glanced through the 2019 NFL Draft, and there were no serviceable QBs except for #1 overall Kyler Murray (and 6th round find Gardner Minshew). So WFT compounded their problem by wasting the #15 pick on Dwayne Haskins.

Cousins is basically the poster child for being an above-average QB in the regular season, and being paid like an elite one.

 

[purbeast0]

Cousins bet on himself for $$$ alone, and I don't blame him at all and I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes. But he will never win anything with that salary since they can't bring in other pieces to help.

And yeah, I have no clue how Mahomes was concussed too. That was very strange. Hope he's okay.

 

[Captante]

Cousins bet on himself for $$$ alone, and I don't blame him at all and I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes. But he will never win anything with that salary since they can't bring in other pieces to help.

And yeah, I have no clue how Mahomes was concussed too. That was very strange. Hope he's okay.

I caught the tail end of an interview with a doc on News radio who had been discussing something called a "Spinal-concussion"... sounds like no fun at all!

Detailed explanation

*(a bit TOO detailed lol! - half of 1st paragraph should do unless studying for a test!)

 

[manly]

Cousins bet on himself for $$$ alone, and I don't blame him at all and I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes. But he will never win anything with that salary since they can't bring in other pieces to help.

And yeah, I have no clue how Mahomes was concussed too. That was very strange. Hope he's okay.

Never win anything is kind of hard to say, as the expectation is that the TV broadcasters will pay up big in the next round of NFL TV rights and the salary cap spikes in 2022+. Even take a guy like Jared Goff, who has underperformed his lucrative extension. But now the bar has been set much higher by Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, so Goff's annual cap hit isn't that terrible if he grades out as an above-average QB (that's currently a big IF).

Another example is Dak Prescott, who more or less agreed with the Cowboys last offseason for $35M annual average. But the team wanted a 5th year of cost certainty, and Prescott wanted to reenter FA as soon as possible (while also getting paid top-3 money). After a season cut short by injury, he's still going to ask for closer to $40M avg; and if JJ doesn't pay up, some other greater fool will. Prescott took a page out of the Kirk Cousins playbook, and whether you like him or not, the Cowboys have fucked up by letting it get this far. Alternately they could just let him walk and "trust the process."

I agree Cousins contract is bad for the Vikings ability to compete, but it's also "market rate" as these things go in the NFL. Like ESPN's Bill Barnwell said, the greatest asset in the NFL is a franchise-level QB playing on a rookie-scale contract.

 

[Captante]

Never win anything is kind of hard to say, as the expectation is that the TV broadcasters will pay up big in the next round of NFL TV rights and the salary cap spikes in 2022+. Even take a guy like Jared Goff, who has underperformed his lucrative extension. But now the bar has been set much higher by Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, so Goff's annual cap hit isn't that terrible if he grades out as an above-average QB (that's currently a big IF).

Another example is Dak Prescott, who more or less agreed with the Cowboys last offseason for $35M annual average. But the team wanted a 5th year of cost certainty, and Prescott wanted to reenter FA as soon as possible (while also getting paid top-3 money). After a season cut short by injury, he's still going to ask for closer to $40M avg; and if JJ doesn't pay up, some other greater fool will. Prescott took a page out of the Kirk Cousins playbook, and whether you like him or not, the Cowboys have fucked up by letting it get this far. Alternately they could just let him walk and "trust the process."

I agree Cousins contract is bad for the Vikings ability to compete, but it's also "market rate" as these things go in the NFL. Like ESPN's Bill Barnwell said, the greatest asset in the NFL is a franchise-level QB playing on a rookie-scale contract.

So who would the Giants be better off with? Cousins or Daniel Jones?

Frankly I'm torn ... neither has a whole lot of upside IMO.

 

[manly]

So who would the Giants be better off with? Cousins or Daniel Jones?

Frankly I'm torn ... neither has a whole lot of upside IMO.

Those are apples and oranges. As for who you're better off with, it really depends on what the outlook is for the team over the next 2 seasons. If you're a true contender, you'd rather have Cousins (let's ignore for a second the salary cap hit). If the outlook is a mediocre team, well just slum it with Jones LOL. The big problem with Daniel Jones is that he was a significant reach at the #6 pick. Literally no other teams had him anywhere near that draft spot.

If you want upside, trade for Deshaun Watson but his contract is 4 years, $160M. He essentially has to be in MVP contention every season to justify that contract.

 

[Muse]

I know who Jameis Winston is. That's why I call him Free Crab Legs.

I'm sure you know him way better than I do. I didn't say it for your benefit but for everyone who didn't realize he was an elite college QB.

Edit: And thought I'd address the thread title. Pretty obvious that Brady leading the Bucs to the championship game translates to him being more than adequate as a starting QB in the NFL at age 43.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Those are apples and oranges. As for who you're better off with, it really depends on what the outlook is for the team over the next 2 seasons. If you're a true contender, you'd rather have Cousins (let's ignore for a second the salary cap hit). If the outlook is a mediocre team, well just slum it with Jones LOL. The big problem with Daniel Jones is that he was a significant reach at the #6 pick. Literally no other teams had him anywhere near that draft spot.

If you want upside, trade for Deshaun Watson but his contract is 4 years, $160M. He essentially has to be in MVP contention every season to justify that contract.

Teams are pretty crazy paying what they do for what they see as 'top talent'. The Texans are in shambles and I can see them keeping Watson on to rebuild the team around him whenever they figure out who's going to be running the office and coaching staff.

I agree Cousins is a better pick, but salary cap is everything. A young QB can be shaped, but if they don't show progress within 1-2 seasons, most teams are ready to move on.

Back to the Brady topic...I haven't watched the TB/NO game yet, but saw in the news it came down to the last minute. I think Brady's struggled a lot just getting in a rhythm with the receivers he's been working with, but they are getting more used to him. I will be surprised if he can go into Green Bay and win against Rodgers. Green Bay is a complete team and has enough weapons that it's going to take some real scheming and luck for them to be defeated. I know Brady can handle the cold, but not sure how the rest of the Bucs will handle the weather if it ices up during the game. I don't know who I want to win that game, but I just want it to be close.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I'm sure you know him way better than I do. I didn't say it for your benefit but for everyone who didn't realize he was an elite college QB.

Fun fact....Jameis Winston was drafted 1st in the 2015 draft to Tampa Bay and Marcus Mariota was drafted 2nd...... In their NFL debut, they matched up against each other and both threw their first respective touchdown passes to a Tennessee Titan!

 

[Captante]

If you want upside, trade for Deshaun Watson but his contract is 4 years, $160M. He essentially has to be in MVP contention every season to justify that contract.

Where do I sign ?!?!?

 

[Muse]

If you want upside, trade for Deshaun Watson but his contract is 4 years, $160M. He essentially has to be in MVP contention every season to justify that contract.

Watson is a monster QB, but as a running QB it's a greater gamble that he'll stay healthy than the "average" QB.

 

[Captante]

Watson is a monster QB, but as a running QB it's a greater gamble that he'll stay healthy than the "average" QB.

Watson can actually play effectively running and if given him protection he can work from the pocket without appearing nearly as skittish as Jackson for example.

Texans as a team have been heading in the wrong direction since they signed Watson ... I would love to see what Judge/Garrett could do with him in NY!

 

[manly]

Watson is a monster QB, but as a running QB it's a greater gamble that he'll stay healthy than the "average" QB.

Watson led the NFL in passing yardage with 4823 right after Bill O'Brien gave away his #1 WR to Arizona. Not that he can't run, but Watson is no Lamar Jackson.

 

[Muse]

Watson can actually play effectively running and if given him protection he can work from the pocket without appearing nearly as skittish as Jackson for example.

Texans as a team have been heading in the wrong direction since they signed Watson ... I would love to see what Judge/Garrett could do with him in NY!

Dang, how long has it been since a NY team was seriously relevant in the NFL? Seems like 2 decades.

 

[MrSquished]

Dang, how long has it been since a NY team was seriously relevant in the NFL? Seems like 2 decades.

Eli took the Giants to the promised land in 2008 and 2012, both against Tom Brady and in 2008 ended the Patriots dream of a perfect record. Giants did it in 2008 as a 9-7 wildcard team in some epic games, a playoff road win against the hated Cowboys, and frigid NFC conference championship in Green Bay where Tom Coughlin's face looked like he had frostbite. If you watch the NFL films doc on the Road to the Superbowl that year, it's epic.

The Jets? We don't speak of them.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Watson led the NFL in passing yardage with 4823 right after Bill O'Brien gave away his #1 WR to Arizona. Not that he can't run, but Watson is no Lamar Jackson.

Crazy. I didn't realize he was that far up the list. I suppose their defense must have been the real problem this year....no doubt, them dealing with Watt sucking up all of their salary cap is part of it.

 

[zinfamous]

Watson led the NFL in passing yardage with 4823 right after Bill O'Brien gave away his #1 WR to Arizona. Not that he can't run, but Watson is no Lamar Jackson.

Yep. He's actually a top tier pocket-passer that happens to have elite escape and run abilities. The guy is just incredibly good--maybe not as accurate running to the side as Rodgers or Mahomes, but he can easily hang with those guys. I wish he could get an organization around him because that guy does too much for teams that aren't put together for winning.

 

[manly]

Yep. He's actually a top tier pocket-passer that happens to have elite escape and run abilities. The guy is just incredibly good--maybe not as accurate running to the side as Rodgers or Mahomes, but he can easily hang with those guys. I wish he could get an organization around him because that guy does too much for teams that aren't put together for winning.

Like Russell Wilson, Watson also has that it factor, or winning gene. Now I'm not predicting future rings because there are 52 other guys on a roster. Other good QBs will make a ton of money over a career, with little return to show for it (see Kirk Cousins or Matt Stafford).

Being forced to trade Watson sets a terrible precedent for the NFL. I have nothing against "player empowerment" per se, and it's actually driven fan interest in the NBA (while hurting competitive balance). The NFL doesn't have a balance problem; but if I understand the economics, the Texans will eat a massive dead cap hit if they trade Watson. The acquiring team is expected to give up huge draft capital, so maybe it'll be worth it for the Texans since the relationship is already broken beyond repair. But whoever acquires Watson will have a manageable annual salary figure (despite the $40M average annual value). At least that's my basic understanding (as it currently pertains to the Eagles and Carson Wentz).

 

[bbhaag]

Eli took the Giants to the promised land in 2008 and 2012, both against Tom Brady and in 2008 ended the Patriots dream of a perfect record. Giants did it in 2008 as a 9-7 wildcard team in some epic games, a playoff road win against the hated Cowboys, and frigid NFC conference championship in Green Bay where Tom Coughlin's face looked like he had frostbite. If you watch the NFL films doc on the Road to the Superbowl that year, it's epic.

The Jets? We don't speak of them.

Indeed, the Giants have been more relevant over the past 20 years than the Bill and Jets combined but nobody ever wants to remember the Coughlin/Manning years.

 

[purbeast0]

As a WFT fan, if I had to choose, knowing what we know now about Cousins, I would 100% take Daniel Jones over Cousins. We've seen Cousins be Cousins for the past 6 years. He is who he is. Daniel Jones at least still has an upside that could be better than eh currently is.

 

[gorcorps]

Everyone should quit when they have hit their prime...

But do they ever? Michael Jordan had his shit with baseball + joining the Wizards.
Manning went from Colts and jumped around a bit as well..

Manning retired after his final super bowl win. He certainly wasn't in his prime, but much closer to the top than a lot of players when they call it quits.

John Elway retired after this 2nd super bowl win, and he was getting up there as well so the timing was right

 

[ondma]

As a WFT fan, if I had to choose, knowing what we know now about Cousins, I would 100% take Daniel Jones over Cousins. We've seen Cousins be Cousins for the past 6 years. He is who he is. Daniel Jones at least still has an upside that could be better than eh currently is.

I agree. I hope the Vikings finally draft a QB instead of paying huge salaries to slightly above average free agents with little upside.