Serious question about mormons

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: xirtam

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Out of curiosity, there are 12 major denominations of Christians, not including the smaller churches -- why go with a non-Christian church?

you are implying that the church in question is "non-Christian" , that is false

It's not false. One of the major points in contention between the mormon faith and Christianity is the concept of God, which is foundational to any faith. A mormon is taught, "As God is, man may become." (in a speech by Joseph Smith, echoed by Lorenzo Snow, and it may have worked its way somewhere into Doctrine and Covenant.) Christians are taught that men are naturally evil and sinful and require salvation by faith in Christ. Mormons practice a salvation by works, which is why I see a lot more devoted mormons than Christians.

Your faith isn't something you should choose on the basis of what good it can do for you or because you like being around those kinds of people or because you feel like you should or because your parents drag you to church. The only reason to accept a faith is because you believe it to be true.

Mormons teach that men are naturally evil as well, check out Mosiah 3:19 (it's in the Book of Mormon, oh noes!): "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been since the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit . . . "

Mormons dont teach salvation by works any more than the Apostle Paul did. Granted, we may not run across baseball fields and throw up our hands and say "I'm saved! I'm saved!" but we do accept the grace of Jesus Christ in virture of the blood he spilt and his suffering.

If we are to think that God will not save us or anyone based on the fact that we are wrong about the substance that he is made of (Trinity or not) then we're all in deep trouble. We just have to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and that he redeems us....which you and Mormons both do. The idea of trinity came together around 300 AD -- does the Nicene Creed ring a bell?

 

[midwestfisherman]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Not to mention that each Mormom is required to make a 2 year pilgrimage out in the world where all they do is try and convert others...

One of my best friends is currently in the second year of his mission. I'll tell you what, though... as a whole, Mormons are by far the nicest group of people I know. Although I do question the basis of his religion, especially when he claims to be a Christian, I have never (and will never) question his faith.

Similar to Catholisism, Mormonism has many rules that must be strictly followed. If you don't, you will never be inducted into the temple (or you will eventually be ex-communicated). Some were mentioned above, such as not being allowed to consume caffeine (even though that is impossible to do by definition), etc.

Of course, I am by no means an expert in Mormonism. I have read the Book of Mormon (naturally, my friend was required to send me a copy) and have had many discussions with him about it, but that is the extent of my knowledge.

However, whatever you do, don't call the Mormon church unless you are really serious about joining. The moment they receive the call, you will have two members at your doorstep wanting to convert you (well, once they get off of their bicycles, that is ).

Yes, they are nice people, as long as you're a member or they're trying to convert you. As an ex-Mormon I can speak from experience. I left the Mormon church to go into a christian church (bible believing that is), and as soon as I left and they heard I was in a different church, all of my "friends" from the Mormon church quit speaking to me and I was ex-communicated from the Mormon church. I even got a letter from the Salt Lake City headquarters....

Anyhow, I would encourage you to look elsewhere for your spiritual enlightenment. Once into the Mormon church I found the beliefs and practices to be quite strange in many instances. Even though they say that they believe in the bible and even try to claim they are a christian religion which believes in the diety of Jesus Christ, they are not. There are far too many contradictions in their scriptures, to be able to reconcile them in a rational manner.

Good luck in your search.

 

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: whattaguy
Mormonism - based on what man needs to do; legalism
Christianity - based on what God has already completed through Jesus; grace

Are you kidding me? The idea and concept of grace is prevalent throughout our scriptural canon and is taught by our church leaders. Yes, it does appear that Latter-day Saints do a lot more. Perhaps it seems that they are working our their salvation with fear and trembling. However, you are missing the big picture. Joseph Smith said that everything that is taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is but an appendage to the atonement of Jesus Christ. Mormon scripture teaches that there is no other name given under heaven whereby men may be saved except through Jesus only.

The "works" Mormons do are no different than the good works you do through the grace of Jesus. We believe that those works are an outward manifestation of an inward change.

 

[stephenw22]

I'm a member of the "Mormon" church (it's actual name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints).

I volunteered to serve as a missionary for two years. I was in South Korea. I wasn't a fan of going door-to-door, talking to people. It's actually the worst way to find interested people, so we only did it when there were no other options open for us to proselyte.

I've been married for about 5 years. No kids yet, and none planned for the next few years. We both have university degrees. I'd never, ever home-school my kids, it seems unfair to take away that experience from them.

What's the big deal about polygamy? Even if it were allowed, I can barely afford 1 wife, let alone 30. No thanks!

I don't drink or smoke, and I try to be conscious of what I feed into my body, avoiding stuff that would hurt it, or make me lose control of it. To me, our beliefs about diet are more about staying in control of yourself than anything else. Same goes for bad language.

I believe in being saved by grace, but also that when you truly believe something, it shows in everything you do. Faith and works are a pair, like north and south on a magnet. You can't truly have one without the other manifesting itself.

I believe that God still talks to prophets today, just like he used to. If you believe that Abraham or Moses could talk to God, why not in our day?

I believe that good science fits with good religion. God operates using the laws of science that he created, or else he wouldn't have created them.

As for the Book of Mormon, why is it so hard to believe that people could sail across the ocean? Are you so arrogant to think that only a European, living 2000 years later, could do it? It's likely that there were many groups that have found their way to the Americas over the last 2500 years. They could have come across oceans, over the ice cap, across the Bering Strait, etc. It would be stupid to think that every native American has descended from that single group. It only covers about 1000 years of history, so it's quite possible that they wouldn't have had a chance to overlap into other groups' territory or space during that time, depending on their geographical location and the number of groups.

Anyways, the basic deal is that if someone really wants to know if any of this stuff is true, they need to gather the info and decide for themselves, through personal prayer. I can't tell you that this is true, any more than another schmoe here can tell you it's crap. God is an unbiased 3rd party who can make a deciding vote.

 

[bobbybe01]

If someone can talk you into it, someone can talk you out of it. Decide for yourself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman
Yes, they are nice people, as long as you're a member or they're trying to convert you. As an ex-Mormon I can speak from experience. I left the Mormon church to go into a christian church (bible believing that is), and as soon as I left and they heard I was in a different church, all of my "friends" from the Mormon church quit speaking to me and I was ex-communicated from the Mormon church. I even got a letter from the Salt Lake City headquarters....

Anyhow, I would encourage you to look elsewhere for your spiritual enlightenment. Once into the Mormon church I found the beliefs and practices to be quite strange in many instances. Even though they say that they believe in the bible and even try to claim they are a christian religion which believes in the diety of Jesus Christ, they are not. There are far too many contradictions in their scriptures, to be able to reconcile them in a rational manner.

Good luck in your search.

Pardon me, but I seriously doubt that you were ex-communicated. I left the Mormon church half my life ago, initially to join an evangelical congregation (similar to your experience), and I was neither disfellowshipped nor ex-communicated. AFAIK, my name is still on the church rolls (as I never asked for it to be removed either, as later on my father and 2 of my brothers voluntarily did). In fact, it is very difficult to be ex-communicated from the church, requiring that an actual serious transgression have taken place and the unanamious judgement of 15 church leaders.
Anyway, you want contradictions, try reconciling the teachings of Paul with the teachings of Jesus. Not always easy, which is why I find that most people who call themselves Christians actually believe in Paul or Moses before they believe in Jesus, sad as that is.


I would ask all the Christians here to ask themselves one question: would you usurp the throne of God for your own glory? Why do I ask this? Because when you cast judgement upon people based upon the differing manner of their faith, saying "these will saved and these will be damned", then that is exactly what you are doing. His Will be done, and not yours and not mine. IMO, it is only when you truly believe in His Will that you have truly found faith (I'm still working on it of course).

editted for some typos

 

[rhino56]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jread

Originally posted by: rhino56
i believe in God, but not because people have told me of him, but because his wonders have been made known to me.

That is basically the core belief of Deism. I consider myself a Deist and I think there are many others who believe the same but don't even know about Deism.

http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

What do you call seeing is believing? and someone who believes in evolution?

a bird spoke to me. i been a vegetarian ever since.

 

[bobbybe01]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman
Yes, they are nice people, as long as you're a member or they're trying to convert you. As an ex-Mormon I can speak from experience. I left the Mormon church to go into a christian church (bible believing that is), and as soon as I left and they heard I was in a different church, all of my "friends" from the Mormon church quit speaking to me and I was ex-communicated from the Mormon church. I even got a letter from the Salt Lake City headquarters....

Anyhow, I would encourage you to look elsewhere for your spiritual enlightenment. Once into the Mormon church I found the beliefs and practices to be quite strange in many instances. Even though they say that they believe in the bible and even try to claim they are a christian religion which believes in the diety of Jesus Christ, they are not. There are far too many contradictions in their scriptures, to be able to reconcile them in a rational manner.

Good luck in your search.

Pardon me, but I seriously doubt that you were ex-communicated. I left the Mormon church half my life ago, initially to join an evangelical (similar to your experience), and I was neither disfellowshipped nor ex-communicated. AFAIK, my name is still on the church rolls (as I never asked for it to be removed either, as later on my father and 2 of my brothers voluntarily did). In fact, it is very difficult to be ex-communicated from the church, requiring that an actual serious transgression have taken place and the unanamious judgement of 15 church leaders.
Anyway, you want contradictions, try re-conciling the teachings of Paul with the teachings of Jesus. Not always easy, which is why I find that most people who call themselves Christians actually believe in Paul or Moses before they believe in Jesus, sad as that is.


I would ask all the Christians here to ask themselves one question: would you usurp the throne of God for your own glory? Why do I ask this? Because when cast judgement upon people based upon the differing manner of their faith, saying "these will saved and these will be damned, then that is exactly what you are doing. His Will be done, and not yours and not mine. IMO, it is only when you truly believe in His Will that you have truly found faith (I'm still working on it of course).

Nice post. And this is coming from a Latter-day Saint. :thumbsup:

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: DougK62
I can't believe so many of you "Christians" in here ragging on the Mormons. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

OBVIOUSLY you don't agree with what they teach - if you did you'd be a Mormon too. There's no need to be little bitches about it.

The Mormons are a nice bunch of people. Just do your own thing and let them do theirs in peace.

RELAX.

It isn't that we don't agree with what they teach, rather their manipulation/amending of the scripture. Polygamy, each man becoming their own "god" so to speak, and various blasphemous ideas that are not present in the Koran nor the Bible are in their "book of the mormon"

But WHATEVER. I don't want to flame, but I sure as heck know that the Mormons will be flaming along with me in the lake of fire after the rapture :|

Gee, if you read The Book of Mormon, you would not have found any of that information in there! Wow!
Polygamy is mentioned in the Bible. Each man becoming their own "god" is not referenced in the Bible directly, look in Romans and Revlations. The Doctrine and Covenants (other scriptures which we have) does mention eternal progression and inheirting all that the Father hath; being joint-heirs with Christ.

I'm not really sure how this is all blasphemous. The Pharisees and the Sanhedrein in Jesus' day thought he was being blasphemous. And, just like some of those New Testament times, there were those who believed Jesus and the Apostles were nuts. They were unwilling to listen.

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

Jesus = miracles
Joseph = self-publicized book

Jesus wasn't the only one that performed miracles; recall that Peter, one of the faithful, healed the sick through faith manifesting into a miracle. MANY MANY MORE EXAMPLES. Joseph being such an important, modern-day prophet with such a great message to bring unto Man, yet.... where is his faith? where is his substance? What? Read his book?

I am willing to bet that if anyone was to magically travel back in time, meet Jesus, and see his work, you'd be a true believer. Although, that question can then be turned around. If Jesus was to appear in this very time and do what he did centuries ago, then there would also be a great conversion of faiths to Christianity.

HOWEVER, why is Christianity still such a huge religion even though it's been 2000 years since anyone has seen his miracles? Is it the message it brings? The Good News? I really don't think the Bible needs much changing around or additions for contemporary Man to figure out the main message.

Just another man trying to capitalize on being the last prophet. For all you know, I could be the last prophet; my vision just didn't broadcast yet.

 

[stephenw22]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

 

[SaltBoy]

Those darn Mormons, always wanting me to teach their 8 year-old kids during Sunday School... GOSH!!

 

[Stark]

if everyone focused on Jesus instead of the different ways His followers choose to worship Him, the world would be a much better place.

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

Yup, those Utah Salt Lake City newspapers sure are great documentation of them miracles.
:roll:

 

[stephenw22]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

Yup, those Utah Salt Lake City newspapers sure are great documentation of them miracles.
:roll:

I've never read a Salt Lake City newspaper, so I have NO idea what you are talking about. Miracles really mean nothing, though. Tons of people claim to do miracles, in every religion, Christian or not.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Stark
if everyone focused on Jesus instead of the different ways His followers choose to worship Him, the world would be a much better place.

Indeed. Thank you

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

Yup, those Utah Salt Lake City newspapers sure are great documentation of them miracles.
:roll:

I've never read a Salt Lake City newspaper, so I have NO idea what you are talking about. Miracles really mean nothing, though. Tons of people claim to do miracles, in every religion, Christian or not.

Make sure to KIT with me when his second coming is upon us, we'll see if Joseph Smith Jr. is waiting at the gates to the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

Yup, those Utah Salt Lake City newspapers sure are great documentation of them miracles.
:roll:

If you require a miracle to coerce you to "believe" then you're missing the entire point of being religious.

 

[MechJinx]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Hammer
mechjinx:

please post your beliefs on the life of smith and also on the people in the pre-columbian americas.

avoiding the question then?

Geez, can't a guy do some work? Work came up, and I kind of want to keep my job. hehe

What would you like to know about Joseph and the pre-columbian Americas. My beliefs about them would take A LOT of time to expound on. My beliefs coincide with the Book of Mormon and what is written in the authorized publication of the Church History. I would be glad to expound on specifics, not generals for the sake of time. Sorry.

Short set of beliefs about Joseph Smith and pre-columbian Americas.

I belive that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that he did have a vision in which he saw our Heavenly Father(God) and Jesus Christ, His son. I believe that he organized The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints under the direction of Jesus Christ. I believe that he translated the Book of Mormon from the original gold plates through divine help.

I believe that the cultures described in the Book of Mormon did exist on the Americas and that the Book of Mormon is a record of those people, that descibes both temporal and spiritual events that took place in their culture.

Anything futher, please be more specific so I can answer the question in a paragraph or two, please. I do have work that needs to be done so I don't lose my job But, I will be happy to answer any questions about my beliefs or answer questions about my religion to the best of my ability or refer you to sources that will have accurate information.

Thank you to those who understand why I said you should talk to members or read authorized literature instead of bashing me for saying so.

And, to those that believe I'm insane and believe in a cult. You are very much entitled to your beliefs and I respect that and will not try to dissuade you from that. But, if you are going to print what I KNOW to be innaccuracies about something I believe strongly in, I hope that you can understadn why I respond with what I understand to be the truth as a member of that religion. I am not doing it to put you down. This thread was started by someone who had real questions about the LDS church and it wasn't until I was challenged to put my money where my mouth is that I even tried to start defending my religion because I know the vehemence that a small percentage of people greet anything dealing with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or religion in general.

 

[stephenw22]

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Make sure to KIT with me when his second coming is upon us, we'll see if Joseph Smith Jr. is waiting at the gates to the kingdom of heaven.

KIT???

Kneel In Time ??

Kick It Through ??

???

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Stark
if everyone focused on Jesus instead of the different ways His followers choose to worship Him, the world would be a much better place.

Indeed. Thank you

Better yet, if everyone just focused on being kind and responsible people then the world would be a better place. Leave all the fictional persona's, their fictional deeds, and their fictional parents out of it.

 

[MechJinx]

Originally posted by: Papagayo
Ask them about their special underwear..

Mormons have sacred underware of sort that they don't like to talk about..

Because it is sacred. If I asked you to spout off about something you think is sacred and I deal with it in a flippant matter, of course you would be upset.

Yes, we wear undergarments as symbol of covenants that we have made with God. Please give it the respect that we place upon it as you would ask me to place on something that you held in very high regard. Thank you.

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: Atomicus

Originally posted by: stephenw22

Originally posted by: Atomicus

So... I guess accounts of seeing Jesus' death shaking the earth and then later on his ascension makes him a nut. The day I see miracles performed by the grace of God through faith by Joseph Smith is the day I become a Mormon. Non-believers of Jesus back in the day referred to him as a magician, physician, and a heretic. What other way to prove that he is the way, the truth, and the life by which eternal salvation can be achieved? MIRACLES. He may have used scripture and Judaic law to disprove false beliefs, but he performed miracles as living testiments for the people to see.

...

And they still crucified Jesus. Miracles don't convince non-believers, they only strengthen those who already believe.

There are plenty of stories of miracles performed by Mormons. You just don't want to find them.

Yup, those Utah Salt Lake City newspapers sure are great documentation of them miracles.
:roll:

If you require a miracle to coerce you to "believe" then you're missing the entire point of being religious.

Poor use of the word "coerce". And I don't require miracles to believe, I'm already a believer of Jesus and his word and will.
The problem I have is believing that JS Jr. was a prophet. And I probably never will since I only need Jesus, the bible, and live my life faithfully and according to God's will. Who is this JS Jr. to proclaim prophecy? The Lord's will and word has already been handed down to us centuries ago.

Sorry, but there are different versions/translations of the bible, but they were all based on Bible v1.0 and still retain the title "BIBLE".

 

[Atomicus]

Originally posted by: MechJinx

Originally posted by: Papagayo
Ask them about their special underwear..

Mormons have sacred underware of sort that they don't like to talk about..

Because it is sacred. If I asked you to spout off about something you think is sacred and I deal with it in a flippant matter, of course you would be upset.

Yes, we wear undergarments as symbol of covenants that we have made with God. Please give it the respect that we place upon it as you would ask me to place on something that you held in very high regard. Thank you.

Was it not Jesus who said that the covenant with him was to take his body and his blood?

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: MechJinx

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: Hammer
mechjinx:

please post your beliefs on the life of smith and also on the people in the pre-columbian americas.

avoiding the question then?

Geez, can't a guy do some work? Work came up, and I kind of want to keep my job. hehe

What would you like to know about Joseph and the pre-columbian Americas. My beliefs about them would take A LOT of time to expound on. My beliefs coincide with the Book of Mormon and what is written in the authorized publication of the Church History. I would be glad to expound on specifics, not generals for the sake of time. Sorry.

Short set of beliefs about Joseph Smith and pre-columbian Americas.

I belive that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that he did have a vision in which he saw our Heavenly Father(God) and Jesus Christ, His son. I believe that he organized The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints under the direction of Jesus Christ. I believe that he translated the Book of Mormon from the original gold plates through divine help.

I believe that the cultures described in the Book of Mormon did exist on the Americas and that the Book of Mormon is a record of those people, that descibes both temporal and spiritual events that took place in their culture.

Anything futher, please be more specific so I can answer the question in a paragraph or two, please. I do have work that needs to be done so I don't lose my job But, I will be happy to answer any questions about my beliefs or answer questions about my religion to the best of my ability or refer you to sources that will have accurate information.

Thank you to those who understand why I said you should talk to members or read authorized literature instead of bashing me for saying so.

And, to those that believe I'm insane and believe in a cult. You are very much entitled to your beliefs and I respect that and will not try to dissuade you from that. But, if you are going to print what I KNOW to be innaccuracies about something I believe strongly in, I hope that you can understadn why I respond with what I understand to be the truth as a member of that religion. I am not doing it to put you down. This thread was started by someone who had real questions about the LDS church and it wasn't until I was challenged to put my money where my mouth is that I even tried to start defending my religion because I know the vehemence that a small percentage of people greet anything dealing with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or religion in general.

thanks for your reply. to be more specific, do you believe the people a semetic people lived in pre-colombian america, and that they possessed technology on par with the western world?

 

[Electric Amish]

Poor use of the word "coerce". And I don't require miracles to believe, I'm already a believer of Jesus and his word and will.
The problem I have is believing that JS Jr. was a prophet. And I probably never will since I only need Jesus, the bible, and live my life faithfully and according to God's will. Who is this JS Jr. to proclaim prophecy? The Lord's will and word has already been handed down to us centuries ago.

Sorry, but there are different versions/translations of the bible, but they were all based on Bible v1.0 and still retain the title "BIBLE".

So, weren't Moses and some of those other people in the "BIBLE" proclaimed as prophets?