Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,209
5,099
126
Just searched and am surprised there is no thread on this here, at least on the first 2 pages.

It's been on the news for at least a couple weeks, probably more like a month. 100,000+ Russian troops amassing at the border between Russia and Ukraine, heavy equipment, more and more moving to the border, more troops all the time. "Exercises," some evident overt hostilities, all this diplomacy going on, negotiations, virtual meetings between Biden and Putin. Heard on the news tonight that a bi-partisan team of US senators have met with Ukrainian officials to assure them of US backing.

Putin insisting he won't back down his threat without guarantees that Ukraine won't become a member of NATO. Biden (and I'm sure others) saying that's not an acceptable bargaining chip. USA saying that unprecedentedly harsh sanctions (what could those be???) will be enforced against Russia if they do invade Ukraine.

Much talk on the news that Russia is planning to instigate events to be used as an excuse for invasion, in stages of developing those presently.

My thoughts the last few weeks is that deploying 100,000 troops and considerable equipment, i.e. setting the stage for an invasion, isn't something they've done for the hell of it or to insure they have capabilities. Seems to me they are preparing to invade and that it's going to happen in a matter of days or weeks.

What sanctions could the US impose? Would travel between the countries be restricted?

I don't know the extent of trade between the USA and Russia, it's not something that's obvious, at least not to me. I suppose you can buy Russian vodka in the store, but it's NOTHING like the proliferation of Chinese goods in America.

What are your thoughts concerning these matters?
 
Last edited:

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Was Ukraine not always part of USSR until it feel down and broke apart? What business does US have when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. Honestly this is not US fight and we should just stay out of it. If Europe got a problem with what Russia about to do, let them deal with it themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cytg111

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,209
5,099
126
Was Ukraine not always part of USSR until it feel down and broke apart? What business does US have when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. Honestly this is not US fight and we should just stay out of it. If Europe got a problem with what Russia about to do, let them deal with it themselves.
The reactionary attitude of 100+ years ago. Didn't work before WW I, didn't work before WW II. Won't work today unless you want the US to become a 3rd rate power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pohemi420

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
The reactionary attitude of 100+ years ago. Didn't work before WW I, didn't work before WW II. Won't work today unless you want the US to become a 3rd rate power.
I am tired seeing everyone expecting US to be world police. This is really Europe problem, it's in their back yard, they should deal with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thunder 57

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,209
5,099
126
I am tired seeing everyone expecting US to be world police. This is really Europe problem, it's in their back yard, they should deal with it.
Well, you're right but that's different from isolationism, which is what I perceived in your first post.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
19,029
2,597
126
Whatever happens Europe should take the lead in this fiasco and we should support them with extreme sanctions.

How will Germany pan out since they have their pipeline from Russia? Hmmmm
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Whatever happens Europe should take the lead in this fiasco and we should support them with extreme sanctions.

How will Germany pan out since they have their pipeline from Russia? Hmmmm
The issue is Europe do not appear to want to take the lead. I have yet to read any statement from Europe that they will be imposing massive sanctions on Russia. That they will stop buying their natural gas etc. The only statement i am reading is from US. It appears that the only country that is negotiating with Russia on Ukraine crisis is again US. Why is Europe not at the diplomatic table talking to Russia?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,596
29,685
136
I don’t think the US should become militarily involved in Ukraine if Russia invades but we should undertake further sanctions against Russia and I think we should look to move forward with additional asset seizures of Putin’s and his inner circle. That’s what they really care about anyway.
 

gothuevos

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2010
1,017
700
136
Was Ukraine not always part of USSR until it feel down and broke apart? What business does US have when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. Honestly this is not US fight and we should just stay out of it. If Europe got a problem with what Russia about to do, let them deal with it themselves.
Yet I'm sure you'll be back here the day after Ukraine is invaded to tell us that it was "Biden's weakness" that emboldened Russia.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Yet I'm sure you'll be back here the day after Ukraine is invaded to tell us that it was "Biden's weakness" that emboldened Russia.
Absolutely not. With an exception of sanctions which Biden should impose after Europe does and not before, I do not support any action that Biden should take in support of Ukraine. This is really Europe fight, they need to deal with it. This is not US fight.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,998
4,476
126
Was Ukraine not always part of USSR until it feel down and broke apart? What business does US have when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. Honestly this is not US fight and we should just stay out of it. If Europe got a problem with what Russia about to do, let them deal with it themselves.
The invasion, slaughter, and subjugation of a people by another is unacceptable.
If Europe is facing an attack from Russia, the entire world must answer the call.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
I don’t think the US should become militarily involved in Ukraine if Russia invades but we should undertake further sanctions against Russia and I think we should look to move forward with additional asset seizures of Putin’s and his inner circle. That’s what they really care about anyway.
I have colleagues that are Russians and according to them, Puting don't give a crap about US sanctions. Yes it will impact him but it mainly will impact the Russian people which honestly he don't give a crap about. Putin got property on other people names such as family members that US is highly unlikely to touch. According to them, Putin wants Ukraine for two reason and it's a) he wants much more territory between NATO and Russia. Putin is afraid that Ukraine will eventually join NATO and it will be put American forces on Russia doorstep. 2nd reason he wants Ukrain is he wants to get a much territory back as possible that USSR had. Belarus likely soon to join Russia as well.
 
Last edited:

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
The invasion, slaughter, and subjugation of a people by another is unacceptable.
If Europe is facing an attack from Russia, the entire world must answer the call.
Russia is not going to attack Europe outside of Ukraine. Same as US is not going to attack Russia. If there is any war with Russia, say hello to WW3 and end of the world.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
58,722
6,909
126
Was Ukraine not always part of USSR until it feel down and broke apart? What business does US have when it comes to Ukraine and Russia. Honestly this is not US fight and we should just stay out of it. If Europe got a problem with what Russia about to do, let them deal with it themselves.
I agree. This is not a US problem.

The reactionary attitude of 100+ years ago. Didn't work before WW I, didn't work before WW II. Won't work today unless you want the US to become a 3rd rate power.
You're right, but there is NO reason for the US to get involved. Have we learned nothing from sticking our noses in other countries' squabbles?

I am tired seeing everyone expecting US to be world police. This is really Europe problem, it's in their back yard, they should deal with it.
Exactly. Our military should ONLY be used to defend our shores and borders...not be the Police Force of the World.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,556
911
126
Clearly some people don't understand why NATO exists or which country is the dominant leader of the alliance. Obviously Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, so the U.S. has no intentions of putting any boots on the ground. Nevertheless, imposing new sanctions after a Russian invasion would be a disaster. You'd never be able to undo a Russian annexation of Ukraine, unless Putin traded Ukraine for something he considers equally valuable.

It's not about playing world police. It's about using any and all tools of deterrence that we have before Putin decides he can reassemble the USSR without consequences. I don't know if we have enough leverage on Putin, but now is the time to try.

There are some dumb ass takes in this thread. Ukraine was part of the USSR, so they should just go back to mother Russia? Should the United States go back to the United Kingdom as well? Should China go back to the Mongols?
The U.S. military should only ever defends its borders? Man it was stupid of us to join the European front in both world wars. The Europeans should've just fended for themselves.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
58,722
6,909
126
Clearly some people don't understand why NATO exists or which country is the dominant leader of the alliance. Obviously Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, so the U.S. has no intentions of putting any boots on the ground. Nevertheless, imposing new sanctions after a Russian invasion would be a disaster. You'd never be able to undo a Russian annexation of Ukraine, unless Putin traded Ukraine for something he considers equally valuable.

It's not about playing world police. It's about using any and all tools of deterrence that we have before Putin decides he can reassemble the USSR without consequences. I don't know if we have enough leverage on Putin, but now is the time to try.

There are some dumb ass takes in this thread. Ukraine was part of the USSR, so they should just go back to mother Russia? Should the United States go back to the United Kingdom as well? Should China go back to the Mongols?
The U.S. military should only ever defends its borders? Man it was stupid of us to join the European front in both world wars. The Europeans should've just fended for themselves.
WWII was a bit different than the Russia/Ukraine problem. If you can't see that, read your history books again.

I'm one of a handful here old enough to remember when the USSR rolled into Czechoslovakia in...1968. They didn't leave until 1991. WE "objected" to the invasion...as did NATO and the UN...the Soviets stayed.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Clearly some people don't understand why NATO exists or which country is the dominant leader of the alliance. Obviously Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, so the U.S. has no intentions of putting any boots on the ground. Nevertheless, imposing new sanctions after a Russian invasion would be a disaster. You'd never be able to undo a Russian annexation of Ukraine, unless Putin traded Ukraine for something he considers equally valuable.

It's not about playing world police. It's about using any and all tools of deterrence that we have before Putin decides he can reassemble the USSR without consequences. I don't know if we have enough leverage on Putin, but now is the time to try.

There are some dumb ass takes in this thread. Ukraine was part of the USSR, so they should just go back to mother Russia? Should the United States go back to the United Kingdom as well? Should China go back to the Mongols?
The U.S. military should only ever defends its borders? Man it was stupid of us to join the European front in both world wars. The Europeans should've just fended for themselves.

Putin can't reassemble USSR as that would result in WW3. The only country that can become part of Russia again is Ukraine and Belarus. Belarus will become Russia without a single shot being fired. Russia will never invade Latvia and Lithuania as they are part of EU. We are really talking about Ukraine and Ukraine alone. US really got no interest in Ukraine, it's highly unlikely that they would have become part of EU anytime soon nor would they be invited in to NATO. As such if anyone need to deal with Russia and Ukraine issue it's Europe as it's in their backyard.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,556
911
126
WWII was a bit different than the Russia/Ukraine problem. If you can't see that, read your history books again.

I'm one of a handful here old enough to remember when the USSR rolled into Czechoslovakia in...1968. They didn't leave until 1991. WE "objected" to the invasion...as did NATO and the UN...the Soviets stayed.
You literally wrote the U.S. military should only ever defend America's borders. Maybe you shouldn't say idiotic things, and then ask others to study history.

Putin can't reassemble USSR as that would result in WW3. The only country that can become part of Russia again is Ukraine and Belarus. Belarus will become Russia without a single shot being fired. Russia will never invade Latvia and Lithuania as they are part of EU. We are really talking about Ukraine and Ukraine alone. US really got no interest in Ukraine, it's highly unlikely that they would have become part of EU anytime soon nor would they be invited in to NATO. As such if anyone need to deal with Russia and Ukraine issue it's Europe as it's in their backyard.
I never said Putin would reassemble the entirety of the USSR. Nevertheless, there are plenty of former SSRs that he could annex if that was his primary objective in life. By your doctrine, you would let him take Ukraine and a bunch of other now independent countries in central Asia because they were former SSRs. By that same doctrine, I could then argue China should be given back to the Mongols.

Idiots.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
58,722
6,909
126
You literally wrote the U.S. military should only ever defend America's borders. Maybe you shouldn't say idiotic things, and then ask others to study history.


I never said Putin would reassemble the entirety of the USSR. Nevertheless, there are plenty of former SSRs that he could annex if that was his primary objective in life. By your doctrine, you would let him take Ukraine and a bunch of other now independent countries in central Asia because they were former SSRs. By that same doctrine, I could then argue China should be given back to the Mongols.

Idiots.
I did say that. I spent two years in combat in Vietnam. What a fucking waste of lives and money that shit was. The US should protect it's shores and borders, NOT try to police the planet.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,596
29,685
136
I have colleagues that are Russians and according to them, Puting don't give a crap about US sanctions. Yes it will impact him but it mainly will impact the Russian people which honestly he don't give a crap about. Putin got property on other people names such as family members that US is highly unlikely to touch. According to them, Putin wants Ukraine for two reason and it's a) he wants much more territory between NATO and Russia. Putin is afraid that Ukraine will eventually join NATO and it will be put American forces on Russia doorstep. 2nd reason he wants Ukrain is he wants to get a much territory back as possible that USSR had. Belarus likely soon to join Russia as well.
Not sure how sanctions would affect the Russian people here as you would be sanctioning Putin personally and not Russia the country.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
Not sure how sanctions would affect the Russian people here as you would be sanctioning Putin personally and not Russia the country.
From my understanding that is not the only thing that US planning on doing. Apparently there been talk of blocking Russia from accessing Europe/US banking system. In essence cutting them off from international financial market.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,596
29,685
136
From my understanding that is not the only thing that US planning on doing. Apparently there been talk of blocking Russia from accessing Europe/US banking system. In essence cutting them off from international financial market.
Well we will have to see - regardless Russia is extremely worried about personal sanctions against Putin himself, they are already warning us about how it is a red line for them. (One we should absolutely cross though)
 
  • Like
Reactions: hal2kilo

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
3,495
1,291
146
The US and UK (along with Russia) guaranteed their territorial integrity for giving up their nuclear weapons, so it is the US’s problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

The most serious consequence I’ve heard bandied about is to disconnect Russia from the Swift banking system.

Also, some more advanced anti-tank and anti-air weaponry could be transferred making it even more costly for Russia in terms of blood and treasure.

What should happen is full admittance into NATO.
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
5,869
1,267
136
Hmm, bad news. I think ideally there should be some way to make China and Russia fight, and take care of each other for us. Outside of that, perhaps just severe sanctions to start with, and if that doesn't work, ban all travel and trade to and from Russia.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY