The NRA

[vi edit]

Perhaps Europe should consider it's own suicide rate.

Which as a whole is higher than America's.

Despite most American gun deaths being suicides.

Would you like to back that up? Outside of a .1 difference between the US and Sweden and a few more in Finland, almost everything else "European" above the US are countries that are fallout from the Soviet Union or have had years of conflict/civil war/genocide among them.

Most of western Europe countries (in both geography and policy) are far below the US.

The US is at 12.6 deaths per 100,000.
(here's 2015 stats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

 

[J.Wilkins]

Would you like to back that up? Outside of a .1 difference between the US and Sweden and a few more in Finland, almost everything else "European" above the US are countries that are fallout from the Soviet Union or have had years of conflict/civil war/genocide among them.

Most of western Europe countries (in both geography and policy) are far below the US.

The US is at 12.6 deaths per 100,000.

You won't be hearing from him again in this thread... guys like him are scurry away from fact as fast as they can.

Still, at 6.2 with our weather, we are a resilient fucking kinda people, aren't we... I'd have thought it would be higher.

 

[vi edit]

Small correction. Guns are made for shooting bullets. That is ACTUALLY what they do. Where that bullet goes, what that bullet does is up to the user. Guns can certainly be used very effectively to kill. But that isn't what their purpose is, and it isn't what almost every gun in private ownership has ever been used for. It is such an extreme opinion that guns are made for killing when the percentage of them that have ever killed is a rounding error away from zero. How can you say "killing is what they do" will killing is what they almost never do?

Really? That's your argument? Just because I *could* use a knife for throwing at a bullseye for practice doesn't change the fact that it exists for cutting stuff. I'm sorry but the entire development and escalation of firearms is there as a more effective way of killing shit.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Really? That's your argument? Just because I *could* use a knife for throwing at a bullseye for practice doesn't change the fact that it exists for cutting stuff. I'm sorry but the entire development and escalation of firearms is there as a more effective way of killing shit.

He literally said that killing is what guns do. It is NOT what the majority of guns ever do. I corrected him. What is your problem with this line of reasoning?

You are right, knives are created for cutting. Almost every knife ever created has been used to cut stuff.

 

[Atreus21]

Would you like to back that up? Outside of a .1 difference between the US and Sweden and a few more in Finland, almost everything else "European" above the US are countries that are fallout from the Soviet Union or have had years of conflict/civil war/genocide among them.

Most of western Europe countries (in both geography and policy) are far below the US.

The US is at 12.6 deaths per 100,000.
(here's 2015 stats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Ah correction. I misread it originally.

The US' suicide rate is 12.6 per 100,000. Europe's as a whole is 11.9.

On the other hand:

http://www.euronews.com/2017/05/18/suicide-rate-is-highest-in-europe-un-health-agency-report

EDIT: On the other OTHER hand, that seems to include Russia, which doesn't seem fair.

 

[vi edit]

He literally said that killing is what guns do. It is NOT what the majority of guns ever do. I corrected him. What is your problem with this line of reasoning?

You are right, knives are created for cutting. Almost every knife ever created has been used to cut stuff.

He's arguing intent. You are trying to take the de facto ad absurdum route of mental gymnastics.

 

[vi edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Ah correction. I misread it originally.

The US' suicide rate is 12.6 per 100,000. Europe's as a whole is 11.9.

Yeah and a *LOT* of that is eastern Europe. I'm not sure it's fair to compare against a very unstable region with a bunch of people in very shitty situations.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

He's arguing intent. You are trying to take the de facto ad absurdum route of mental gymnastics.

No he said that's what they do. For the most part, it isn't what they do. Most people who buy and own guns, do not intend to kill people with them. My evidence: most people who buy and own guns never kill people.

 

[J.Wilkins]

He's arguing intent. You are trying to take the de facto ad absurdum route of mental gymnastics.

Isn't it fascinating that those who cannot understand the simplest of things are the ones that are arguing for unrestricted gun ownership.

It like being a fucking moron is absolutely needed to hold that opinion which probably is not far from the truth.

The inability to analyse the risk/reward is a problem for some people... Those people are usually called morons.

 

[vi edit]

No he said that's what they do. For the most part, it isn't what they do. Most people who buy and own guns, do not intend to kill people with them. My evidence: most people who buy and own guns never kill people.

And right before that he said "They are made for killing".

Applying same logic...

Fire extinguishers are made for putting out fires. It's what they do.

Would you take the time to argue that?

 

[J.Wilkins]

No he said that's what they do. For the most part, it isn't what they do. Most people who buy and own guns, do not intend to kill people with them. My evidence: most people who buy and own guns never kill people.

You are such an incredible idiot... You could argue the same point about nukes, they are safer than firearms since they have killed less people so why not let everyone have one of those?

Why do you own guns? Target practice? An air rifle will do that just fine so no problem relinquishing your firearms in exchange for an air rifle?

 

[Atreus21]

Yeah and a *LOT* of that is eastern Europe. I'm not sure it's fair to compare against a very unstable region with a bunch of people in very shitty situations.

That may be true, but the video did start with "Dear fellow Europeans".

 

[J.Wilkins]

That may be true, but the video did start with "Dear fellow Europeans".

Yeah, see Eastern Europe is counted and not counted depending on what you want to accomplish.

Remember "new europe"?

 

[vi edit]

That may be true, but the video did start with "Dear fellow Europeans".

Maybe they only care about EU members

 

[SlowSpyder]

Joined the NRA last week. Glad to join an organization that'll help protect my rights, even if I don't always agree with the NRA.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Joined the NRA last week. Glad to join an organization that'll help protect my rights, even if I don't always agree with the NRA.

Well, if we're just trolling for replies then I fucked your mother up the arse last night.

 

[Sunburn74]

Joined the NRA last week. Glad to join an organization that'll help protect my rights, even if I don't always agree with the NRA.

Not all rights are true human rights.
For much of history, certain people fought viciously and brutally for the right to own slaves. Or to beat their wives and children. Or to steal or unfairly tax. Or to do all sorts of horrible things they felt were natural, god given rights.
I would say the right to own certain weapons and blow your neighbors brains out is probably one of the more questionable human rights proposed.

 

[momeNt]

Would you like to back that up? Outside of a .1 difference between the US and Sweden and a few more in Finland, almost everything else "European" above the US are countries that are fallout from the Soviet Union or have had years of conflict/civil war/genocide among them.

Most of western Europe countries (in both geography and policy) are far below the US.

The US is at 12.6 deaths per 100,000.
(here's 2015 stats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

All of those countries have a much higher non-firearm suicide rate. Which means two things.

A - they have a much higher non-firearm suicide rate (obviously)
B - They have a DRASTICALLY higher suicide attempt rate. - which means they are generally more suicidal.

Technically speaking, they have a suicide problem bigger than the USA. The USA just has a gun problem with a relatively minor suicide problem in comparison to the EU.

 

[Atreus21]

Yeah and a *LOT* of that is eastern Europe. I'm not sure it's fair to compare against a very unstable region with a bunch of people in very shitty situations.

Of further interest is comparing suicide rates by country with gun ownership by country, if we can accept Wikipedia's numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The United States, with 112 firearms per 100 people, has a 12.6 suicides per 100,000
Denmark, with less than 10% of the US' gun ownership per capita, has 72% of the United States' suicide rate.
Finland has 30% of the US' gun ownership per capita and 113% of the US' suicide rate.
France has 28% of the US' gun ownership per capita and 98% of the US' suicide rate.
Germany: 27% of the guns, 72% of the suicides
Italy: 11% of the guns, 43% of the suicides.
Norway: 28% of the guns, 74% of the suicides
UK: 6% of the guns, 59% of the suicides.

 

[vi edit]

All of those countries have a much higher non-firearm suicide rate. Which means two things.

A - they have a much higher non-firearm suicide rate (obviously)
B - They have a DRASTICALLY higher suicide attempt rate. - which means they are generally more suicidal.

Technically speaking, they have a suicide problem bigger than the USA. The USA just has a gun problem with a relatively minor suicide problem in comparison to the EU.

We also have 50,000 overdose deaths a year. Those aren't ruled suicides (most of the time). But it's still a very serious sign of distress in a country.

 

[NetWareHead]

Really? That's your argument? Just because I *could* use a knife for throwing at a bullseye for practice doesn't change the fact that it exists for cutting stuff. I'm sorry but the entire development and escalation of firearms is there as a more effective way of killing shit.

Of course guns can be used for killing people. So f-ing what? I could carry a hammer around for self defense but that would take very long to stop an intruder/attacker etc... I dont necessarily have to kill somebody but Im going to be shooting for center mass to give me the best chance at striking a critical organ.

I want an efficient tool that will do the job at neutralizing a threat and do it FAST. I want to defend myself with the best possible tool I can find. The gun is almost perfect tool for accomplishing that.

 

[momeNt]

We also have 50,000 overdose deaths a year. Those aren't ruled suicides (most of the time). But it's still a very serious sign of distress in a country.

Opiate overdoses do not count the same as cranial lead overdoses. 20,000 > 50,000 in case you did not know.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Well, if we're just trolling for replies then I fucked your mother up the arse last night.

I'm in a thread about the NRA posting how I'm a member of the NRA as of last week. How is that trolling? Seriously, wtf?

 

[vi edit]

Of further interest is comparing suicide rates by country with gun ownership by country, if we can accept Wikipedia's numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The United States, with 112 firearms per 100 people, has a 12.6 suicides per 100,000
Denmark, with less than 10% of the US' gun ownership per capita, has 72% of the United States' suicide rate.
Finland has 30% of the US' gun ownership per capita and 113% of the US' suicide rate.
France has 28% of the US' gun ownership per capita and 98% of the US' suicide rate.
Germany: 27% of the guns, 72% of the suicides
Italy: 11% of the guns, 43% of the suicides.
Norway: 28% of the guns, 74% of the suicides
UK: 6% of the guns, 59% of the suicides.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue at this point. Do you?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

And right before that he said "They are made for killing".

Applying same logic...

Fire extinguishers are made for putting out fires. It's what they do.

Would you take the time to argue that?

Most of the time fire extinguishers are used, it is to put out fires. I agree with you, it is what they do the most. Well, besides sitting around waiting for fires.

Can you say that most of the time guns are used, it is to kill? Then how can you say that is what they do, when it literally isn't what they do? It isn't why people buy them. It isn't what they are used for.

I agree with your fire extinguisher logic. It is applied correctly. Why does that logic disappear for you when discussing firearms?