Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,348
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Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
Somebody upthread mentioned gauge and I think I remember hearing a long time back that they made their rail system to a unique, non standard gauge. If that's true, they can't just buy, beg, borrow or steal rail cars and locomotives from anywhere else.
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yes, exactly. when transiting from Russian rail networks--even a lot of the former soviet-occupied countries, like the Baltics, are stuck with horseshit, narrower Soviet tracks--you have to switch trains and tracks at stations. Russian trains can't transit into the west, and I'm not sure if this is completely true in the east and south, but I think it is.

This is a wonderful thing, though, because it vastly limits their ongoing ability to keep things going.
 
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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,143
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cytg111 said:
Well as astate sponsor of terror and Wagner being Wagner, I am sure there is some legal wiggle room to navigate... Put bounties on their individual heads?
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Ultimately the problem isn't killing members of Wagner; it is that Wagner is invited into Venezuela and USA is not; now we could argue the current govt is not legit but that would be a weak argument under the current situation. After all by that same argument Russia could argue the US elections were not legit and therefore the current govt is not legit. Having said that the situation is not exactly apple to apple as what happened in Venezuela is similar to Belarus but we (USA) do not actually have proof of that the elections were tainted just that we feel it is likely.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,348
30,388
146
you2 said:
Ultimately the problem isn't killing members of Wagner; it is that Wagner is invited into Venezuela and USA is not; now we could argue the current govt is not legit but that would be a weak argument under the current situation. After all by that same argument Russia could argue the US elections were not legit and therefore the current govt is not legit. Having said that the situation is not exactly apple to apple as what happened in Venezuela is similar to Belarus but we (USA) do not actually have proof of that the elections were tainted just that we feel it is likely.
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Russia is more than welcome to declare the US elections illegitimate and act as they see fit. I don't think it would end well for them, however
 
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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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zinfamous said:
Russia is more than welcome to declare the US elections illegitimate and act as they see fit. I don't think it would end well for them, however
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There is that aspect but we could apply the same thing to a lot of other questions; the point isn't if Russia (or any foreign actor) is strong enough to do something but rather the legal ramifications.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,482
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you2 said:
There is that aspect but we could apply the same thing to a lot of other questions; the point isn't if Russia (or any foreign actor) is strong enough to do something but rather the legal ramifications.
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There are no legal ramifications because the only enforcement mechanisms in international law are voluntary compliance (think WTO) or military action (lol).
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lifer
Nov 17, 2019
12,868
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Ummmm, OK.


Putin calls for a project to promote 'traditional Russian values' overseas​

abcnews.go.com.ico
ABC|1 hour ago
Russian President Vladimir Putin is calling for the government to develop a program for overseas promotion of "traditional Russian spiritual and moral values."
 
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Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
25,860
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zinfamous said:
yes, exactly. when transiting from Russian rail networks--even a lot of the former soviet-occupied countries, like the Baltics, are stuck with horseshit, narrower Soviet tracks--you have to switch trains and tracks at stations. Russian trains can't transit into the west, and I'm not sure if this is completely true in the east and south, but I think it is.

This is a wonderful thing, though, because it vastly limits their ongoing ability to keep things going.
Click to expand...
You can lay dual gauge tracks, but that has some limitations on its own (like if you have platforms and different maximum allowed car widths), and obviously needs an additional rail laid down.
 
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igor_kavinski

Lifer
Jul 27, 2020
21,537
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Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
Russian President Vladimir Putin is calling for the government to develop a program for overseas promotion of "traditional Russian spiritual and moral values."
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The world very well knows what their values are by now. Attacking peaceful countries and turning them into wastelands. Raping and pillaging. Zero regard for human life, including that of women, children and elderly.
 
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K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Brainonska511 said:
You can lay dual gauge tracks, but that has some limitations on its own (like if you have platforms and different maximum allowed car widths), and obviously needs an additional rail laid down.
Click to expand...

Ukraine's issue is that the country is vast and switching to standard gauge or even adding dual gauge to much of it is going to be horrifically expensive. Variable gauge cars plus limited standard gauge extensions into the west of the country (especially Lviv) likely to be the short and medium term goals.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
25,860
9,270
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K1052 said:
Ukraine's issue is that the country is vast and switching to standard gauge or even adding dual gauge to much of it is going to be horrifically expensive. Variable gauge cars plus limited standard gauge extensions into the west of the country (especially Lviv) likely to be the short and medium term goals.
Click to expand...
Long term, Ukraine may look to adopt more trackage with western gauging, as an additional bulwark against Russian incursion. Russia wouldn't be able to easily utilize Ukrainian railroads if such a move was adopted in the long run.
 
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uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
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Brainonska511 said:
You can lay dual gauge tracks, but that has some limitations on its own (like if you have platforms and different maximum allowed car widths), and obviously needs an additional rail laid down.
Click to expand...
Aren't the turning radii different with different gauges also? Might be an issue in hilly/mountainous areas.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,300
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Brainonska511 said:
Long term, Ukraine may look to adopt more trackage with western gauging, as an additional bulwark against Russian incursion. Russia wouldn't be able to easily utilize Ukrainian railroads if such a move was adopted in the long run.
Click to expand...

Unless there is a giant pot of forthcoming money coming from the EU even in the long term it's a massive undertaking for them. I'd probably do what the Finns do and design/modify all major rail and road infrastructure to be mined and blown in the face of an attack.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,334
8,365
136
Lest we forget, the war is still hot, and Russians are still claiming land meter by meter. At the cost of roughly 1,000 Russians per day.
Will this land ever be freed and reclaimed, or has the Iron Curtain forever fallen on it?

ISW: Russian forces have recently made significant tactical advances in the Toretsk direction.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1820618505806385162
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
29,439
41,887
136
Yeah, the world saw those Russian values promoted in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine. Pass.

No one is interested apart from poor global south backwaters who just want the cheap Russian weapons no else will buy now.

Russia, a shadow of it's former self, with a bad joke for a military, crumbling infrastructure and impending demographic collapse, wants others to recognize the clout of having a defense agreement with *checks notes* ... Niger. So, yeah.
 
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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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kage69 said:
Yeah, the world saw those Russian values promoted in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine. Pass.

No one is interested apart from poor global south backwaters who just want the cheap Russian weapons no else will buy now.

Russia, a shadow of it's former self, with a bad joke for a military, crumbling infrastructure and impending demographic collapse, wants others to recognize the clout of having a defense agreement with *checks notes* ... Niger. So, yeah.
Click to expand...
You don't really understand; Putin wants to promote them by invading and forcing them upon the native population.
 
Brainonska511

Brainonska511

Lifer
Dec 10, 2005
25,860
9,270
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uclaLabrat said:
Aren't the turning radii different with different gauges also? Might be an issue in hilly/mountainous areas.
Click to expand...
Maybe a little, but I don't think it would be that substantial. We're not talking about huge differences - it looks like maybe half a meter difference in total rail car width. But you're right that there would potentially be a problem. I think it would be more in areas with tight passing tolerances, such as high level platforms, tunnels, or parallel tracks that could be too close if wider cars were forced into a right of way built with narrower cars in mind.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
29,439
41,887
136
you2 said:
You don't really understand; Putin wants to promote them by invading and forcing them upon the native population.
Click to expand...

Oh no I understand, it's just that if you can't even handle the poorest country in Europe, a really flat one right on your border to boot, fighting well funded armies with air forces and navies just isn't in your future.

Russia is going to be lucky to be in one piece in ten years. Taking on NATO on NATO's turf? Only in the vodka fueled fantasies of people like Medvedev and Solovyov. Putin is more clear eyed about it, I've posted video of himself scoffing at the idea of attacking America/NATO previously in this thread.

Russia's love of torture, rape, and targeting civilians is certainly being promoted at least.
 
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