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The NRA

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NetWareHead said:
I dont really care if people around me open carry. Not threatened. I was at 5 guys recently to grab a burger and 2 different people in the establishment were open carrying. Sitting down peacefully eating and not bothering anybody. Family with some kids was sitting at the table near one carrying guy and nobody was bothered.

I live in NH and you dont need a license to open carry, just a state ID. Hell, we used to need a license to conceal carry. Just wait 3 days after you submit the application while the police dept does a background check and then you pay your $10 and you are all set. But now we dont even need a license anymore to conceal carry. The state did away with that requirement. We are not in some backwoods part of the state. We are about 40 minutes from Boston in Southern NH.

I'm a firm believer in the saying: an armed society is a polite society.
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You have just convinced me that I never want to visit NH.
 
SNC said:
I wonder if you would feel the same way if there had been a fuckwad running from the police and was intent on killing as man of those 4 year olds and their patients as he could before being caught, but was taken out by him. Would you hate him then? Or would you be more upset if he said afterwards that he normally carries but because a parent was buthurt at teh last party he took his daughter to he left his firearm in the car while you hold the body of your dead kid? Just imagine if a retired sniper was at the festival in Vegas with his armalite AR-50 in the back of his truck. I know the answer is that Paddock should have not been able to amass that amount of firepower, and on that point I struggle with but if pressed I agree, but how? A national registry, licensing, the Canadian model? How do you limit one amendment or limit ones ability to exercise it without compromising the strength of all the others. Some argue that the second was penned when there were only muskets and did not account for the advancement of tech. Could not the same be said for the 1st? Words delivered to kids about hate and racism shape what kids become. I dont have the answer, but I do know that I have a fairly large collection of handguns from tiny over-under derringers to massive .50cal wheel guns and everything in between, I've never shot anyone and neither have my kids.
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Or what if someone robbed the store, with no intention of shooting anyone until rambo pulled his gun, got into a shootout with the robber and five kids were killed in the crossfire?

Regardless that is a pretty long, BS, what-if case. 99.9999% of the time when you go to the mall nothing will happen. On the extremely remote chance that something does, I don't really believe that the "good guy with gun" fantasy would play out the way everyone thinks it will, except maybe in a true mass shooting. Also why would a guy running from the cops, run into a store with only one way out, then shoot everyone? Seems like a good way of getting caught. Please find me all the stories of five year-old birthday parties being shot up in the suburbs (where open carry people actually live).

If some dude had grabbed a sniper rifle in Vegas, first he probably would've been shot by some other "good guy with a gun." Second, what happens if he missed and now he is shooting into innocent people's rooms? Or do you think it would've been okay for all the "good guys with guns" to start shooting at a hotel with 3,300 rooms hoping to get the one guy?

Sorry, I forgot, a good guy with a gun will never miss and no one will ever mistake him as a bad guy with a gun.
 
NetWareHead said:
or i can just carry it anywhere I please. Not like that is illegal.
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Belligerence is not a good quality in our spices as you just proved. One day I suspect we'll get away from the wild wild west mentality and the NRA as it has become will be just children's nightmares and an old man's sorrow.
 
Muse said:
I've never been robbed in MA. I'll take my chances there instead of rubbing shoulders with people carrying firearms in public, thank you.
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There are quite a few towns in MA that allow concealed carry but less open carry. In MA its decided at the towj level by the local police chief and town hall. Their are some vehemently anti-gun cities and some pro. The only differences is that NH decided at a state level to allow universal open and concealed carry and become a "shall-issue" state. While I wish you no harm in MA or anywhere else, its not as uncommon as you think to rub shoulders with armed citizens in MA.
 
Thebobo said:
Belligerence is not a good quality in our spices as you just proved. One day I suspect we'll get away from the wild wild west mentality and the NRA as it has become will be just children's nightmares and an old man's sorrow.
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Who is being belligerent? Are you talking about just my presence with a gun on my hip? Thats not belligerence.

The gun never gets unholstered, it is never brandished etc... unless I absolutely need to use it.
 
Zorba said:
Or what if someone robbed the store, with no intention of shooting anyone until rambo pulled his gun, got into a shootout with the robber and five kids were killed in the crossfire?

Regardless that is a pretty long, BS, what-if case. 99.9999% of the time when you go to the mall nothing will happen. On the extremely remote chance that something does, I don't really believe that the "good guy with gun" fantasy would play out the way everyone thinks it will, except maybe in a true mass shooting. Also why would a guy running from the cops, run into a store with only one way out, then shoot everyone? Seems like a good way of getting caught. Please find me all the stories of five year-old birthday parties being shot up in the suburbs (where open carry people actually live).

If some dude had grabbed a sniper rifle in Vegas, first he probably would've been shot by some other "good guy with a gun." Second, what happens if he missed and now he is shooting into innocent people's rooms? Or do you think it would've been okay for all the "good guys with guns" to start shooting at a hotel with 3,300 rooms hoping to get the one guy?

Sorry, I forgot, a good guy with a gun will never miss and no one will ever mistake him as a bad guy with a gun.
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I get your point but if you're gonna admonish someone for using what you think is a what-fi case you shouldn't use one of your own. You want an example of someone going into a store with the intention of causing harm with a gun that was stopped by an armed person? Just one or the several hundred that happen every year? http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-man-71-shoots-alleged-robbers-internet-cafe/story?id=16800859 heres a really quick one. You dont like my senerio, but if I would have said a month ago that a sniper might be able to take out a wack job shooting people at a concert from teh 32nd floor of a hotel, would you have believed it? Today is not yesterday and there are real bad people out there, you cannot assume that because it hasent happened, it will not.

As for the assumption that the trained sniper might miss, I would rather hear that one innocent person was killed by him missing on the first shot then the thousands that he did harm to that day.
That said, I do not carry in public, I keep my firearms at home, loaded and ready. I know I am not a good enough shot or willing to take another life in the defence of things that are not mine.
 
NetWareHead said:
Who is being belligerent? Are you talking about just my presence with a gun on my hip? Thats not belligerence.

The gun never gets unholstered, it is never brandished etc... unless I absolutely need to use it.
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And what are the odds you would need your gun? According to the NRA the odds of needing a gun to defend yourself are infinitesimal. You probably have a greater chance of being hit with an airplane walking out of your house?

nranoirdgu.jpg


https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/10/20/noir-season-4-episode-4/
 
SNC said:
I know I am not a good enough shot or willing to take another life in the defence of things that are not mine.
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I also feel the same way. I dont have the overwhelming urge to be a hero and start to return fire. If I see someone on the street getting mugged or happen to be present in a store when a robbery is going on, I'm not going to pull our my weapon and start blasting. My first urge is to lay low. The weapon is for me and my own self defense.
 
Thebobo said:
And what are the odds you would need your gun? According to the NRA the odds of needing a gun to defend yourself are infinitesimal. You probably have a greater chance of being hit with a airplane walking out of your house?
https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/10/20/noir-season-4-episode-4/
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Its up to me what odds I wish to play and what kinds of pre-cautions I wish to exercise. My own life is in my own hands and I know Im not going to drop the ball. I see nothing wrong with carrying an additional level of insurance
 
NetWareHead said:
With who? The men open carrying in 5 guys? I had no need to discuss anything with them. We ate and left.
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Oh so your interaction with them was the same as pretty much everyone else's interaction with each other who don't have guns. Doesn't sound any more polite to me.
 
I'd like to add that I was robbed at knifepoint by multiple attackers once so my urge to defend myself is rooted in real life example. I'll admit I was scared shitless and it impressed upon me greatly. I could have died.

The police were no where to be found. The cops cant always protect you and when you need them right now, they are minutes/hours away. Not to knock them but it is impossible for them to protect citizens and prevent crime everywhere at every time. Thats why the ultimate responsibility for one's own life lies within oneself. If you want to depend on the govt and all of its appurtenances to protect you, you have to accept the govt cant always do what you hope for. Its not perfect. The last line of defense is you. My loved ones last line of defense is me although my wife also has a concealed carry.
 
ivwshane said:
Oh so your interaction with them was the same as pretty much everyone else's interaction with each other who don't have guns. Doesn't sound any more polite to me.
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I didnt need to speak with them. What is your point?

My point was to show that open carriers can exist peacefully in society. And to counter the viewpoints expressed in this thread that expressed irrational fear at the thought of rubbing shoulders with armed members of society. We all entered the fast food joint, dined and then left without incident even though 2 different men happened to be open carrying. And perhaps others were conceal carrying.
 
NetWareHead said:
I didnt need to speak with them. What is your point?

My point was to show that open carriers can exist peacefully in society. And to counter the viewpoints expressed in this thread that expressed irrational fear at the thought of rubbing shoulders with armed members of society. We all entered the fast food joint, dined and then left without incident even though 2 different men happened to be open carrying. And perhaps others were conceal carrying.
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I was countering your stupid proverb of an armed society is a polite society by showing you that your interaction was no different than millions of other interactions. That is, the gun being present doesn't change things.

I also suspect that had you been armed when you were robbed you probably would have been killed trying to fumble for your gun.
Hopefully you live alone as its been proven that a family member has a higher chance of being shot by a gun when one is present in the home.

Your security is purely mental.
 
ivwshane said:
I was countering your stupid proverb of an armed society is a polite society by showing you that your interaction was no different than millions of other interactions. That is, the gun being present doesn't change things.

I also suspect that had you been armed when you were robbed you probably would have been killed trying to fumble for your gun.
Hopefully you live alone as its been proven that a family member has a higher chance of being shot by a gun when one is present in the home.

Your security is purely mental.
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That proverb applies to many more situations that just the one you chose to narrowly focus on at that specific point in time.

I try to think like a criminal would. If I were looking for houses to rob, Id pick the easier targets. Perhaps avoiding the house with an NRA sticker. Avoid the house where I happened to see the owner removing a gun case from his trunk. Or avoiding cities/states that are shall issue where the target may in fact be packing and could return fire. I think it was certainly a factor when I was mugged. They chose to exploit factors that maximized their success: 3 of them against one of me. Mugged me on a subway platform where the getaway was certain and when no police were patrolling. Criminals also do a risk-cost analysis and in IMO, the more lawfully abiding members of society that are armed and take their own defense into their own hands, the less crime happens. If a criminal should die at the hands of a lawfully abiding citizen exercising his right to self defense, other criminals will take note. When examples are made and consequences discourage criminal behavior, criminals react accordingly. That what i mean by an armed society is a polite society.

You also have a higher chance of dying in an electrical fire if you home happens to have electrical service. You have a higher chance of dying being hit by a car should you decide to one day cross the street. And so on and so forth. Where are you going to draw the line? These are risks we take where the ends justify the means and we accept those risks in exchange for a greater good. We are prepared to keep guns in our home and practice proper safety procedures. And should we have children, we wont get rid of guns either. They will be taught the proper and safe ways.
 
SNC said:
I don't think there is an ounce of difference between a gun nutter that is amassing an arsenal of weapons and a religious wacko be they Muslims, Catholics, Born Agains or LDSs.
It is all a choice, not something we are born with. We are taught it and the world we live in changes it either for the good or bad. What is it that makes you think they are different?
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I'm not really saying it's different. Just using the topic to further point out how hypocrisy rules again.

Gun violence - totes coo
Muslims - ban 'em
 
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Perhaps Europe should consider it's own suicide rate.

Which as a whole is higher than America's.

Despite most American gun deaths being suicides.
 
cytg111 said:
2. Guns are made for killing, killing is what they do.
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Small correction. Guns are made for shooting bullets. That is ACTUALLY what they do. Where that bullet goes, what that bullet does is up to the user. Guns can certainly be used very effectively to kill. But that isn't what their purpose is, and it isn't what almost every gun in private ownership has ever been used for. It is such an extreme opinion that guns are made for killing when the percentage of them that have ever killed is a rounding error away from zero. How can you say "killing is what they do" will killing is what they almost never do?
 
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