Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Interesting thoughts from the Ukrainians on some of the weapons they've gotten. I'm sure owners of any German car made ever will be shocked to hear the Germans made something that is nice and fancy but also needs a lot more maintenance than other options (In this case a M777). If they ever really get to operate their Leopards it will be interesting to see if those carry on that same tradition for German made tanks


M777, HIMARS, M270 and the CV90 have gained attention by not just Ukraine but other countries based on their performance with a lot of orders and ramped up production lines expected. Hmm....I wonder how Russia's arms export business is going


I definitely wouldn't trust the water pump on those things!
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,332
7,789
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Interesting thoughts from the Ukrainians on some of the weapons they've gotten. I'm sure owners of any German car made ever will be shocked to hear the Germans made something that is nice and fancy but also needs a lot more maintenance than other options (In this case a M777). If they ever really get to operate their Leopards it will be interesting to see if those carry on that same tradition for German made tanks


M777, HIMARS, M270 and the CV90 have gained attention by not just Ukraine but other countries based on their performance with a lot of orders and ramped up production lines expected. Hmm....I wonder how Russia's arms export business is going


Archive article for those that don't have a WSJ sub: https://archive.ph/jAT1s
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Just ask Turkey their thoughts on Russian weapons they purchased or were going to purchase.

Trading the F-35 program for the S-400 was not in fact a good deal lol. The system is meh at best, they lost co-production of the premier fighter, and soured their relations with the US/EU.

The best part is that it's not operational and they're negotiating to acquire the SAMP/T system instead.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,332
7,789
136
Trading the F-35 program for the S-400 was not in fact a good deal lol. The system is meh at best, they lost co-production of the premier fighter, and soured their relations with the US/EU.

The best part is that it's not operational and they're negotiating to acquire the SAMP/T system instead.
MBTA-System, nice company that, huge demand! They are on a roll (2022 data):

1695917283046.png
 

Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
843
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Trading the F-35 program for the S-400 was not in fact a good deal lol. The system is meh at best, they lost co-production of the premier fighter, and soured their relations with the US/EU.

The best part is that it's not operational and they're negotiating to acquire the SAMP/T system





Sounds like Turkey made the right choice ditching this costly, nonfunctional fighter👍🏽
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,512
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Sounds like Turkey made the right choice ditching this costly, nonfunctional fighter👍🏽

An aircraft so unpopular that Lockheed is working to boost maximum production rate beyond 150 frames a year.

Cope harder my man.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,332
7,789
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An aircraft so unpopular that Lockheed is working to boost maximum production rate beyond 150 frames a year.

Cope harder my man.
Guy's a moron. There is a price to pay for amazing stealth capability. The availability percentage is only a bit worse than our other combat jets (60-65%). Block 4 F-35's are a huge upgrade. The world's best F/B gets even better. RAM coatings, perhaps the biggest problem area, won't get much better till the next gen fighters come along; using material more like the new B-21 Spirit uses. Also, this is from that great bastion of news reporting that is the NYPost.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,512
31,926
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Guy's a moron. There is a price to pay for amazing stealth capability. The availability percentage is only a bit worse than our other combat jets (60-65%). Block 4 F-35's are a huge upgrade. The world's best F/B gets even better. RAM coatings, perhaps the biggest problem area, won't get much better till the next gen fighters come along; using material more like the new B-21 Spirit uses. Also, this is from that great bastion of news reporting that is the NYPost.

F-35s - expensive and a little finicky as all high end systems are

The ability to roll over the best Russia has offer should the need arise and be nigh untouchable - priceless
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,215
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F-35s - expensive and a little finicky as all high end systems are

The ability to roll over the best Russia has offer should the need arise and be nigh untouchable - priceless
Not to mention Russia's GOAL is to produce a mighty 15 of their top end fighters a year. In an air war against the US those 15 wouldn't last 15 days.

Again, Russia is desperately struggling to compete with our 20+ year old castoffs. They should very much not want to see what our actually good stuff does.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,512
31,926
136
Not to mention Russia's GOAL is to produce a mighty 15 of their top end fighters a year. In an air war against the US those 15 wouldn't last 15 days.

Again, Russia is desperately struggling to compete with our 20+ year old castoffs. They should very much not want to see what our actually good stuff does.

They got a look at what such an experience would entail at Khasham. They were not fans.
 

Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
843
260
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F-35s - expensive and a little finicky as all high end systems are

The ability to roll over the best Russia has offer should the need arise and be nigh untouchable - priceless


F35s didn’t work against the Taliban, an army without a single plane, tank or boat but they’re supposed to work against Russia? Lol

They should focus on getting F35s off the ground I would think before putting them in combat missions.


Anyone remember this?

 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
6,577
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I think some people see Russia as the "underdog" in the global conflict with the US, and its human nature / a tendency to fairness to want to root for the underdog. Thing is "just because someone is the underdog, doesn't mean that they're the good guy" is very strongly at play here.

I think a lot of the contortions in trying to make Ukraine look like the bad guy/ aggressor look goofy as hell to us Americans because we're looking at this from a Ukraine vs Russia frame of reference and not a "Russia vs United States / NATO / Most Advanced Defense Cooperative in Human History".

Whole perspective makes more sense when viewed through an almost frozen cold war frame of reference where anyone that isn't the US or USSR was a pawn on the chessboard rather than a sovereign nation, rather than the post cold war frame us Americans look through.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,332
7,789
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I think a lot of the contortions in trying to make Ukraine look like the bad guy/ aggressor look goofy as hell to us Americans because we're looking at this from a Ukraine vs Russia frame of reference and not a "Russia vs United States / NATO / Most Advanced Defense Cooperative in Human History".
I'm sure Russia is doing it's best to promote the idea that Ukraine is the bad guy. And there are plenty of willing 'useful idiots' who are happy to carry their water for them.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,260
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F35s didn’t work against the Taliban, an army without a single plane, tank or boat but they’re supposed to work against Russia? Lol
See, anytime you pretend to be one of us, messages like this tell the lie.
I mean, the fact that you ONLY source pro-Russia material is a dead give away, no one but a propagandist is that invested in the Russian media sphere.
But you compound it with every anti-US message that isn't even related to Ukraine.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,215
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I think some people see Russia as the "underdog" in the global conflict with the US, and its human nature / a tendency to fairness to want to root for the underdog. Thing is "just because someone is the underdog, doesn't mean that they're the good guy" is very strongly at play here.

I think a lot of the contortions in trying to make Ukraine look like the bad guy/ aggressor look goofy as hell to us Americans because we're looking at this from a Ukraine vs Russia frame of reference and not a "Russia vs United States / NATO / Most Advanced Defense Cooperative in Human History".

Whole perspective makes more sense when viewed through an almost frozen cold war frame of reference where anyone that isn't the US or USSR was a pawn on the chessboard rather than a sovereign nation, rather than the post cold war frame us Americans look through.
I think Russia started this war off looking at it as 'Russia vs. Ukraine' but once they started losing it sort of had to become 'Russia vs. NATO' because otherwise the outcome was too humiliating to accept.

NATO has definitely helped Ukraine but Russia had already lost the war by the time most NATO aid arrived.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,260
7,315
136
I think some people see Russia as the "underdog" in the global conflict with the US, and its human nature / a tendency to fairness to want to root for the underdog.
If they do not care about Russia's genocidal invasion... if they don't care about an imperial colonizer caught in the act of seizing someone else's land.....
Then I have no use for them.

This is no team sport. It is a question of morality, a test of humanity. Whether we are ANY better than mere beasts.
If human life meant anything to them, they would act against the invader.
 
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Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
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So I guess Russia shouldn't have any problem with NATO giving Ukraine advanced fighter jets right? Should be a good time for Russia to show off their superior fight jets and embarrass NATO.
NATO is already getting embarrassed. Lost a war against the Taliban and about to lose another one.

But continue to put your faith in our demented, senile president coming out on top of all of this. His administration has done great job of wrecking our foreign policy and creating more adversaries than ever. Him calling Putin and MBS thugs and pariahs sure is doing wonders for the price of gas at the pump here at home⛽️
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,215
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So I guess Russia shouldn't have any problem with NATO giving Ukraine advanced fighter jets right? Should be a good time for Russia to show off their superior fight jets and embarrass NATO.
Last I checked Russia wouldn't let their super jets fly outside of Russian territory because they were afraid they would be shot down, lol.