Scion TC...do people who own them think they are fast?

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
Your edit states that fwd has less drivetrain power loss than what? rwd? if that is true, pass the weed man...

also you never mentioned that you were not right in stating that fwd is best for straight lines.

I figured that my statement would imply that drivetrain doesn't matter once you get moving. I mean, the power it allows you to put down matters, but where the power comes from in itself if all else is equal doesn't. (all else equal implies they have the same drivetrain loss, weight, aerodynamics, anything you can think of)

Anyway, it seems the statement about drivetrain loss was covered above. I was a bit irritated with your post how you said everything I said was wrong an appaulling, but I put that aside. I had wrong reasoning and I learned that, and so in the end, that's what matters IMO.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: JackBurton
The opposite sh!t happened to me. There was this tricked out NEON (yeah you heard me, a Dodge Neon) driving down the freeway and he was trying to race me in my Camaro. Now my Camaro ain't anything big, but God damn, I thought I could at least take a Neon. I thought to myself, this guy is all show no go. I mean, how much horsepower can you get out of that little 4 cylinder? Well at about 60 I punch it, and freakin' flames come out of his tailpipe and he takes off like I was standing still. I was like, WTF?!!! One of the craziest things I've ever seen.

Did you happen to see a badge that said "SRT4" on that Neon?

Scion tC should be tS, for tehSlowness. My Civic beats up on them.

- M4H

Ok, I've seen SRT4s, and this was waaaay past an SRT4. The thing was waaay tricked out (actually overly tricked out with all kinds of sh!t coming off the car). I'm telling you, I REALLY thought it was all show no go. But God damn, I couldn't have been further from the truth. FREAKIN' FIRE COMING OUT OF THE TAILPIPES FOR GOD'S SAKE!! When I get my 350z, I've got to do that mod. That was great!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
lol@ trying to race anything with a maxima.

OMG I am so confused...has ATOT really gotten this stupid or do they just have an automatic read half the post and bash mode.

He was racing something with a lot less horsepower and it was the other person that wanted to go.

I am a strong advocate against amateurs street racing (100mph+) it gets people killed. I am also a strong advocate against people who thing their v6 econoboxes are sporty. I also hate rice with a passsion. There was nothing wrong with this.

Man I wish we had user ratings and not just thread ratings.

I read the whole post, I fully know a scion is quite a bit slower than a maxima. What's your point?

Feeling superior in a Maxima against a Scion is like a turtle feeling good against a snail, or a highschool dropout feeling good against the mentally challenged.

Hey, it wasn't me who started this race. I finished it though even though I was reasonably sure there was no way in hell he could beat me.

BTW-For those of you saying the Maxima is slow I might suggest you drive one. It's a fairly quick car for a medium size 4 door family sedan...although, stock, it handles like sh!t and the brakes suck ass. I'll keep mine for most daily driving after I buy my Lotus Elise.

 

[Skotty]

If you were driving in the 80's, then you would think that pretty much all cars are fast these days. My somewhat heavy 81 Mustang had an 88HP 2.3L 4-cyl. Back then (in 1981) the top end Mustang engine was a 120HP 4.2L V8. In 82, they brought back the muscle car 5.0 V8, with 157 horsepower, just short of what a modern Scion tC has. Though the V8 probably had more torque. Still, I bet a new Scion tC could take an 82 5.0 V8 Mustang. From that same era, consider the 78-85 Lamborghini Countach LP400S and LP500S -- supercars in the day -- they only had between 350 and 375 horsepower and a 0-60 times of over 5.5 seconds.

Power levels these days are crazy. Family cars are getting muscle car engines, muscle cars are getting supercar engines, and supercars have gone totally insane.

The point? If you have a new or almost new car, even if it's a cheap turd of a new car, viewed over the last few decades you've got some power. A Scion tC isn't slow by my book, it's just that so many other new cars are faster.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: JackBurton
The opposite sh!t happened to me. There was this tricked out NEON (yeah you heard me, a Dodge Neon) driving down the freeway and he was trying to race me in my Camaro. Now my Camaro ain't anything big, but God damn, I thought I could at least take a Neon. I thought to myself, this guy is all show no go. I mean, how much horsepower can you get out of that little 4 cylinder? Well at about 60 I punch it, and freakin' flames come out of his tailpipe and he takes off like I was standing still. I was like, WTF?!!! One of the craziest things I've ever seen.

Did you happen to see a badge that said "SRT4" on that Neon?

Scion tC should be tS, for tehSlowness. My Civic beats up on them.

- M4H

:laugh:

Shoot my 24V V6 Taurus-heavy-as-a-fvckin-whale could take that Scion down...

 

[Regs]

My mazda 6s 07' is a rice burner killa biotch.

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: Yreka
I saw one of these things trying to race a Corvette on the freeway not too long ago.. It was pretty comical.

lmao, now that's really sad.

 

[Regs]

They look like refrigerators on wheels.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: Regs
My mazda 6s 07' is a rice burner killa biotch.

Your Mazda is, by most definitions, a rice burner...

As for the tC, the people who try to race in them are dumb but its a good enough car for the price, and it's the closest thing to "sporty" you'll find on a Toyota lot -- provided it isn't attached to a Lexus dealer (V6 Camry and all the Avalons are faster, but I wouldn't exactly call them "sporty" as far as handling and styling).

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: zeruty

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Gotcha, it does have a good bit of power, I was just looking into it a little deeper. I've seen some of these "ricer" cars beat a lot of cars... especially the V6 Mustangs, slap an automatic on them and you're sure to lose with the V6 Stang. Issue is that the ricer car probably has shorter gearing, weigh's a ton less, is FWD, etc. and those things are enough to make it win.

Ok... different gearing, and weighing less... those I understand... but how the hell would fwd be an advantage while racing?
Maybe fwd is better for people who don't know how to drive... but rwd and awd are better for driving fast if you know what you are doing...

When you accelerate, where does the weight shift to? To the back, right? This means that in a straight line, FWD would be best, less friction.

You then have issues of launching the car, because there won't be as much weight there, it means that it's easier to get wheel spin. Well, with a Scion tC, I don't think that's going to be much of an issue unless the driver tries to do a burnout.

There are videos showing a 200-230HP civic beat an Evo. It has weight and the fact that it's FWD on its side.

Yeah, FWD is stupid when trying to do anything besides this, but I'm just pointing out what made a difference in this situation.

Edit: Just thinking about what I said... why does it matter where the weight shifts? The total friction and energy required to move the car is what matters. This means that the only advantage FWD might have is less drivetrain power loss. I'm an idiot for not thinking about this sooner.

LOL dude, the amount of misinformation in your post is appalling, I don't even know where to start.

+1

I thought about trying, but my brain asploded.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: mariok2006
Your edit states that fwd has less drivetrain power loss than what? rwd? if that is true, pass the weed man...

also you never mentioned that you were not right in stating that fwd is best for straight lines.

I figured that my statement would imply that drivetrain doesn't matter once you get moving. I mean, the power it allows you to put down matters, but where the power comes from in itself if all else is equal doesn't. (all else equal implies they have the same drivetrain loss, weight, aerodynamics, anything you can think of)

Anyway, it seems the statement about drivetrain loss was covered above. I was a bit irritated with your post how you said everything I said was wrong an appaulling, but I put that aside. I had wrong reasoning and I learned that, and so in the end, that's what matters IMO.

It' doesn't? My Cobra keeps the front end up through all 6 gears. I doubt it would be doing that with FWD...

And have you ever seen a high performance FWD car? They run fat tires up front for traction, ie: you WANT the most friction possible. Most likely tall stiff springs in the rear and short loose springs in the front to combat the natural weight transfer to the rear, a disadvantage for FWD.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: Regs
My mazda 6s 07' is a rice burner killa biotch.

Your Mazda is, by most definitions, a rice burner...

As for the tC, the people who try to race in them are dumb but its a good enough car for the price, and it's the closest thing to "sporty" you'll find on a Toyota lot -- provided it isn't attached to a Lexus dealer (V6 Camry and all the Avalons are faster, but I wouldn't exactly call them "sporty" as far as handling and styling).

Wow you're calling a mazda 6 a rice burner. Talk about a major misunderstanding of the term.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: Skotty
If you were driving in the 80's, then you would think that pretty much all cars are fast these days. My somewhat heavy 81 Mustang had an 88HP 2.3L 4-cyl. Back then (in 1981) the top end Mustang engine was a 120HP 4.2L V8. In 82, they brought back the muscle car 5.0 V8, with 157 horsepower, just short of what a modern Scion tC has. Though the V8 probably had more torque. Still, I bet a new Scion tC could take an 82 5.0 V8 Mustang. From that same era, consider the 78-85 Lamborghini Countach LP400S and LP500S -- supercars in the day -- they only had between 350 and 375 horsepower and a 0-60 times of over 5.5 seconds.

Power levels these days are crazy. Family cars are getting muscle car engines, muscle cars are getting supercar engines, and supercars have gone totally insane.

The point? If you have a new or almost new car, even if it's a cheap turd of a new car, viewed over the last few decades you've got some power. A Scion tC isn't slow by my book, it's just that so many other new cars are faster.

QFT - my daily driver is a 1992 Buick Park Avenue...it's got a gas-sucking 3.8L V6 that put out 170HP/205 lb-ft when it was new - who knows what it gets now at 188,000 miles. Pushing around ~3600 pounds, I'd be lucky to do 0-60 in 10 seconds, and I get about 16-19 MPG around town.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Imdmn04

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
lol@ trying to race anything with a maxima.

OMG I am so confused...has ATOT really gotten this stupid or do they just have an automatic read half the post and bash mode.

He was racing something with a lot less horsepower and it was the other person that wanted to go.

I am a strong advocate against amateurs street racing (100mph+) it gets people killed. I am also a strong advocate against people who thing their v6 econoboxes are sporty. I also hate rice with a passsion. There was nothing wrong with this.

Man I wish we had user ratings and not just thread ratings.

I read the whole post, I fully know a scion is quite a bit slower than a maxima. What's your point?

Feeling superior in a Maxima against a Scion is like a turtle feeling good against a snail, or a highschool dropout feeling good against the mentally challenged.

Hey, it wasn't me who started this race. I finished it though even though I was reasonably sure there was no way in hell he could beat me.

BTW-For those of you saying the Maxima is slow I might suggest you drive one. It's a fairly quick car for a medium size 4 door family sedan...although, stock, it handles like sh!t and the brakes suck ass. I'll keep mine for most daily driving after I buy my Lotus Elise.

Yeah I think that is what people are completely overlooking: that fact that a Maxima is NOT a high performance sporty car, yet you blew his doors off. Thats what makes it funny!

These new 3.5L V6s are amazing though. We've got a 06 Avalon with the 3.5L 2GR-FE V6 that puts out something like 280 HP and 260 FT-LB and while it doesn't put you in the seat the way my 03 KB Cobra does, it still smokes 95% of everything else out there. The fact that its a 'desert gold' 4 door 'old people' car just makes it that much more hilarious when some kid in an Acura tries it.

TRD has a bolt on full warranty roots supercharger for the same 2GR-FE for the 'Aurion' in Australia that takes that engine to 350 HP... Now THATS funny.

And yeah, I love people who deliberately change lanes at a red light to get in the ending lane of a merge when they can clearly see the merge sign ahead, and start revving, inching forward, etc. That sh1t doesn't fly with me either.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: NaOH

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: Regs
My mazda 6s 07' is a rice burner killa biotch.

Your Mazda is, by most definitions, a rice burner...

As for the tC, the people who try to race in them are dumb but its a good enough car for the price, and it's the closest thing to "sporty" you'll find on a Toyota lot -- provided it isn't attached to a Lexus dealer (V6 Camry and all the Avalons are faster, but I wouldn't exactly call them "sporty" as far as handling and styling).

Wow you're calling a mazda 6 a rice burner. Talk about a major misunderstanding of the term.

"Rice burner" = Any Asian car, usually meant in a derogatory way.

"Rice" or "Ricer" = Dumbass with a bunch of stickers, a huge wing, a slow car, and a huge ego. These terms can also apply to any car that has been horribly disfigured by its owner, regardless of place of origin.

I have nothing against the Mazda, I was just pointing out an odd turn of phrase.

 

[Aimster]

I raced one in my X5 and beat it
LOL

I have the slow X5 too.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: NaOH

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: Regs
My mazda 6s 07' is a rice burner killa biotch.

Your Mazda is, by most definitions, a rice burner...

As for the tC, the people who try to race in them are dumb but its a good enough car for the price, and it's the closest thing to "sporty" you'll find on a Toyota lot -- provided it isn't attached to a Lexus dealer (V6 Camry and all the Avalons are faster, but I wouldn't exactly call them "sporty" as far as handling and styling).

Wow you're calling a mazda 6 a rice burner. Talk about a major misunderstanding of the term.

"Rice burner" = Any Asian car, usually meant in a derogatory way.

"Rice" or "Ricer" = Dumbass with a bunch of stickers, a huge wing, a slow car, and a huge ego. These terms can also apply to any car that has been horribly disfigured by its owner, regardless of place of origin.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Skotty
If you were driving in the 80's, then you would think that pretty much all cars are fast these days. My somewhat heavy 81 Mustang had an 88HP 2.3L 4-cyl. Back then (in 1981) the top end Mustang engine was a 120HP 4.2L V8. In 82, they brought back the muscle car 5.0 V8, with 157 horsepower, just short of what a modern Scion tC has. Though the V8 probably had more torque. Still, I bet a new Scion tC could take an 82 5.0 V8 Mustang. From that same era, consider the 78-85 Lamborghini Countach LP400S and LP500S -- supercars in the day -- they only had between 350 and 375 horsepower and a 0-60 times of over 5.5 seconds.

Power levels these days are crazy. Family cars are getting muscle car engines, muscle cars are getting supercar engines, and supercars have gone totally insane.

The point? If you have a new or almost new car, even if it's a cheap turd of a new car, viewed over the last few decades you've got some power. A Scion tC isn't slow by my book, it's just that so many other new cars are faster.

The difference is that a 4 cyl making 150 HP is well tuned and operating at the peak of its ability while the 8 cyl that is making 150 HP is running on a crappy factory tune with restrictive intake, exhaust, etc. and is being underutilized.

I doubt someone with a Scion can spend a few hundred bucks and get 300+ HP out of it like you can with a 302 V8. Mod per mod, pound of boost per pound of boost, octane per octane, displacement wins, always.

A 5.0L V8 from the factory with only 157 HP isn't a engineering problem, its a PR problem.

But otherwise, yeah, horsepower is cheap and abundant these days. Which just makes ricers thinking they are badass with 75 HP all the more hilarious seeing as how they could have just bought a 250+ HP car for what they paid for their wing, body kit, and exhaust tip.

 

[Regs]

Hah. People forgot Mazda got baught out by Ford 2 years ago.

My Mazda actually has a Durtec 3.0L V6 engine it made by ford. Sadly though it's not like the electronic controlled v6's found in Honda's or Acuras which get 245 horse out of 3.0L. Stock my mazda is 212 bhp with 200 ft. lbs of toque. Still a swift car and its a little lighter then its competition.

Then you have to take into account the power band, the transmission, and the suspension and wheels. What's the point getting 245 horse to the flywheel when you're only getting 200 to the tires?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: mariok2006
Your edit states that fwd has less drivetrain power loss than what? rwd? if that is true, pass the weed man...

also you never mentioned that you were not right in stating that fwd is best for straight lines.

I figured that my statement would imply that drivetrain doesn't matter once you get moving. I mean, the power it allows you to put down matters, but where the power comes from in itself if all else is equal doesn't. (all else equal implies they have the same drivetrain loss, weight, aerodynamics, anything you can think of)

Anyway, it seems the statement about drivetrain loss was covered above. I was a bit irritated with your post how you said everything I said was wrong an appaulling, but I put that aside. I had wrong reasoning and I learned that, and so in the end, that's what matters IMO.

It' doesn't? My Cobra keeps the front end up through all 6 gears. I doubt it would be doing that with FWD...

And have you ever seen a high performance FWD car? They run fat tires up front for traction, ie: you WANT the most friction possible. Most likely tall stiff springs in the rear and short loose springs in the front to combat the natural weight transfer to the rear, a disadvantage for FWD.

Sheesh, AT is hostile! I thought I made it clear that what I was describing was talking about simply this situation and nothing else? I said "for cars at this level" or something like that, right?

With basic FWD cars, the stock suspension is pretty basic... heh. It doesn't take anything to keep the front end up lol

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo

Originally posted by: zeruty

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
Gotcha, it does have a good bit of power, I was just looking into it a little deeper. I've seen some of these "ricer" cars beat a lot of cars... especially the V6 Mustangs, slap an automatic on them and you're sure to lose with the V6 Stang. Issue is that the ricer car probably has shorter gearing, weigh's a ton less, is FWD, etc. and those things are enough to make it win.

Ok... different gearing, and weighing less... those I understand... but how the hell would fwd be an advantage while racing?
Maybe fwd is better for people who don't know how to drive... but rwd and awd are better for driving fast if you know what you are doing...

When you accelerate, where does the weight shift to? To the back, right? This means that in a straight line, FWD would be best, less friction.

You then have issues of launching the car, because there won't be as much weight there, it means that it's easier to get wheel spin. Well, with a Scion tC, I don't think that's going to be much of an issue unless the driver tries to do a burnout.

There are videos showing a 200-230HP civic beat an Evo. It has weight and the fact that it's FWD on its side.

Yeah, FWD is stupid when trying to do anything besides this, but I'm just pointing out what made a difference in this situation.

Edit: Just thinking about what I said... why does it matter where the weight shifts? The total friction and energy required to move the car is what matters. This means that the only advantage FWD might have is less drivetrain power loss. I'm an idiot for not thinking about this sooner.

LOL dude, the amount of misinformation in your post is appalling, I don't even know where to start.

+1

I thought about trying, but my brain asploded.

Did you read the edit or any other posts in this thread at all?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: NaOH
PS. Upgrades were to make it more fun to handle and ride in. And no, I don't have any VTEEEEEEC stickers.

I saw a Civic with a "Powered by Honda" sticker. I thought to myself, "No sh!t, what else is it going to be powered by... Toyota?"

Originally posted by: Imdmn04
lol@ trying to race anything with a maxima.

My Altima isn't godly fast (If I wanted fast for a similar price, I probably would've hit up a Z or a STi), but I wanted comfort with moderate speed .

Originally posted by: RKS
without getting into a discussion about racing. You do realize it the the same VQ that is used in the 350Z and older G35? Granted you have drivetrain and other minor engine/exhaust differences but the engine is basically the same.

Current 350Z uses the VQ35HR actually.

Oddly enough, Wikipedia says the Altima has a VQ35DE from 2002 on, but then it says 2007 has a VQ35HR. Weird, must be a typo since I believe the Altima uses the VQ35DE.

Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, I've seen SRT4s, and this was waaaay past an SRT4. The thing was waaay tricked out (actually overly tricked out with all kinds of sh!t coming off the car). I'm telling you, I REALLY thought it was all show no go. But God damn, I couldn't have been further from the truth. FREAKIN' FIRE COMING OUT OF THE TAILPIPES FOR GOD'S SAKE!! When I get my 350z, I've got to do that mod. That was great!

Isn't that just extra gas igniting in the exhaust?

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
BTW-For those of you saying the Maxima is slow I might suggest you drive one. It's a fairly quick car for a medium size 4 door family sedan...although, stock, it handles like sh!t and the brakes suck ass. I'll keep mine for most daily driving after I buy my Lotus Elise.

A lot of Nissan's earlier FWDs suffered from bad torque steer because of them engines . They finally got it right and my Altima has no issues with that.

Originally posted by: Regs
Hah. People forgot Mazda got baught out by Ford 2 years ago.

Ford owns 33.9% of Mazda.

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Regs
Hah. People forgot Mazda got baught out by Ford 2 years ago.

My Mazda actually has a Durtec 3.0L V6 engine it made by ford. Sadly though it's not like the electronic controlled v6's found in Honda's or Acuras which get 245 horse out of 3.0L. Stock my mazda is 212 bhp with 200 ft. lbs of toque. Still a swift car and its a little lighter then its competition.

Then you have to take into account the power band, the transmission, and the suspension and wheels. What's the point getting 245 horse to the flywheel when you're only getting 200 to the tires?

Ford has had a stake in Mazda for years now. They've slowly climbed up to just over a 1/3 ownership stock wise (that was late 90's I believe, or early 2000). What in the world are you talking about?

And the 6 is nice, but that V6 is only useful in stick. My mom's is automatic... and it is nice, but it still feels sluggish to get going. Sadlly, I think Mazda is going to make the 6 bigger for the American market.

Then again, I might be a bit biased from being able to sit in a viper and feel that massive torque monster, heh.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
BTW-For those of you saying the Maxima is slow I might suggest you drive one. It's a fairly quick car for a medium size 4 door family sedan...although, stock, it handles like sh!t and the brakes suck ass. I'll keep mine for most daily driving after I buy my Lotus Elise.

A lot of Nissan's earlier FWDs suffered from bad torque steer because of them engines . They finally got it right and my Altima has no issues with that.

Torque steer isn't the reason my car handles poorly. The suspension is the reason it handles poorly...mainly the rear suspension. I'd probably upgrade it if I thought it would be worth it...but it isn't.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: NaOH
PS. Upgrades were to make it more fun to handle and ride in. And no, I don't have any VTEEEEEEC stickers.

I saw a Civic with a "Powered by Honda" sticker. I thought to myself, "No sh!t, what else is it going to be powered by... Toyota?"

You never know... there are guys stuffing the Toyota 2JZ-GTE into Honda S2000s...