Super Tuesday Results

[soulcougher73]

While this is how it would ideally work, in practice it leaves the door open for republicans to more easily chip away at it because there is a private option. I could see it going the exact same way as education is going, where republicans start to pass legislation permitting vouchers for private insurance. This eats away at the funding for medicare for all. Study after study has shown that public schools in America are superior to charter schools in general, yet charter schools continue to pull resources away from our public education system.

Additionally with medicare for all who want it, it would seem you maintain the hellish landscape for billing and insurance including the in and out of network mess we currently have. You also eliminate the promise of medicare for all which would ensure your can keep your current doctor (there's no way to lose your doctor if there is only one network). A lot of the benefits of medicare for all can only be realized through universality.

I do agree, Pete's plan is politically easier. I just worry that we try it, and because its a half measure it doesn't work as well as it should, and as a result we end up back where we are right now.

This. Obamacare ended up being 'meh" because it wasnt fully implemented as intended. It was a half ass measure screwed up by republican hands. Sometimes you have to just go all in. No half measures to be tampered with.

 

[darkswordsman17]

This is an unsustainable situation. The US is slowly but steadily drifting Right and only a sudden shift is going to stop it.

Did you quote the wrong person? I'm not sure what your comment has to do with my post? Multiparty will only strengthen the right wingers in the US.

 

[K1052]

This shit is so obnoxious and patronizing. I'm sorry a campaign volunteer was rude to your wife, I'm sure across the spectrum of Sanders's supporters there were volunteers that texted or said mean things and dumb things over the phone or while knocking on doors. The idea that stuff like that had any impact is ludicrous to me.

I heard two similar, less friendly, incidents from friends (pro Warren) who were contacted by the campaign. I don't get why people think this doesn't matter in the larger terms of perception of him and his campaign. My own discomfort with this certainly hasn't been reduced. I doubt those Warren voters I mentioned are going to jump Bernie when she drops out.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This shit is so obnoxious and patronizing. I'm sorry a campaign volunteer was rude to your wife, I'm sure across the spectrum of Sanders's supporters there were volunteers that texted or said mean things and dumb things over the phone or while knocking on doors. The idea that stuff like that had any impact is ludicrous to me.

Agreed however time and time again it is either the Presidents campaign people being rude or saying dumb things or Bernie’s people being rude of saying dumb things. Reinforcement makes it stick.
Definitely a problem Bernie has.
Also I understand how Bernie has some bottled lightning and it is hard to control but gives great energy. He needs to find some sort of middle ground where plans and energy can be productive together.
I’m not sure what that looks like but I’m not the candidate either.

Edit: look at your response it is an attack.

 

[woolfe9998]

While this is how it would ideally work, in practice it leaves the door open for republicans to more easily chip away at it because there is a private option. I could see it going the exact same way as education is going, where republicans start to pass legislation permitting vouchers for private insurance. This eats away at the funding for medicare for all. Study after study has shown that public schools in America are superior to charter schools in general, yet charter schools continue to pull resources away from our public education system.

Additionally with medicare for all who want it, it would seem you maintain the hellish landscape for billing and insurance including the in and out of network mess we currently have. You also eliminate the promise of medicare for all which would ensure your can keep your current doctor (there's no way to lose your doctor if there is only one network). A lot of the benefits of medicare for all can only be realized through universality.

I do agree, Pete's plan is politically easier. I just worry that we try it, and because its a half measure it doesn't work as well as it should, and as a result we end up back where we are right now.

Medicare's lower reimbursement rates guaranty that Medicare will be cheaper than private insurance. You'll get a plan with no deductibles, which for private insurance is a platinum plan, for less than the cost of a bronze plan that has massive deductibles. Private insurance cannot compete and will eventually go under or be relegated to a niche of selling cadillac plans for executives. Even if the repugs somehow passed a healthcare voucher that you could apply to any insurance of your choice, consumers will still choose Medicare because it's a better value.

A public option will eventually lead to MFA. It's inevitable.

 

[Bitek]

I appreciate that. I hope you appreciate the magnitude of what happened last night. Thousands of young Sanders volunteers across the country worked their asses off to try to nominate a candidate that at least promises to change course, and in a moment, everything was thrown back in their faces. No effort has ever been made by the Biden camp to appeal to these progressives, instead, Biden treats them with open contempt. I think the question of "will they vote for Biden in the GE" is the wrong question. I think the question is if they will abandon electoral politics entirely. I am at a complete loss as to what one could even say to someone like that to get them to continue. Again, impossible to overstate this: they were not out-worked, they did not lose to a superior campaign, they did not lose a better argument. they lost to candidate that didn't even bother campaigning at all.

I hear a lot of nasty comments coming from Bernie's camp about old voters and black voters in the South. I don't subscribe to any of that. It is an absolute mystery to me why anyone would vote for Biden, but at the end of the day, they did, and the facts on the ground are what they are.

What y'all have to understand too is that a bunch of us are far more concerned about winning than a revolution and we are not sold on Bernie's plans, which are high on ambition, but skimpy on details and pragmatic paths to success.

We remember past elections.

We remember 2009 and the bloody, bruising Obamacare fight, and have little appetite for signing up for an even bigger hc fight.

We remember the Obama administration and it was pretty good. Not perfect, but very good.

We see Bernie's record of accomplishment and his temperament and it doesn't give us confidence to both win in Nov and also govern effectively.

We understand too much is at stake to run such a risk on him. Maybe he could pull it off, IDK, but he's simply failed to sell the base on it, and his theory of turnout isn't happening.

Joe's not a shoe in, but he looks like the best we've got this year.

 

[sandorski]

Did you quote the wrong person? I'm not sure what your comment has to do with my post? Multiparty will only strengthen the right wingers in the US.

Your system is fucked. Even when it works as intended, it still disenfranchises a huge portion, possibly a majority, of the population.

 

[Bitek]

Status quo as in the economic disparity that led to the rise of a pied piper candidate. What bold changes do you envision Biden achieving?

It's possible, I think most people substitute who they think is most electable with who they personally prefer though.

Plus the GOP needs to take some accountability for their own house.

Trump is their monster.

Ds can take blame for not challenging Hillary with a good alternative and letting her shitty ass self blow a very winnable election to the orange baffoon.

I would have wished Ds could come up with a better field this year, but we got what we got. Obamas only come around so often. Biden would have won in 2016, and let's hope he can do it this time.

Ds need to notch more wins so we can build a deeper bench for the future.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The timing of the dropouts is telling. As Party Faithful they put the DNC first which helps Joe. That along with the "not Boomers" not turning out hurts Bernie. If Bernie is ahead then we'll have a contested convention and the "insignificant" 16% who "are no different than other voters" will decide in favor of Biden, or so I expect.

Meh, even if the fix is in I'll vote for Biden but for goodness sake no virtue signaling.

 

[Blackjack200]

What y'all have to understand too is that a bunch of us are far more concerned about winning than a revolution and we are not sold on Bernie's plans, which are high on ambition, but skimpy on details and pragmatic paths to success.

So this boils down to electability and pragmatism. You have no criticism of the platform other than that it would be difficult to achieve politically.

We remember past elections.

You do? Did you forget 2016? Christ almighty.

We remember 2009 and the bloody, bruising Obamacare fight, and have little appetite for signing up for an even bigger hc fight.

Sorry to hear that. I think health care is worth fighting for.

We the Obama administration and it was pretty good. Not perfect, but very good.

We see Bernie's record of accomplishment and his temperament and it doesn't give us confidence to both win in Nov and also govern effectively.

We understand too much is at stake to run such a risk on him. Maybe he could pull it off, IDK, but he's simply failed to sell the base on it, and the his theory of turnout isn't happening.

Joe's not a shoe in, but he looks like the best we've got this year.

Biden's "Record of accomplishment" is below sea level. He's talking about a Republican VP. My god.

Look at this shit. Even Biden's supporters barely believe in him. I guess we'll get to test their theory on his electability though.

 

[nakedfrog]

Joe's not a shoe in, but he looks like the best we've got this year.

Which is just sad, because his entire schtick is "Remember Obama? I was there too!"
He brings nothing to the table other than "I can beat Trump!" and that's not real convincing when he's so uninspiring.
I don't believe he would have won in 2016 either.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Medicare's lower reimbursement rates guaranty that Medicare will be cheaper than private insurance. You'll get a plan with no deductibles, which for private insurance is a platinum plan, for less than the cost of a bronze plan that has massive deductibles. Private insurance cannot compete and will eventually go under or be relegated to a niche of selling cadillac plans for executives. Even if the repugs somehow passed a healthcare voucher that you could apply to any insurance of your choice, consumers will still choose Medicare because it's a better value.

A public option will eventually lead to MFA. It's inevitable.

I think what could happen I that event is some private care company will target the least likely to need expensive care and they’ll all jump ship leaving Medicare with all the expensive people to cover.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I heard two similar, less friendly, incidents from friends (pro Warren) who were contacted by the campaign. I don't get why people think this doesn't matter in the larger terms of perception of him and his campaign. My own discomfort with this certainly hasn't been reduced. I doubt those Warren voters I mentioned are going to jump Bernie when she drops out.

I’m intrigued...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Your system is fucked. Even when it works as intended, it still disenfranchises a huge portion, possibly a majority, of the population.

No parties is the solution. Instead candidates are written in and a minimum threshold must be met for their name to be on a non party ballot.

Every candidate would have a list of affiliated party history, who financed them and more.

Donations go to a general pool to be divided among candidates with a higher proportion going to top candidates, but not where they have a crushing advantage over all others.

People will have to choose by criteria other than party backing.


That's a start.

 

[fskimospy]

The timing of the dropouts is telling. As Party Faithful they put the DNC first which helps Joe. That along with the "not Boomers" not turning out hurts Bernie. If Bernie is ahead then we'll have a contested convention and the "insignificant" 16% who "are no different than other voters" will decide in favor of Biden, or so I expect.

Meh, even if the fix is in I'll vote for Biden but for goodness sake no virtue signaling.

What fix though?

 

[Bitek]

The problem with medicare for all who want it is that it is subject to the same issues facing public education right now, the defunding of the program in favor of the private sector under the guise that the private sector will provide competition. That has been a disaster for public education, and my prediction is it would be a disaster for medicare for all who want it.

And M4A would have put the entire HC system under Trump and not allow buying private insurance as an alternative. Holy fuck.
Anyone feel comfortable signing up for that?

None of these countries Bernie touts go as far as he does. UK doesn't. Switzerland does have a private insurance system. Singapore uses a private system with HSAs.

Bernie's is too radical and he hasn't sold it.
Right now it looks like Trump's wall except he promises Mike Bloomberg will pay for it.

And if you have any family that's delt with the NHS, there are absolutely some short comings.
"You get what you get, and you don't get upset."
There is no promised land on hc.

 

[PlanetJosh]

I'm now for the old geezer revolution as I'm now for Biden. My hopes for a gay candidate to spark a revolution fell flat. And my support for the stiff revolution candidate failed (in reference to Bloomberg's personality.) And it's just sarcasm with the geezer term, I do hope Biden wins in November. And I realize old geezer is a redundant term but most people have been using it for decades so.

 

[IronWing]

He didn't have an answer. At all.

It was a whatabout Trump DUH-version. My statement still remains, Warren lied about being native american wrongly to try and win points instead of using her proper race.

Liar.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Well when no party represents a huge portion of peoples ideology, then many will just give up. I don't blade them to be honest. Id rather have a true multiparty system where "Bernie Bros" for example can be represented by a party that suits them, instead of always choosing the lesser of two evils approach where neither party is progressive enough for them. Were fucked either way, we may as well have choices that align with our ideologies.

You're delusional if you think that's going to benefit the things you want politically. Well I'd hope you wouldn't blade them, but sorry those are the people to blame, as are you if you're taking that bullshit dumbass attitude. That's exactly the problem. Can't get things you want your way, so fuck everything, right, its all shit anyways, so just throw up your hands and pout and vote/don't vote out of spite. Grow up.

Multiparty will not do jack shit to resolve the issues that are happening. Do I need to repeat how the exact same problems are happening in countries that have multiparty systems? Because it is, and it has happened before, and it will continue to happen if people keep losing their minds and everyone else just throwing up their hands and saying that they'll just not be involved then because everything is shit. Guess why its shit? Because you're helping let it be shit by having such a broken ass shit view and then actively supporting fucking shitheads espousing such shit views.

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm now for the old geezer revolution as I'm now for Biden. My hopes for a gay candidate to spark a revolution fell flat. And my support for the stiff revolution candidate failed (in reference to Bloomberg's personality.) And it's just sarcasm with the geezer term, I do hope Biden wins in November.

Biden vs. Trump Old Geezer PPV Fight. Winner takes all.

 

[IronWing]

Or she mistakenly believed family lore taught to her as a child & repeated it. It's certainly not Trump level mendacity no matter how badly you want to both sides the situation.

She wasn't mistaken. Her family told her she had native American blood and that turned out to be true.

 

[Blackjack200]

Liar.

Indeed she is. She also lied about rejecting Super PAC support. She's a wolf in sheep's clothing. A total vanity candidate. That's why I don't care as much as other Sanders supporters about her dropping out. Her supporters are not going to Sanders. I don't even think they would vote for him in the GE. They're generally terrible people.

 

[thilanliyan]

Which is just sad, because his entire schtick is "Remember Obama? I was there too!"
He brings nothing to the table other than "I can beat Trump!" and that's not real convincing when he's so uninspiring.
I don't believe he would have won in 2016 either.

I think he has a better shot this election, now that Trump is a known (and unliked) quantity. Although I think Trump still has a very real shot.

Agreed about his lack of clarity on policy.

 

[mect]

And M4A would the entire HC system under Trump and not allow buying private insurance as an alternative. Holy fuck.
Anyone feel comfortable signing up for that?

None of these countries Bernie touts go as far as he does. UK doesn't. Switzerland does have a private insurance system. Singapore uses a private system with HSAs.

Bernie's is too radical and he hasn't sold it.
Right now it looks like Trump's wall accept he promises Mike Bloomberg will pay for it.

And if you have any family that's delt with the NHS, there are absolutely sone short comings. There is no promised land on hc.

Yes, I would be comfortable signing up for that. Government is not evil unless you elect evil people to government. I'm far more comfortable with government running health care than I am with private, for profit corporations running health care. I'm not arguing government run health care would be perfect, but it would be significantly better than the private run mess we have now.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Liar.

Did someone drop you guys on your head? This isn't up for debate.
She claimed to be Native American.
She is not Native American.
She has been publicly called out by ACTUAL Native American groups and told that she isn't native american.
Tons of well established media (left leaning as well) have confirmed this.

The facts: Elizabeth Warren and her Native American ties

Update: In October 2018, Sen. Elizabeth Warren released a DNA report showing she has Native American ancestry. We asked

www.politifact.com

Elizabeth Warren again is pressed on past claims of Native American heritage

More than 200 Cherokees and other Native Americans urged Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren to fully retract her past claims to being Native.

www.latimes.com