Serious question about mormons

[i3rYs0n]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Pick a church based on its befielfs and teachings, not the personality of its congregation...

PSH, if people did that no one would go. My mom told me a while back that she goes to socialize with people that she enjoys being around.

Besides that, generally people that go to church are good/nice/friendly people.

Bryson

 

[Technonut]

Here is an old thread with over 800 posts... :Q

Is The Mormon Religion A Cult

Plenty of views and info from all sides....

 

[Carazariah]

Originally posted by: Vic
Carazariah, good post. I didn't click your links but your argument was well-stated.

IMO, Eph: 2:8-10 is the most misunderstood passage in the Bible. Christ Himself (in Matthew 7, a part of which I posted above) said that no one can be saved solely by faith, neither can anyone be saved solely by works. James said that both faith and works are required for salvation -- that if you have faith, then you have works, and if you have works, then you have faith. The 2 are complementary, not opposed, as many Protestant sects seem to believe, and the crutch of Eph: 2:8-10 that they seem to rely on to justify their sinful lives, or lack of necessary faith to actual attempt to live a righteous life.

In Matthew 22, Christ gave His great commandments, in which He said that loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself, was the most important commandments and that "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments". Loving God is faith, but is not loving your neighbor "works"?
Regardless, James 2:18 says it best IMO - "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do."
If you have faith, then you will have good deeds (works). If you do not have works, then it is because you lack faith.

Hope this helps. I know this is controversial, but the Bible and the Teachings and Life of Jesus are clear on the subject. All Ephesians 2:8-10 is telling us is that salvation is a gift from God. Nothing more. Of course it is. If the entire purpose of your faith is simply to selfishly acheive salvation for your own glory, then (pardon me here) you need to re-examine your faith. Faith is not the selfish quest for salvation, it is the belief that God's plan for the world is the right one, and to attempt to walk in His footsteps.

Despite all their convoluted beliefs, it is the Mormon's steadfast honesty on this issue that I admire most about them. They try to do more than talk the talk...

Thanks Vic,
Well Stated and succinct response: I would concur with your assesments of the scriptures above. I think the best understanding is to look at the Greek for "workmanship" in Eph 2:10 Here Paul tells the Christians in Ephesus that they are God's Masterpiece, the understanding recieved through studying my Greek Interlinar and commentaries was a sense that each of us individually are Master works of Living Art carefully crafted by God Almighty. The careful creation and the fact that God knows all the good we will do before we ever do it is both comforting and challenging to myself. These two passages do point to the hand and glove connection: James says it "Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith by what I do" (My paraphrase)

Secondly I would agree with the assesment at least personally of the Mormon's I know, the are steadfast to what they believe:

Thanks for the feedback and the conversation:

C

 

[randalee]

Just another Mormon checkin' in here... Seems like everything is pretty under control, so I don't have much to add. Original Poster - what have you been able to gather from the thread?

 

[SaltBoy]

Those silly Mormons, always wanting me to help my neighbor out when he moves... GOSH!!

 

[MillionaireNextDoor]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Reasons I don't like mormons. These come from a mormon I know/knew:

- He thought swearing was absolutely horrendous and evil. One word. At age 30 he would start SCREAMING in our class when someone dropped a word or two in a joke (AMONGST THEMSELVES no less..not even involving him). He would make it a point to be overly arsehole about it and come tell us or he would tell the lab instructors (LOL)

- He (and his religion) put too much emphasis on the family structure. He told me flat out they believe the only way to heaven is having many children. I about fell off my chair laughing. Him and his unemployed ass along with his wife and SIX (yes 6) children lived with his parents. They were STILL popping them out with no sign of slow down the last time I talked to him.

- He believes his wife should not be able to work and that all women should stay at home to raise children and do homeschooling (both of which I'm not too fond of).

- According to mormonism alcohol, caffeine, nicotine...hell any drug is evil and you will burn for eternity.

- Their "God" just came off too mean and hateful from what he explained.

- He was hypocritical in many ways. Just one of those high and mighty people do what I say not as I do. He would talk behind peoples backs, get into arguments...confrontational. I dislike people like that WHEN he poses as a religious almighty.

- He failed to acknowledge the original mormon branch that believed in polygamy. If you can't even follow the rules of your church then how are you going to tell me how to live?

- He failed to acknowledge when the mormons slaughtered countless people during their treck to claim Utah. Mountain Meadows Massacre? Oh shush..that didn't happen!

- Constantly bragged about missionaries to convert people. They would help villages in other countries so long as the people would convert. No thanks. My family has and does donate without strings attached the way it should be.

- He relied too much on his religion that was less than 200 years old.

1) ok I know many people that think swearing is Evil. Thats not just a Mormon trait.

2) Yes the MOrmon church stresses family structure. Now how is that bad again? No they do not say you need to have as many children as possible. If that retard had 6 children while on walfare then that is his problem. It was NOT the church telling him to do it. Oh also homeschooling is not forced either. EDUCATION is though.

3) Alchol, Caffiene, and nicotine has been proven to bad for the body. Part of the Mormon church is treating you body as a gift from god. So not putting anything in it that is bad is part of that. Even if you do not believe in a religion still some good advice to fallow.

4) hate to tell you. But the new testament God is mean and vengeful. ex: flood, plauges, wars etc.

5) again you find people like this in any religion. Fallow the teaching not the members.

6) The orginal branch did allow it. BUT they do not anymore. they have even de-frocked people that do it.

7) Ok so that happened. But shall we discredit the catholic church because of the Crusades?

8) They help other countries. They try to get them to convert. IT is not a requirment for getting aid. but they will push it as hard as they can.

9) well if time frame is a issue then we should forget all other religions but say buddaism etc. they are faw older then christanity.



I went to the mormon church for a few years. I agree with a LOT they teach but didnt care for the overall church. IT just does not feel like a church it is more like a business. I disagreed with the no alchohole since the bible says Jesus turned water into wine.

But for many people it is good for them. Same as others can do without it. Either way i dont see the point of bashing something that is there to help poeple live there lives.

A few corrections AFAIK:

1) agreed

2) agreed

3) many a tea is proven to be good for the body

4) That was the OLD testament (see Jews). The NEW testament emphasized God's sacrifice for us through the cross. How is that mean?

5) see #4.

6) explain.

7) agreed, both are questionable

8) their aid has a hidden motive; if you take out the motive, you take out the purpose for the aid. The purpose for aiding others should be limited to "loving one another", even one's "enemies"

9) Christianity has a longer history than Buddhism. It's a question of stability of its credibility.

That is all.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: i3rYs0n

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Pick a church based on its befielfs and teachings, not the personality of its congregation...

PSH, if people did that no one would go. My mom told me a while back that she goes to socialize with people that she enjoys being around.

Besides that, generally people that go to church are good/nice/friendly people.

Bryson

which is a decent reason to go i guess, its a social network. only problem is the inevitable donations end up funding bigoted sh*t too. well one example is mormons and gays. they don't like the gays... well thats putting it lightly religion would be a lot less dangerous if it weren't for the intolerance and hatred bit.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Reasons I don't like mormons. These come from a mormon I know/knew:

- He thought swearing was absolutely horrendous and evil. One word. At age 30 he would start SCREAMING in our class when someone dropped a word or two in a joke (AMONGST THEMSELVES no less..not even involving him). He would make it a point to be overly arsehole about it and come tell us or he would tell the lab instructors (LOL)

- He (and his religion) put too much emphasis on the family structure. He told me flat out they believe the only way to heaven is having many children. I about fell off my chair laughing. Him and his unemployed ass along with his wife and SIX (yes 6) children lived with his parents. They were STILL popping them out with no sign of slow down the last time I talked to him.

- He believes his wife should not be able to work and that all women should stay at home to raise children and do homeschooling (both of which I'm not too fond of).

- According to mormonism alcohol, caffeine, nicotine...hell any drug is evil and you will burn for eternity.

- Their "God" just came off too mean and hateful from what he explained.

- He was hypocritical in many ways. Just one of those high and mighty people do what I say not as I do. He would talk behind peoples backs, get into arguments...confrontational. I dislike people like that WHEN he poses as a religious almighty.

- He failed to acknowledge the original mormon branch that believed in polygamy. If you can't even follow the rules of your church then how are you going to tell me how to live?

- He failed to acknowledge when the mormons slaughtered countless people during their treck to claim Utah. Mountain Meadows Massacre? Oh shush..that didn't happen!

- Constantly bragged about missionaries to convert people. They would help villages in other countries so long as the people would convert. No thanks. My family has and does donate without strings attached the way it should be.

- He relied too much on his religion that was less than 200 years old.

1) ok I know many people that think swearing is Evil. Thats not just a Mormon trait.

2) Yes the MOrmon church stresses family structure. Now how is that bad again? No they do not say you need to have as many children as possible. If that retard had 6 children while on walfare then that is his problem. It was NOT the church telling him to do it. Oh also homeschooling is not forced either. EDUCATION is though.

3) Alchol, Caffiene, and nicotine has been proven to bad for the body. Part of the Mormon church is treating you body as a gift from god. So not putting anything in it that is bad is part of that. Even if you do not believe in a religion still some good advice to fallow.

4) hate to tell you. But the new testament God is mean and vengeful. ex: flood, plauges, wars etc.

5) again you find people like this in any religion. Fallow the teaching not the members.

6) The orginal branch did allow it. BUT they do not anymore. they have even de-frocked people that do it.

7) Ok so that happened. But shall we discredit the catholic church because of the Crusades?

8) They help other countries. They try to get them to convert. IT is not a requirment for getting aid. but they will push it as hard as they can.

9) well if time frame is a issue then we should forget all other religions but say buddaism etc. they are faw older then christanity.



I went to the mormon church for a few years. I agree with a LOT they teach but didnt care for the overall church. IT just does not feel like a church it is more like a business. I disagreed with the no alchohole since the bible says Jesus turned water into wine.

But for many people it is good for them. Same as others can do without it. Either way i dont see the point of bashing something that is there to help poeple live there lives.

A few corrections AFAIK:

1) agreed

2) agreed

3) many a tea is proven to be good for the body

4) That was the OLD testament (see Jews). The NEW testament emphasized God's sacrifice for us through the cross. How is that mean?

5) see #4.

6) explain.

7) agreed, both are questionable

8) their aid has a hidden motive; if you take out the motive, you take out the purpose for the aid. The purpose for aiding others should be limited to "loving one another", even one's "enemies"

9) Christianity has a longer history than Buddhism. It's a question of stability of its credibility.

That is all.

3) some tea contains caffiene. wich is considered bad for you. You can drink the herbal (natural tea) if you want. Its the pre-made boxed crap in the bags they say not to drink. BUt the good (expensive) stuff is actually fine.

4) Heh. Not just the Jewish fallow the Old Testament. So my point still stands. God is a vengenful and spitfull God even in most other churches.

6) When the church first started it was OK (in fact encuraged) to take more then one wife. The mormon church split off and one branch (very small sect) still says its ok. the other (one you see on TV and think about when her about the LDS church) says that it is not OK And if cought you will be kicked out of the church etc.

8) all churches do this. Its not just the Mormon church. Many who are willing to go over seas to such countries are there to save people. NOT just in the way of providing food/shelter/education. They are also are there to save there soul so yes they are going to push it. Again this is not just the Mormon church but all others.

9) christanity has a longer history then buddism? From
here states "The main breakthrough came when King Asoka (ca. 270-232 BCE) converted to Buddhism".
and here states 544 B.C and goes back even farther!

 

[AreaCode707]

<--- fundamental Christian

Mormons, in my opinion, tend to live out a lifestyle that most Christians would do well to emulate. That said, one of the major differences between their beliefs and mine is this:

Mormons believe that Jesus is A son of God, not THE son of God, and that we are sons and daughters in the same fashion that Jesus was.

That may not make much sense as a big difference from an outside perspective, but from a Christian perspective, the questions of salvation and eternal life are very much affected by the distinction.

 

[Philippine Mango]

I thought the parody of this thread was quite funny really.

 

[invalidiuser]

Why not join the 700 club that is on TV and pay 20 dollars a month to receive gods blessing.
I thought it was hilarious when I happen to land on that channel and they were telling how you can be blessed.
Send us 20 dollars a month and you will be blessed with good luck and prosper with richness.

LOL....full of balony.

Should watch it sometime. It is pretty funny.

The 700th club. Forgot what channel it was on though

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: HotChic
<--- fundamental Christian

Mormons, in my opinion, tend to live out a lifestyle that most Christians would do well to emulate. That said, one of the major differences between their beliefs and mine is this:

Mormons believe that Jesus is A son of God, not THE son of God, and that we are sons and daughters in the same fashion that Jesus was.

That may not make much sense as a big difference from an outside perspective, but from a Christian perspective, the questions of salvation and eternal life are very much affected by the distinction.

That is completely incorrect. Mormons, just like other Christians, believe that Christ is the only begotten son in the flesh, and that the rest of humanity are the spirtual children of God.

 

[Amdiggidy]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No caffiene + No booze + No gambling = No way Jose!!!

True, Mormons aren't supposed to drink alcohol or coffee, nor are they supposed to gamble, but no where in their religion does it state that they can't drink soda with caffeine in it or eat chocolate or whatever....that's just some hair-brained rumor that started in Utah...I have Mormon friends and they laugh every time they hear that one.....

 

[Amdiggidy]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Out of curiosity, there are 12 major denominations of Christians, not including the smaller churches -- why go with a non-Christian church?

you are implying that the church in question is "non-Christian" , that is false

The mormon church is not christian in the least.

Sigh... I thought this was settled.

Why don't I ask you a couple of questions?
First, what is the definition of the word "Christian"?
Second, who do you think will decide who is saved and who is damned? God... or you?

In the meantime, you might want to take that plank out of your eye. It is clouding your vision, I think.

In the Biblical (and even literal) sense of the word, Mormons are not Christians. Although this is by no means a definitive scholary explanation, it does correctly identify the differences as well as provide the necessary evidence.

Yah, sure. Mormons aren't Christians. That's why the biggest font sized words in the name of their church are "Jesus Christ." The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. That's really something....to put His name in the name of their church and still not believe in Him......Like another post stated....I thought this was settled too.....

The fact of the matter is this: You're going to hear all kinds of crap from people who AREN'T Mormons, and alot of positive from people who are. Why bash your own religion, right? Like alot of others have said, DECIDE FOR YOURSELF. If you're curious enough to consider the religion, educate yourself by attending their meetings, reading the Book of Mormon, and asking members what they believe in (of all people, they should know). Then pray to see if it feels right. Just like if you wanted to become a Baptist, Methodist, Buddhist, whatever, ....you would ask the actual people themselves, not people who hate those religions. The worst thing you can do is operate on the assumption that all the false statements you hear about the religion are true. EDUCATE yourself with the TRUTH. THEN decide if it is what you believe. Nuf said.

 

[Legendary]

Wow after reading most if not all of this thread I'm surprised at the level of discourse here in this one, particular, singular ATOT thread. Nice job everyone - I wonder what the OP has gotten from this?

 

[MBony]

YHPM

 

[zinkpig]

Originally posted by: Amdiggidy

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No caffiene + No booze + No gambling = No way Jose!!!

True, Mormons aren't supposed to drink alcohol or coffee, nor are they supposed to gamble, but no where in their religion does it state that they can't drink soda with caffeine in it or eat chocolate or whatever....that's just some hair-brained rumor that started in Utah...I have Mormon friends and they laugh every time they hear that one.....

i live in utah and have many mormon friends who woudnt drink coke or any other drink that has caffine added to it. Also BYU (all mormon Univ) doesnt permit sales of soda's containing caffeine..

 

[Amdiggidy]

Originally posted by: Legendary
Wow after reading most if not all of this thread I'm surprised at the level of discourse here in this one, particular, singular ATOT thread. Nice job everyone - I wonder what the OP has gotten from this?

I agree with Legendary. What has the OP gotten from this?

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Yax
So being a not so devoted christian, I haven't been going to church, but lately, I've been thinking about which church would be good and of all the church goers that I've met, I think the mormans have some of the nicest people. I'm thinking about giving that church a try.

I do have one question. Some people don't like mormons. I'm curious as to your reasons. Oh, please don't flame. If you're an athiest, then I already know your reason so you don't need to lecture me about how they're trying to push their beliefs onto you. I'm just interested in people who do go to church. What are some of the goods and bads?

Edit: corrected spelling

Worship the Lord not nice people. Visit many churches. I'm not going to say anything about the mormans though

 

[Rayden]

Originally posted by: Amdiggidy

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: RaDragon
Out of curiosity, there are 12 major denominations of Christians, not including the smaller churches -- why go with a non-Christian church?

you are implying that the church in question is "non-Christian" , that is false

The mormon church is not christian in the least.

Sigh... I thought this was settled.

Why don't I ask you a couple of questions?
First, what is the definition of the word "Christian"?
Second, who do you think will decide who is saved and who is damned? God... or you?

In the meantime, you might want to take that plank out of your eye. It is clouding your vision, I think.

In the Biblical (and even literal) sense of the word, Mormons are not Christians. Although this is by no means a definitive scholary explanation, it does correctly identify the differences as well as provide the necessary evidence.

Yah, sure. Mormons aren't Christians. That's why the biggest font sized words in the name of their church are "Jesus Christ." The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. That's really something....to put His name in the name of their church and still not believe in Him......Like another post stated....I thought this was settled too.....

The fact of the matter is this: You're going to hear all kinds of crap from people who AREN'T Mormons, and alot of positive from people who are. Why bash your own religion, right? Like alot of others have said, DECIDE FOR YOURSELF. If you're curious enough to consider the religion, educate yourself by attending their meetings, reading the Book of Mormon, and asking members what they believe in (of all people, they should know). Then pray to see if it feels right. Just like if you wanted to become a Baptist, Methodist, Buddhist, whatever, ....you would ask the actual people themselves, not people who hate those religions. The worst thing you can do is operate on the assumption that all the false statements you hear about the religion are true. EDUCATE yourself with the TRUTH. THEN decide if it is what you believe. Nuf said.

They can call themselves whatever they want, but they are not Christians. There are some fundamental beliefs, which I believe someone else has already gone over, that distinguish them. There are a few REQUIRED beliefs in order for something to be called Christian. The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints fails that checklist, in some extremely important ways.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: FlyLice
Covenant is between Man and God. The Church is within your heart.

The Bible also warns of false prophets. The definition of false prophet is one who contacts God through an angel (or not directly with God Himself?). True prophets have direct contact with God. I believe Mormon was started by a guy (forget his name, too lazy to look up) who was contacted by an angel. Mohammed (of Islam) was also contacted by an angel, not directly with God.

No, Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus (mormons believe them to be seperate)

edit: nm, this has already been established, and I'm in no mood for a lecture -- nor am I the best person to give it considering I've never been fully active nor have I studied it in depth.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: zinkpig

Originally posted by: Amdiggidy

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
No caffiene + No booze + No gambling = No way Jose!!!

True, Mormons aren't supposed to drink alcohol or coffee, nor are they supposed to gamble, but no where in their religion does it state that they can't drink soda with caffeine in it or eat chocolate or whatever....that's just some hair-brained rumor that started in Utah...I have Mormon friends and they laugh every time they hear that one.....

i live in utah and have many mormon friends who woudnt drink coke or any other drink that has caffine added to it. Also BYU (all mormon Univ) doesnt permit sales of soda's containing caffeine..

It's never been said that caffiene was the reason for not drinking it. I've looked into it and had discussions with a few bishops about it.

 

[TechnoKid]

Originally posted by: Beau



i live in utah and have many mormon friends who woudnt drink coke or any other drink that has caffine added to it. Also BYU (all mormon Univ) doesnt permit sales of soda's containing caffeine..

It's never been said that caffiene was the reason for not drinking it. I've looked into it and had discussions with a few bishops about it.[/quote]

From what I've gathered in the book of mormon, the actual text says something along the lines of that "...one shouldn't drink 'hot' beverages...." I guess "hot" refers to both alcohol and caffeine...?

 

[TallBill]

I'm going to skip reading the 200+ other posts and throw in a comment that I was deeply in love with a girl once and she was with me, but she had to break up with me because of the religion. Sounds like a real great group to be apart of... kick away anyone that doesn't believe what you do.

 

[SkyBum]

Why does religious debate always involve so much bullshit? (or religion for that matter...)