Should mentally disabled people be kept alive?

[KaBudokan]

Wow... with all this talk of cleansing and extermination, I am surprised more people haven't called you a Nazi.

Having known some families with severely handicapped children, I find it disturbing that more people aren't jumping all over this thread. Just goes to show that many prejudices are still acceptable. :|

 

[IamDavid]

"Sad to hear...but what's your stance?"

I don't believe anyone has the right to end a life inless it ends pain and suffering that can't be avoided.. I don't except the idea that somebody should be exterminated at birth due to there mentality or lack of.. Though they should not be allowed to have children.. Would this make me a compasionate murderer? Maybe..

 

[~zonker~]

Einstien didn't speak until he was 6 or 7, would he qualify as 'mentally disabled'?

euthanasia or eugenics, which are you proposing? Sounds like a mix to me. In any event, it troubles me as philosophy shrouded in the guise of bettering mankind. we have witnessed the results of similar thoughts. It's a sad commentary on humanity...

 

[konichiwa]

My god, I didn't even read the whole thread and already your proposition scares me. :|:|:|

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

it all depends on what you consider as having value.

1. any and all life has intrinsic value (good in itself)
2. life is only good because it allows some other good to be achieved (e.g. happiness, etc)

If you choose 2, then you will have to weigh the good (happiness, fulfillment etc) against the bad (depression, hardships, etc)

Then, having decided that the bad outweighs the good, you must decide:
1. whether you are morally required to kill for the benefit of the person (e.g. involuntary active euthanasia)
2. whether the person alone has the decision to make, even if they make the "wrong" decision, based on the mentioned criteria.

this and many other things to consider... it's a complex question.
Have a nice life =)

 

[PretendHer]

I reiterate again that, it's a personal decision. And the postings of all of you confirm that, each situation is individual and it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves - unless we are responsible for another - what is suitable and bearable.

If you want to talk about "society footing the bill," that can open up a whole nother can of worms involving a multitude of issues.

What sickens me and shows such lack of knowledge is when I hear/see mention of the word Nazi being used. Hitler and that bunch was on a whole nother ride at that time and, he was one of sickest F*&%S I have ever known. Should he have been put to death? I think he even knew the answer to that one when he was about to be captured as he took his own life. So, you see, WE all know for OURSELVES what is best. NOT necessarily "right" or "wrong." (I hate those two words!)

I will shut up for awhile now. Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Isla]

Just a thought.

I wonder how many mental illnesses and disabilities are actually caused by chemicals that we are exposed to before birth and as children.

Autism remains a mystery.... so does schizophrenia.

Could these problems be related to a sensitivity to agents in the environment, including but not limited to vaccines, chemical solvents, pesticides, etc?

I think so.

It's slightly off topic for this topic, but not really.

There seems to be a trend towards increasing cases of autism, attention-deficit disorders, etc.

Why?

I think we are much better off looking at these problems as everyones concern and not just the concern of the parents who have to deal with the reality of an illness or handicap.

That said, some of my most rewarding experiences have been working with challenged kids. They are, in many ways, the best people I have ever met.

 

[eakers]

this reminds me of a case happening in alberta where a man was convicted of 1st degree murder for killing his severly disabled child. he says she was in constant pain and could not even move she was on assisted breathing.
his last chance for freedom is to be pardoned by the canadian govt and there are a lot of ppl behind him on it.

i dont know where i stand.
i think everyone deserves the chance to live but then i dont know about what kind of lives severly disabled ppl live and how much brain activity occurs so im not at liberty to give an eductated opinon.

*kat. <-- not sure what she thinks

 

[sparkle]

Naturally, these people would not have survived. I feel we are doing an injustice to nature if we keep them alive through artificial means.

 

[KaBudokan]

&quot;What sickens me and shows such lack of knowledge is when I hear/see mention of the word Nazi being used. Hitler and that bunch was on a whole nother ride at that time and, he was one of sickest F*&amp;%S I have ever known.&quot;

Pretendher, I understand your concern about people &quot;throwing out&quot; comparisons like this. I really do.

But, as you stated, it is all a question of what the individual perceives. Hitler thought Jews were useless and couldn't contribute to his vision of society. &quot;Cleansing&quot; the gene pool would make it better for those &quot;fit&quot; to remain.

People in this thread have asserted that those with severe disabilities are &quot;useless.&quot; They don't fit into a certain &quot;vision of society,&quot; and so maybe should be disposed of.

In certain societies, women are considered &quot;useless,&quot; and if parents give birth to a girl, they dispose of her (literally), because they don't fit the family's vision of what they &quot;want.&quot;

I am not saying that those with this view of people with disabilities are &quot;Little Hitler's,&quot; but I think the parallels are disconcerting, and I am not far from it. Who is to say what is a &quot;disability?&quot; To Hitler, being Jewish was just as much of a disability as having Down's Syndrome or another disease.

If you ask a parent whose life has been enriched by a child with a disability, I am sure that many of them would call those people Nazis without hesitation. If you've ever seen a child (or adult) with a disability smile, you might be right there with them.

 

[Elledan]

<< Naturally, these people would not have survived. I feel we are doing an injustice to nature if we keep them alive through artificial means>>

I'll have to agree with sparkle.

Every time I hear how 'happy' some family is with a mentally disabled child and much it has 'enriched' their lifes I want to throw up. What can you possible learn from a 'defective' organism? How nice it is to have a working body instead of having to be fed and cared for every hour of the day? How nice is not to drool all day over your clothes and fall right on your face when you try to walk because you can't control any of your muscles? How nice it is not to have 'complete' awareness of yourself nor your environment?

Because we can and have the possibilities to keep a person alive even if it would die according to the laws of nature since it's 'defective', should we do it?

I don't think we should.

 

[Orbius]

A lot of 'handicapped' people put out more love, than so called normal people, who these days tend to be close-minded, arrogant, and greedy.
Anyway what right do we have to play God? The fact that handicapped people are born and suffer, should open our hearts to compassion, and make us desperately want to find the root causes, so we can help them.
America is awful for handicapped people, you never see them in public because they get jeered and pointed at, and they 'disturb' regular people. What shallow, shallow people.

 

[jacobnero6918]

The answer is absolutely NO! All human life should be considered precious and NOT for judgement by mankind.

 

[KotchY]

I bet my Dog is smarter then a seriously mental disabled person, she knows where to go to the bathroom and obey commands, yet in this society most people consider her an animal with no feelings, IE, a person kills a dog, he is not looked upon that badly because it was an &quot;animal&quot;

 

[KaBudokan]

<< Naturally, these people would not have survived. I feel we are doing an injustice to nature if we keep them alive through artificial means. >>



So following this argument, we shouldn't treat cancer, heart disease or any other illness. Those people would die without &quot;artificial means&quot; to keep them alive through treatment, and we wouldn't want to do any injustice to nature.

 

[konichiwa]

Who are you people to judge the life of another human being? It makes me sick to think that people like you feel that you are so superior that you should be able to judge the worth of human life.

Why don't we kill your grandmother, because she's really old? She's not doing anything more than a retarded person to help society, and she's wasting my money!

<< Every time I hear how 'happy' some family is with a mentally disabled child and much it has 'enriched' their lifes I want to throw up >>

Whenever I hear people say such ignorant statements, I want to throw up. You ask, what can someone learn from a &quot;defective&quot; organism? How about compassion? How about learning to not take your entire life for granted? If you think that all &quot;defective&quot; people are worthless to the community, then you are defective.

<< Because we can and have the possibilities to keep a person alive even if it would die according to the laws of nature since it's 'defective', should we do it? >>

Please. This statement only shows how little you know about mental disabilities. I'll bet you have no idea that many people who have mental disibilities wouldn't die any sooner than you would.


It's just completely amazing to me that you people are sitting here having a discussion about someone else's right to live. If you believe this is okay, what's to stop the KKK from killing all blacks and jews at birth because they're a &quot;defective species&quot;? God, this is incredible. I am dumbfounded. :disgust:

:|:|:|

 

[SackOfAllTrades]

All you need is love.

 

[Orbius]

Kotchy, yes there are some severely handicapped people in this country, but they are our responsibility. Just because you find someone hard to deal with or they make you feel uncomfortable you can't wipe them from the earth, thats your ego talking. You'd be better off opening up to the reality of these people, who knows you might actually feel some compassion.

 

[Elledan]

<< Anyway what right do we have to play God? The fact that handicapped people are born and suffer, should open our hearts to compassion, and make us desperately want to find the root causes, so we can help them.>>

The root causes of their suffering? The fact that they're born. Why not grand them a swift and painless death instead of a long and painfull life filled with hardships?

Actually the question we should ask ourselves by now is:

What do we want to accomplish with Humanity?

Should we just go on like now or should we take some drastic actions?

I consider the current situation to be much alike when one or more people are seized and kept hostage: as long as the outsiders (police, for example) try to get the hostages back alive, the hostage-taker(s) know that they've control the situation. But when the value of the life of a hostage is considered to be irrelevant and the police enters the building and kills the hostage-taker(s) other people who consider taking some people hostage will know that that will proof to be futile.

In this case, the hostages are ethics, religious values and other ballast we've build up over the years. The hostage-takers are the people who use parts of the ballast to control other people (and mostly fool themselves as well). If we finally come to the conclusion that we don't need all the extra ballast and throw it off, Humanity would be a lot more free than it was before.

Chances that this will happen, however, are very small, since Humans are Human.

 

[KotchY]

The Human Society is screwed up already, letting these people live is not benefiting nor harming it, You forget of the parents of these people whom are attached to them emotionally.

 

[JohnGalt]

descrates would say: cogito ergo sum
si non cogito, non sum

 

[db]

&quot;that have no use to our society&quot;
&quot;what is their function in society&quot;
&quot;if we went through some generations of some cleansing&quot;

The question is: Who decides?

fwiw, a highly intelligent race of aliens could look upon us, decide that (relatively speaking) we're a waste of resources, and stomp us for the bugs we are.

I have to agree though, the use of the word &quot;cleansing&quot; is rather scarry. Tell me hpkeeper, are you pure? Would you be one of the spared ones, or would you like to do the choosing?

 

[Yeeny]

<< Need some vetran posters to post on this thread to keep order (GF, Red Dawn) >>

Um, excuse me, but do not look to me to keep order on this thread. What I am sure you do not realize hpkeeper, is that my brother is autistic and mentally handicapped. And he is a wonderful human being, who I adore. To say he should die because he is different then so called normal you? WTF! While you may think you are so much more useful to the world then people like him, I have never seen him EVER say an unkind word about anyone. Now, can you look in the mirror and say the same thing? :|

Every time I hear how 'happy' some family is with a mentally disabled child and much it has 'enriched' their lifes I want to throw up. What can you possible learn from a 'defective' organism? How nice it is to have a working body instead of having to be fed and cared for every hour of the day? How nice is not to drool all day over your clothes and fall right on your face when you try to walk because you can't control any of your muscles? How nice it is not to have 'complete' awareness of yourself nor your environment?

How nice is it to live in a world filled with compassionate and understanding people like yourself. You make me sick Elledan, literally. I don't know how you can look at yourself in the mirror in the morning.

This thread has only reminded me how cruel and cold hearted people can be. You talk about mentally ill people as if they are no better than something icky you stepped on and decided to scrape off your shoe. No bother to you, why should it be?

 

[db]

hpkeeper and Elledan, you have sh!t in your own lunch box, and for that you must be cleansed.

 

[KaBudokan]

I agree GF. It is frightening.

Elledan is apparantly taking his Borg icon a little too seriously.

I mean, why would we want to be a race with ethics?

People are whacked.