How we treat the involuntarily unfortunate says volumes about the rest of us as a cultured civilization. We once were animals but we eventually found greater benefit in being civil to one another.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,800
- 6,356
- 126
Hmm, perhaps a Supercomputer(made from TBirds, of course 
)should be made. Every 10 years, a person would be required to make a pilgramige to the Super to determine their worth to society. If that person does not contribute, they are cleansed. This would probably suit Elledan just fine I'm sure, but not anyone in their right mind.
hpkeeper: It's ironic that you mention Stephen Hawking. If it wasn't for the Mentally Handicapped that came before him, he would be unable to communicate. In fact, he would have been cleansed if your criteria were enforced, if it wasn't for those you so want to cleanse from society.
Someone called hpkeeper a liberal. From what I've read, he sounds like a fiscal consertive gone mad, to me.
Ok, you guys can "improve" society, but it'll be over my dead body!
)should be made. Every 10 years, a person would be required to make a pilgramige to the Super to determine their worth to society. If that person does not contribute, they are cleansed. This would probably suit Elledan just fine I'm sure, but not anyone in their right mind.hpkeeper: It's ironic that you mention Stephen Hawking. If it wasn't for the Mentally Handicapped that came before him, he would be unable to communicate. In fact, he would have been cleansed if your criteria were enforced, if it wasn't for those you so want to cleanse from society.
Someone called hpkeeper a liberal. From what I've read, he sounds like a fiscal consertive gone mad, to me.
Ok, you guys can "improve" society, but it'll be over my dead body!
UG Quote:
<< How we treat the involuntarily unfortunate says volumes about the rest of us as a cultured civilization. >>
Amen! An atheist(UG) and a theist (me) agree
<< How we treat the involuntarily unfortunate says volumes about the rest of us as a cultured civilization. >>
Amen! An atheist(UG) and a theist (me) agree
Elledan its interesting to hear that you think your thoughts are actually 1000's of years more advanced than we can handle. From seeing your posting here and in other threads I recommend counseling.
Even if a person can't work or can't communicate with us by no means indicates they are doing something that isn't worth their time. Think of just how capable our brain is and how little we utilize it. Perhaps they are doing something else that we don't comprehend yet even? I'm actually a bit of an athiest but I don't believe its my place to determine who lives and who dies. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Even if a person can't work or can't communicate with us by no means indicates they are doing something that isn't worth their time. Think of just how capable our brain is and how little we utilize it. Perhaps they are doing something else that we don't comprehend yet even? I'm actually a bit of an athiest but I don't believe its my place to determine who lives and who dies. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I will risk going out on a limb here and possibly provide endless years of flame bait but:
none of you, while attacking elledan have provided a very coherent reason for why exactly elledan is so wrong. from the content of these posts, most of you seem to have a gut response against this kind of heartlessness and thus shoot the messenger. While I am not totally agreeing with elledan, I too have passed thorugh a phase of my life where so many of the world's problems have a nice, clean, "logical" solution to them. While it might seem instinctive to you to instantly flame elledan, think for a while without letting personal examples or empathy into the equation. I am not saying that elledan's view is "better" or "worse", I am just saying that if you can think in that sort of manner, you can see that he has a sort of a point no matter how misguided. Many people I know refelxivly shrink back from this kind of thought but in the end, you still need to look at the statistics and the facts rather than just the "personal" accounts and the media stories.
To me, elledan seems to have retracted away from the real world into a world where all of lifes problems can be solved with a "logical" solution but everybody else has also retracted from the problem by throwing morality, economics, ethics and personal experience into it. I am not saying that anybody's opinion, least of all mine, is right, but I think the all of you have something to learn from elledan and elledan has something to learn from everybody else as well.
On one end of the spectrum, yes there is a clear right or wrong answer, unfortuantly, that end of the spectrum is purely hypthetical. On the other end, we have a very real problem which does not have any obvious solution which can keep everybody happy and unfortunatly, this is a very real problem
none of you, while attacking elledan have provided a very coherent reason for why exactly elledan is so wrong. from the content of these posts, most of you seem to have a gut response against this kind of heartlessness and thus shoot the messenger. While I am not totally agreeing with elledan, I too have passed thorugh a phase of my life where so many of the world's problems have a nice, clean, "logical" solution to them. While it might seem instinctive to you to instantly flame elledan, think for a while without letting personal examples or empathy into the equation. I am not saying that elledan's view is "better" or "worse", I am just saying that if you can think in that sort of manner, you can see that he has a sort of a point no matter how misguided. Many people I know refelxivly shrink back from this kind of thought but in the end, you still need to look at the statistics and the facts rather than just the "personal" accounts and the media stories.
To me, elledan seems to have retracted away from the real world into a world where all of lifes problems can be solved with a "logical" solution but everybody else has also retracted from the problem by throwing morality, economics, ethics and personal experience into it. I am not saying that anybody's opinion, least of all mine, is right, but I think the all of you have something to learn from elledan and elledan has something to learn from everybody else as well.
On one end of the spectrum, yes there is a clear right or wrong answer, unfortuantly, that end of the spectrum is purely hypthetical. On the other end, we have a very real problem which does not have any obvious solution which can keep everybody happy and unfortunatly, this is a very real problem
Okay...I SWEAR this is my last comment on this subject.
POLL: Is Elledan not the most mentally ill person you have heard speak here? Or, am I? (who is admittedly mental.)
Man you should be in restraints in some state hospital somewhere. You are so far out there you need to reel yourself in.
I suggest you get a grip, grab the yellow pages and call a shrink or hotline somewhere buddy.
I don't know what your problem is but I would lay money that it's hard to pronounce.
POLL: Is Elledan not the most mentally ill person you have heard speak here? Or, am I? (who is admittedly mental.)
Man you should be in restraints in some state hospital somewhere. You are so far out there you need to reel yourself in.
I suggest you get a grip, grab the yellow pages and call a shrink or hotline somewhere buddy.
I don't know what your problem is but I would lay money that it's hard to pronounce.
I see that I've to clearify myself on one point:
Killing mentally disabled people. Should they be killed?
Answer: No.
People who are currently living but are mentally disabled can just live out their lives, provided that they can take care for themselves. We shouldn't spend lots of money on keeping Humans alive who can't do anything but requiring help. Killing them wouldn't have much use either, but they _must_not_ reproduce.
Then after all those mentally disabled person have died (natural cause), we'll focus on preventing this kind of situations by use of biotechnology, abortion and other techniques.
If a male and female insist on getting a mentally disabled child, then they are granted to do so, on a few conditions:
> Only a limited amount of mentally disabled are allowed to be born every year, so if the limit has been reached, they'll have to wait a year.
> Their child is prohibited to reproduce if the disease is genetical.
> The parents must grant the Government the right to track and follow the child.
When following those guide-lines, no problems should arise. Although it's not a perfect solution, it's better than the current chaos in which everyone can do what he/she wants and get as many mentally disabled children as possible.
'Cleansing' the Human race from genetical diseases by prohibiting the reproduction of people with serious genetic defects is a long-term solution (will take more than 10 generations) but it's an effective one and it's safe: for with the use of biotechnology two generations will be more than sufficient, but due to the fact that Humans are masters in creating disasters, side-effects will probably arise.
Killing mentally disabled people. Should they be killed?
Answer: No.
People who are currently living but are mentally disabled can just live out their lives, provided that they can take care for themselves. We shouldn't spend lots of money on keeping Humans alive who can't do anything but requiring help. Killing them wouldn't have much use either, but they _must_not_ reproduce.
Then after all those mentally disabled person have died (natural cause), we'll focus on preventing this kind of situations by use of biotechnology, abortion and other techniques.
If a male and female insist on getting a mentally disabled child, then they are granted to do so, on a few conditions:
> Only a limited amount of mentally disabled are allowed to be born every year, so if the limit has been reached, they'll have to wait a year.
> Their child is prohibited to reproduce if the disease is genetical.
> The parents must grant the Government the right to track and follow the child.
When following those guide-lines, no problems should arise. Although it's not a perfect solution, it's better than the current chaos in which everyone can do what he/she wants and get as many mentally disabled children as possible.
'Cleansing' the Human race from genetical diseases by prohibiting the reproduction of people with serious genetic defects is a long-term solution (will take more than 10 generations) but it's an effective one and it's safe: for with the use of biotechnology two generations will be more than sufficient, but due to the fact that Humans are masters in creating disasters, side-effects will probably arise.
I suppose a thread that starts out with the question Should mentally disabled people be kept alive? had nowhere to go but ugly, and it sure is there.
I don't know why you (elledan) think you've not made yourself clear, you have. Your ideas have proven distasteful and even hurtful to some and yet you cannot seem to stop spewing them out.
I don't know why you (elledan) think you've not made yourself clear, you have. Your ideas have proven distasteful and even hurtful to some and yet you cannot seem to stop spewing them out.
<<Your ideas have proven distasteful and even hurtful to some and yet you cannot seem to stop spewing them out. >>
Tell me: what is so 'distasteful' and 'hurtful' about my 'ideas'?
I'd like to hear some constructive counter-arguments this time instead of having to hear yet again that I'm 'a disgrace to Humanity', 'distasteful', a 'sick joke' and more unfounded critical exclamations.
I've made my point clear, so why don't you do the same?
Tell me: what is so 'distasteful' and 'hurtful' about my 'ideas'?
I'd like to hear some constructive counter-arguments this time instead of having to hear yet again that I'm 'a disgrace to Humanity', 'distasteful', a 'sick joke' and more unfounded critical exclamations.
I've made my point clear, so why don't you do the same?
I lied.
First of all, a mandatory castration for yourself is highly recommended per your statement that mentally ill persons should not be allowed to reproduce.
As for your comment for those who are dependent upon others for care and insinuation that they provide no contribution to society and therefore, "should be allowed to live out their lives..." I, personally provide no real contribution to society that I can think of...so, by your, "rules" I should be put to death?
Maybe I'm missing something here but you have got to be the most twisted, sick Phuck I have ever encountered on this planet.
Should I be banned from the forum for use of my language above. So be it. I just happen to be someone who usually says what other only wish they had the balls to speak themselves.
Ant to think that I usually have people argue with me about my own right to die should I decide that my personal battles are too much to endure!! What a crazy world we live in.
Interesting debate that has been exchanged here but you always find one real wacko that stands out in the crowd.
Geez...and to think that I am actually diagnosed as mental? I guess MY reality is twisted.
First of all, a mandatory castration for yourself is highly recommended per your statement that mentally ill persons should not be allowed to reproduce.
As for your comment for those who are dependent upon others for care and insinuation that they provide no contribution to society and therefore, "should be allowed to live out their lives..." I, personally provide no real contribution to society that I can think of...so, by your, "rules" I should be put to death?
Maybe I'm missing something here but you have got to be the most twisted, sick Phuck I have ever encountered on this planet.
Should I be banned from the forum for use of my language above. So be it. I just happen to be someone who usually says what other only wish they had the balls to speak themselves.
Ant to think that I usually have people argue with me about my own right to die should I decide that my personal battles are too much to endure!! What a crazy world we live in.
Interesting debate that has been exchanged here but you always find one real wacko that stands out in the crowd.
Geez...and to think that I am actually diagnosed as mental? I guess MY reality is twisted.
PretendHer, yes, you missed a lot of what I said.
In my last posts I've clearly said seriously mentally disabled people, i.e. people of who you're not even sure that they're aware of themselves or that they are more or less intelligent than a common dog.
I hope that you don't think that I were talking about you, since you seem to be a person of a normal intelligence.
BTW I never said that people who don't attribute to society should just 'live out their life'. I thought we were talking mentally disabled people here?
This must be the first thread at ATOT with so much hatred in it. Please keep in mind that I still haven't lost my temper and started yelling and calling names without thinking.
In my last posts I've clearly said seriously mentally disabled people, i.e. people of who you're not even sure that they're aware of themselves or that they are more or less intelligent than a common dog.
I hope that you don't think that I were talking about you, since you seem to be a person of a normal intelligence.
BTW I never said that people who don't attribute to society should just 'live out their life'. I thought we were talking mentally disabled people here?
This must be the first thread at ATOT with so much hatred in it. Please keep in mind that I still haven't lost my temper and started yelling and calling names without thinking.
<<Some like Elledan go as far as to act like little Paper Hanging Furhers stating that only those who aren't mentaly handicapped should be enabled to the rights that I feel that everybody should be entitled too, no matter what disdability they may have.>>
Wrong again.
I never said that everyone who is not 'healthy' should have less rights. I clearly said that mentally disabled people should be either avoided or regulated.
But if you think otherwise: fine with me, but don't come complaining if after a few hundred generations Humanity is reduced to something you can't even call 'intelligent' anymore.
Wrong again.
I never said that everyone who is not 'healthy' should have less rights. I clearly said that mentally disabled people should be either avoided or regulated.
But if you think otherwise: fine with me, but don't come complaining if after a few hundred generations Humanity is reduced to something you can't even call 'intelligent' anymore.
unxpurg8d
Golden Member
- Apr 7, 2000
- 1,373
- 0
- 71
PretendHer,
Where've you been hiding?! I'm going to go dig up something to disagree with you about JUST so I can have the joy of reading your responses! LOL
There are some people who have no idea about the realities of life, and until they've experienced them there is no way to show them how wrong they are.
Ellendan, realistically MOST people I know that have mentally-handicapped children have those children sterilized - particularly the girls because so-called "normal" people who CAN pass IQ tests seem to have a predilection for preying on those less fortunate. You'd be amazed at how many mentally-handicapped girls end up pregnant through rape. :|
You make it sound like you think these parents are CHOOSING to have mentally-disabled children. Huh????????????
"If a male and female insist on getting a mentally disabled child, then they are granted to do so, on a few conditions:"
I personally would rather have people mentally-handicapped through no fault of their own kept alive than those who seem to be choosing to mentally handicap themselves through prejudice, ignorance, and a total disregard for basic decency and humanity.
You're pretty brave in your concept of eliminating the world of those less worthy of living. What makes you so sure that YOU would be considered bright enough to be allowed to reproduce or even continue living if there are intellectual requirements put in place? What if only those of a certain IQ level are allowed those privileges - and YOU don't make the cut? You seem to be laboring under the misconception that YOU would be the standard by which the required level of mental capacity is measured.
Where've you been hiding?!
I'm going to go dig up something to disagree with you about JUST so I can have the joy of reading your responses! LOL There are some people who have no idea about the realities of life, and until they've experienced them there is no way to show them how wrong they are.
Ellendan, realistically MOST people I know that have mentally-handicapped children have those children sterilized - particularly the girls because so-called "normal" people who CAN pass IQ tests seem to have a predilection for preying on those less fortunate. You'd be amazed at how many mentally-handicapped girls end up pregnant through rape. :|
You make it sound like you think these parents are CHOOSING to have mentally-disabled children. Huh????????????
"If a male and female insist on getting a mentally disabled child, then they are granted to do so, on a few conditions:"
I personally would rather have people mentally-handicapped through no fault of their own kept alive than those who seem to be choosing to mentally handicap themselves through prejudice, ignorance, and a total disregard for basic decency and humanity.
You're pretty brave in your concept of eliminating the world of those less worthy of living. What makes you so sure that YOU would be considered bright enough to be allowed to reproduce or even continue living if there are intellectual requirements put in place? What if only those of a certain IQ level are allowed those privileges - and YOU don't make the cut? You seem to be laboring under the misconception that YOU would be the standard by which the required level of mental capacity is measured.
"People who are mentally disabled should be avoided or regulated" - Elledan
People like you SHOULD avoid people like me. I think people (mentally disabled) like me scare you. Although you say that I speak with, what did you call it. "normal intelligence?" Ha!! According to your views, I shouldn't be considered to have ANY intelligence.
Let me throw another iron into the fire here. I, along with a large number in the psych community, consider mental illness to be a type of gifted madness. You ask for a real debate instead of name calling? Okay then. Let's talk about that.
Many of histories greatest contributors were mad themselves and/or disabled in some way. It's not uncommon that those with autism, manic-depression, etc. have very high IQ's while being unable to function in society on, what you call, a contributional level. How bout those brilliant minds? Do we - and let's just use the word that you really would personally apply here - exterminate those? You may think that you are light years ahead of everyone else in terms of your thinking and maybe you have some kind of advanced thinking with a brilliant mind to boot. But, I think society should fear people like you. I'm a pretty sick puppy at times and my mind can go places it shouldn't but I can bet that you are probably certifiable. And I know what I'm talking about cuz I am.
I digress...please avoid me in the future as I see no real contribution to society that your provide other than to instill in others a disgust for intolerance an herent mistrust of strangers.
This is why, as my member name implies, we "pretend" to be normal when we know that society thinks otherwise...others like you may want to harm us in some way...whether by avoidance, regulation, extermination or just plain blanket stereotyping.
GAWD I'm glad I feel comfortable to speak freely. I know SO MANY who hide in shame from others. I can see your point, but I still think you're full of chit.
People like you SHOULD avoid people like me. I think people (mentally disabled) like me scare you. Although you say that I speak with, what did you call it. "normal intelligence?" Ha!! According to your views, I shouldn't be considered to have ANY intelligence.
Let me throw another iron into the fire here. I, along with a large number in the psych community, consider mental illness to be a type of gifted madness. You ask for a real debate instead of name calling? Okay then. Let's talk about that.
Many of histories greatest contributors were mad themselves and/or disabled in some way. It's not uncommon that those with autism, manic-depression, etc. have very high IQ's while being unable to function in society on, what you call, a contributional level. How bout those brilliant minds? Do we - and let's just use the word that you really would personally apply here - exterminate those? You may think that you are light years ahead of everyone else in terms of your thinking and maybe you have some kind of advanced thinking with a brilliant mind to boot. But, I think society should fear people like you. I'm a pretty sick puppy at times and my mind can go places it shouldn't but I can bet that you are probably certifiable. And I know what I'm talking about cuz I am.
I digress...please avoid me in the future as I see no real contribution to society that your provide other than to instill in others a disgust for intolerance an herent mistrust of strangers.
This is why, as my member name implies, we "pretend" to be normal when we know that society thinks otherwise...others like you may want to harm us in some way...whether by avoidance, regulation, extermination or just plain blanket stereotyping.
GAWD I'm glad I feel comfortable to speak freely. I know SO MANY who hide in shame from others. I can see your point, but I still think you're full of chit.
<<The parents must grant the Government the right to track and follow the child.>>
You are probably more typical in todays world. At least from what I've seen and heard lately. I bet you're the type that gets a cheap thrill out of the faces of death series too. I don't know. I don't think it's right to attack you personally because you may be just ignorant. I've said this before in all of the evolutional iterations of this bbs, you judge a nation by how it treats it's weakest citizens. UG said it here I see, in another way.
I wonder if you and Steven Hawking were in a closed room together, who would go crazy first and who would figure out how to get out first.
You are probably more typical in todays world. At least from what I've seen and heard lately. I bet you're the type that gets a cheap thrill out of the faces of death series too. I don't know. I don't think it's right to attack you personally because you may be just ignorant. I've said this before in all of the evolutional iterations of this bbs, you judge a nation by how it treats it's weakest citizens. UG said it here I see, in another way.
I wonder if you and Steven Hawking were in a closed room together, who would go crazy first and who would figure out how to get out first.
Aghh, damn [will attempt to defuse situation]
There seems to have been a misunderstanding going on between elledan and pretendher which is leading us nowhere but down a path to hatred.
when pretendher is reffering to mentally disabled people she draws an analogy to herself and is reffering to people who have some major or minor defect but are inherently human and intelligent.
when elledan refers to mentally disabled people, he is talking about the vegtables who have no way to communicate with the outside world, and as far as we know, do not have any of the "higher level" uses of their brain which we associate with being human.
For the first case, there is, of course heated debate and no black or white solution. For the second, there is a far more clear cut answer which is what, I assume, gives elledan the large amount of arrogance he seems to be projecting off him. When we look at the misunderstandings, it is very easy to lose your temper over a persons attitude to a grey area which seems very balck and white, Pretendher and elledan, I think both of you need to read the other persons posting again WITHOUT any preconcieved notions
There seems to have been a misunderstanding going on between elledan and pretendher which is leading us nowhere but down a path to hatred.
when pretendher is reffering to mentally disabled people she draws an analogy to herself and is reffering to people who have some major or minor defect but are inherently human and intelligent.
when elledan refers to mentally disabled people, he is talking about the vegtables who have no way to communicate with the outside world, and as far as we know, do not have any of the "higher level" uses of their brain which we associate with being human.
For the first case, there is, of course heated debate and no black or white solution. For the second, there is a far more clear cut answer which is what, I assume, gives elledan the large amount of arrogance he seems to be projecting off him. When we look at the misunderstandings, it is very easy to lose your temper over a persons attitude to a grey area which seems very balck and white, Pretendher and elledan, I think both of you need to read the other persons posting again WITHOUT any preconcieved notions
okay, I'm back... had to work last night, I couldn't keep an eye on this thread... I guess a few other people posted in it... wow...
End of chatter
Start of conversation
What about the use of body parts? I mean... they're difficient? how about someone that could use those body organs? I mean... it's hardly likely that a mentally disabled person is going to take full advantage of those organs... they aren't going to be productive in any point of their life. As to where someone who has worked their entire life who has been productive who might have gotten in an accident and may no longer live because they need an organ that could be produced from a mentally disabled person who probably would be of no purpose to the production in society anyways.... It's like genetically building parts for people who need them... like organ donation without dying.
End of chatter
Start of conversation
What about the use of body parts? I mean... they're difficient? how about someone that could use those body organs? I mean... it's hardly likely that a mentally disabled person is going to take full advantage of those organs... they aren't going to be productive in any point of their life. As to where someone who has worked their entire life who has been productive who might have gotten in an accident and may no longer live because they need an organ that could be produced from a mentally disabled person who probably would be of no purpose to the production in society anyways.... It's like genetically building parts for people who need them... like organ donation without dying.
From a purely sterile, scientific viewpoint Elledan may be right,
BUT:
The thing that separates us from the computers we use is our ability as a species to not judge the worth of a human being by their genetics. One disturbing notion is that we should, as a society, "track" or "register" the mentally disabled to keep them from polluting the gene pool. If your going to do that who's going to decide what "mentally disabled" is? Who among us would have the arrogance to stand up and say "I'll do it"? Not many I suspect, but for those who would I find you more dangerous to the sactity of the "gene pool" than any mentally ill person I've ever met. That kind of arrogance, in certain psychological circles, could be construed as mental illness. Seems kid of Hitleresque to me.
BUT:
The thing that separates us from the computers we use is our ability as a species to not judge the worth of a human being by their genetics. One disturbing notion is that we should, as a society, "track" or "register" the mentally disabled to keep them from polluting the gene pool. If your going to do that who's going to decide what "mentally disabled" is? Who among us would have the arrogance to stand up and say "I'll do it"? Not many I suspect, but for those who would I find you more dangerous to the sactity of the "gene pool" than any mentally ill person I've ever met. That kind of arrogance, in certain psychological circles, could be construed as mental illness. Seems kid of Hitleresque to me.
I still cannot believe that you people are arrogant enough to believe that YOU possess the power to judge the worth of a human. I assume that most of you are Christian or theist of some sort; don't you think that God is the only person who can judge other humans?
<< it's hardly likely that a mentally disabled person is going to take full advantage of those organs... they aren't going to be productive in any point of their life. >>
I cannot believe I'm even responding to a statement like this. You are so ignorant that whenever your mouth opens, shit pours out and seems to cover everyone. You must belong to the same borg civilization that Elledan is a member of. Did you ever think that maybe a mentally disabled person's life is worth JUST AS MUCH as your life? Or mine? Or anyone else? No, of course you didn't, because you're closed minded and naive to the reality that mentally disabled people aren't as worthless as you think.
What is your definition of worth? Adding to the economy? Doing work? Perhaps we should execute all people who are retired and pawn off their limbs to the "more valuable" humans. After all, they're not going to "be productive" anymore.
<< it's hardly likely that a mentally disabled person is going to take full advantage of those organs... they aren't going to be productive in any point of their life. >>
I cannot believe I'm even responding to a statement like this. You are so ignorant that whenever your mouth opens, shit pours out and seems to cover everyone. You must belong to the same borg civilization that Elledan is a member of. Did you ever think that maybe a mentally disabled person's life is worth JUST AS MUCH as your life? Or mine? Or anyone else? No, of course you didn't, because you're closed minded and naive to the reality that mentally disabled people aren't as worthless as you think.
What is your definition of worth? Adding to the economy? Doing work? Perhaps we should execute all people who are retired and pawn off their limbs to the "more valuable" humans. After all, they're not going to "be productive" anymore.
oh yeah... if people had the option to pay the tax to support these mentally disabled childeren/people, the problem of genetic cleansing would be solved.. because the families that have them couldn't afford them.... I know that this is cruel but those of you who have mentally disabled family members you should be thankfull for yourselves and the rest of the taxpayers in the united states. Also... you all say that you all have family members who have a mental disablilty that have grown to be a part of your family and you love them, well let me tell you, THAT'S GREAT!, but that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking once they come out of the birth canal they are taken away for spare parts or disposed of, where you don't have the time to get to know them.
So, if you have a family members that are mentally disabled, it should be a factor in your opinion, but don't use your family members in your response, it just makes the reply allot harder to write, I know that I try to make it seem nice but it's really tough because you've brought your personal life within the post. But from now on I'm going to take the theory that if you post about them you are willing to talk about them in the open like we are right now. The posts will seem allot meaner because it will seem more directed at you. I'm trying avoid conflict between members so please... avoid bringing family members within your posts.
Lastly:
This thread isn't as sickening about mentally disabled people as it is with regular people... what i find that is more disturbing than the topic of this thread is that normal people are willing to point fingers and accuse someone of being cruel, ignorant or stupid because they don't agree with you on what was meant for topic of conversation, not a vote in congress. So please, I saw Elledan get allot of feedback on how "stupid" and "ignorant" he was.. but please, let's keep it to a minimum, it's just a topic of conversation. You have a right to your opinion, let him have his.
So, if you have a family members that are mentally disabled, it should be a factor in your opinion, but don't use your family members in your response, it just makes the reply allot harder to write, I know that I try to make it seem nice but it's really tough because you've brought your personal life within the post. But from now on I'm going to take the theory that if you post about them you are willing to talk about them in the open like we are right now. The posts will seem allot meaner because it will seem more directed at you. I'm trying avoid conflict between members so please... avoid bringing family members within your posts.
Lastly:
This thread isn't as sickening about mentally disabled people as it is with regular people... what i find that is more disturbing than the topic of this thread is that normal people are willing to point fingers and accuse someone of being cruel, ignorant or stupid because they don't agree with you on what was meant for topic of conversation, not a vote in congress. So please, I saw Elledan get allot of feedback on how "stupid" and "ignorant" he was.. but please, let's keep it to a minimum, it's just a topic of conversation. You have a right to your opinion, let him have his.
I dont know the particular ethical questions surrounding this as I have never had someone close to me die but wouldnt it be much easier to just take all the organs out of perfectly healthy corpses rather than the relative minority who are disabled. The way I see it (which may no agree with the way you see it) is that taking out the intrnal organs, provided there are no gaping scars is not really "desecrating" a corpse since there are no outwardly marks and even taking the odd litre of blood shouldnt be that noticable. Also, I think that a family would gain a small amount of joy from knowing that their son/daughter/whatever helped make another human life better.
BTW: I am talking about car crash victims etc who are perfectly healthy, not people who died from a heart atack because they are overweight
BTW: I am talking about car crash victims etc who are perfectly healthy, not people who died from a heart atack because they are overweight
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