Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[Dave_5k]

Elon made the very best decision possible. The expectation anyone could coerce a USA private entity into engaging in war with a State in an overt act of war is reprehensible.

The facts are very much in dispute, and lead to different outcomes in my mind:
1) One account claims Musk actively intervened in the war to protect the Russian fleet - proactively shutting off Ukrainian communications to do so. And thereby protecting Russian warships that were, and continue, to lob hundreds of missiles at Ukrainian cities, civilians, and civilian infrastructure. This would appear to fall under the category of aiding and abetting Russian war crimes - although probably not prosecutable.

2) An alternative account claims the satellite coverage was already ringfenced - preventing Ukraine's desired use for the attack - and Musk refused DoD emergency request to un-ringfence. If this ringfencing was in line with terms of service at the time, Musk declining to provide assistance outside of terms of service is understandable, although actively refusing a government request for assistance, that would cost him nothing, is far less understandable.

In any case, Musk's other strongly pro-Russia positions (basically echoing and promoting Russian propaganda) make most feel the interpretation falls closer to #1. And his claim that his actions were to prevent a widening of the war is a completely laughable explanation.

 

[trenchfoot]

He sold a service then stuck his nose into something that was none of his business.

I never thought I'd be able to say this but Trump's ego is no match for Elon's, not by a long shot. That guy is also much more of an anti-social loose cannon on deck than Trump. That he has, and absolutely knows he has a shit ton of world changing influence to push his weight around with is much like Gollum and his DID (disassortative identity disorder) demanding that he must be given his due because one of his personas is a crippled yet talented introvert savant while the other is a monster with a lust for power and control.

 

[IronWing]

Musk’s communications with Russia need to be investigated thoroughly. The Logan Act, while rarely enforced, appears to cover Musk’s conduct wrt aiding Russia.

 

[Brovane]

The facts are very much in dispute, and lead to different outcomes in my mind:
1) One account claims Musk actively intervened in the war to protect the Russian fleet - proactively shutting off Ukrainian communications to do so. And thereby protecting Russian warships that were, and continue, to lob hundreds of missiles at Ukrainian cities, civilians, and civilian infrastructure. This would appear to fall under the category of aiding and abetting Russian war crimes - although probably not prosecutable.

2) An alternative account claims the satellite coverage was already ringfenced - preventing Ukraine's desired use for the attack - and Musk refused DoD emergency request to un-ringfence. If this ringfencing was in line with terms of service at the time, Musk declining to provide assistance outside of terms of service is understandable, although actively refusing a government request for assistance, that would cost him nothing, is far less understandable.

In any case, Musk's other strongly pro-Russia positions (basically echoing and promoting Russian propaganda) make most feel the interpretation falls closer to #1. And his claim that his actions were to prevent a widening of the war is a completely laughable explanation.

The weird thing to me is if Musk is pro-Russia why did he even provide Starlink service for free to Russia? Despite the geo-fencing that SpaceX has setup, Ukraine (both Civilian and Military use) has found Starlink to be incredibly useful.

 

[Brovane]

I get that but it seems like a pretty arbitrary distinction.

I think SpaceX leadership was just naive when they enabled Starlink services in Ukraine as to the military potential of Starlink.

"Using Starlink with drones went beyond the scope of an agreement SpaceX has with the Ukrainian government, Shotwell said, adding the contract was intended for humanitarian purposes such as providing broadband internet to hospitals, banks and families affected by Russia's invasion.

"We know the military is using them for comms, and that's ok," she said. "But our intent was never to have them use it for offensive purposes.

Asked if SpaceX had anticipated Starlink's use for offensive purposes in Ukraine when deciding to ship terminals into conflict zones, Shotwell said: "We didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. Our starlink team may have, I don't know. But we learned pretty quickly."

 

[fskimospy]

I think SpaceX leadership was just naive when they enabled Starlink services in Ukraine as to the military potential of Starlink.

"Using Starlink with drones went beyond the scope of an agreement SpaceX has with the Ukrainian government, Shotwell said, adding the contract was intended for humanitarian purposes such as providing broadband internet to hospitals, banks and families affected by Russia's invasion.

"We know the military is using them for comms, and that's ok," she said. "But our intent was never to have them use it for offensive purposes.

Asked if SpaceX had anticipated Starlink's use for offensive purposes in Ukraine when deciding to ship terminals into conflict zones, Shotwell said: "We didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. Our starlink team may have, I don't know. But we learned pretty quickly."

It’s hard for me to imagine they are that stupid.

 

[dphantom]

I think SpaceX leadership was just naive when they enabled Starlink services in Ukraine as to the military potential of Starlink.

"Using Starlink with drones went beyond the scope of an agreement SpaceX has with the Ukrainian government, Shotwell said, adding the contract was intended for humanitarian purposes such as providing broadband internet to hospitals, banks and families affected by Russia's invasion.

"We know the military is using them for comms, and that's ok," she said. "But our intent was never to have them use it for offensive purposes.

Asked if SpaceX had anticipated Starlink's use for offensive purposes in Ukraine when deciding to ship terminals into conflict zones, Shotwell said: "We didn't think about it. I didn't think about it. Our starlink team may have, I don't know. But we learned pretty quickly."

It may be best to shutdown Starlink over both UKR and RU. Not saying he should but perhaps a consideration. Something to discuss- obviously rationaly, not here of course lol

 

[cytg111]

It may be best to shutdown Starlink over both UKR and RU. Not saying he should but perhaps a consideration. Something to discuss- obviously rationaly, not here of course lol

Who has filled SpaceX's coffers? Government contracts. Western capitalism. Could he have pulled SpaceX off in Russia? China?
No.
So when he is tasked with providing services in conjunction with government and vs a sworn enemy of the west and democratic ideals he gets to say thank you sir and shut the fuck up.
Little twerp.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

Overt act of war? What the fuck are you on about? They were already AT war, a invasion of their sovereign territory started by the imperialist terrorist state of Russia. Ukraine was already using Starlink to DEFEND themselves. Taking out naval assest used to hurl missles that killed Ukrainian civilians and vital Ukrainian infrastructure would have been yet another preemptive act of defense of their country.

Starlink was never meant to defend Ukraine. It was meant to be used for civilian purposes. That is what the contract stated.

His company, his satellites, his rules.

End of story.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Anyone who actively tries to prevent destruction of the Russian Navy is a criminal.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

Oil Price Resurgence Has Further to Run After the Saudis Turn the Screw

(Bloomberg) -- When crude surges above $90 a barrel and the leaders of Saudi Arabia and Russia get on the phone to congratulate each other on a job well done, oil consumers should take note. Most Read from BloombergBoss of Failed Crypto Exchange Gets 11,000-Year SentenceEverything Apple Plans to...

finance.yahoo.com

Looks like Biden and MBS are turning the screws on Biden with oil cuts. This is what happens when you have a moron for president who goes around calling people ‘thugs’ and ‘pariahs’. You can bet they will keep cutting exports/production until the 2024 elections.

Curious to see how this plays out.

 

[cytg111]

Starlink was never meant to defend Ukraine. It was meant to be used for civilian purposes. That is what the contract stated.

His company, his satellites, his rules.

End of story.

Irony being of course was the roles negated and he pulled that stunt in Russia he’d taken a swan dive the next day.
Some pussies dont know what good deal they have in the west…

 

[itsmydamnation]

Starlink was never meant to defend Ukraine. It was meant to be used for civilian purposes. That is what the contract stated.

His company, his satellites, his rules.

End of story.

can you please show us this contact seein you know what it says ?

PS i have both contracts an NDA's with spacex o starlink so i know exactly what they look like.......

 

[Drach]

It's understandable that he's a billionaire because we have our very own dphantoms and brandonbulls and tajs and compuwizs, et al, that quite clearly swallow his supplements down as if they were liters of cum from the very mushroom dick of DJ Trump.

They are called Trump dumpsters.

 

[Brovane]

It’s hard for me to imagine they are that stupid.

Well remember it was the US Intelligence community that thought Ukraine would fold in the matter of days under a Russian attack. A lot of things have surprised us about the war in Ukraine. So yes, I believe that the SpaceX leadership could be that stupid. They build rockets, they are not foreign policy experts despite someone acting like he is. I think the ingenious way that Ukraine has used drones in the war has surprised people even military analysts.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

can you please show us this contact seein you know what it says ?

PS i have both contracts an NDA's with spacex o starlink so i know exactly what they look like.......

Using Starlink with drones went beyond the scope of an agreement SpaceX has with the Ukrainian government, Shotwell said, adding the contract was intended for humanitarian purposes such as providing broadband internet to hospitals, banks and families affected by Russia's invasion.

"We know the military is using them for comms, and that's ok," she said. "But our intent was never to have them use it for offensive purposes."

SpaceX curbed Ukraine's use of Starlink internet for drones -company president

SpaceX has taken steps to prevent Ukraine's military from using the company's Starlink satellite internet service for controlling drones in the region during the country's war with Russia, SpaceX's president said Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

Your welcome.

 

[Dave_5k]

The weird thing to me is if Musk is pro-Russia why did he even provide Starlink service for free to Russia? Despite the geo-fencing that SpaceX has setup, Ukraine (both Civilian and Military use) has found Starlink to be incredibly useful.

While the very early initial service was partially provided for free, subsequently they have been reported to be making "hundreds of millions of dollars" off of Ukraine service - including service contracts now funded by the US DoD, as well as lots of purchases by other contributors to Ukraine.

I think SpaceX saw it as opportunity for good PR advertising (self-promoted initially as humanitarian support) which Musk went along with & likely believed, not recognizing or blind to the military benefits - but they then loudly whined about Ukraine using them for military purposes (which SpaceX subsequently partially shut off, deliberately crippled certain military uses and ringfenced off any counter-offensive use on retaking any Russian-occupied territory)

 

[RnR_au]

Winter could be tough.



Source

 

[RnR_au]

Maybe tough as well for the Russians... although their heating is mostly gas via pipe. Still... a slow paralysis of their transport networks would be uncomfortable. A small snippet from a long tweet on economic tidbits from inside Russia;

People are ready to block roads.” A farmers' revolt is brewing in one of #Russia's largest agricultural regions. Farmers in the Stavropol Territory cannot purchase fuel, cannot sell their crops at reasonable prices and are ready to “block roads,” said Sergei Kolesnikov, chairman of the region’s Farmers’ Association. According to the Agrobazar portal, intermediaries in the Stavropol region are ready to buy wheat at 7-8 rubles per kg, although last year prices reached 10-13 rubles. Added to the lack of revenue for the new #harvest, according to Kolesnikov, is a “mad rise in prices” for diesel fuel, which has risen in price by 26% in wholesale since the beginning of summer. But even at a record price it is impossible to buy fuel. “Now it (diesel) is completely absent. The situation is very critical, patience is running out, nerves are losing, people are ready to go out and block roads,” Kolesnikov said.

Source

Ties in with earlier reports of tire supply problems and fuel disruptions inside Russia.

 

[Dave_5k]

Well remember it was the US Intelligence community that thought Ukraine would fold in the matter of days under a Russian attack. A lot of things have surprised us about the war in Ukraine. So yes, I believe that the SpaceX leadership could be that stupid. They build rockets, they are not foreign policy experts despite someone acting like he is. I think the ingenious way that Ukraine has used drones in the war has surprised people even military analysts.

Agree, but also the way Russia/Iran have used low-cost, low tech drone swarms has also been a rather unpleasant surprise for everyone.

Russia is accomplishing for ~$20k a pop, what the US spends ~$30 million for a single drone plane, plus another ~$150k per missile, to accomplish (yes the US version is "better", but I don't think it is 1500 times better... it is far harder to counter 1500 suicide drones, vs. countering a single very vulnerable MQ-9 Reaper)

 

[Brovane]

can you please show us this contact seein you know what it says ?

PS i have both contracts an NDA's with spacex o starlink so i know exactly what they look like.......

Would you accept what Shotwell has said to reporters about what was in the agreement between SpaceX and the Ukrainian government?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I don't really care what the original wording or intent of the contract was. Things have changed. When you make an overt act to limit or prevent destruction of the enemy, you become the enemy.

They should be doing everything possible to aid UKR in their goal to eliminate the enemy.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

Agree, but also the way Russia/Iran have used low-cost, low tech drone swarms has also been a rather unpleasant surprise for everyone.

Russia is accomplishing for ~$20k a pop, what the US spends ~$30 million for a single drone plane, plus another ~$150k per missile, to accomplish (yes the US version is "better", but I don't think it is 1500 times better... it is far harder to counter 1500 suicide drones, vs. countering a single very vulnerable MQ-9 Reaper)

To be fair, you can’t compare a cheap Lancet drone to a MQ-9. They’re both drones but one is far more advanced than the other.

It is a valid point however when you are pitting a cheap Lancet drone against a 5 million dollar tank.

The real issue here, much like the oil issue is the Russian military industrial complex is nationalized where here it is privatized. Putin can just send in an order to build more Iskander missiles and it will get done. They probably don’t rely that much on resources from other countries to build their weapons because well, they’re the most resource rich country in the world. If they need semiconductors they can just get them thru China.

Here is a totally different story. Lots of red tape gets in the way(bids/negotiations/legal/contracts/etc). This is why, IMO you saw tons of articles last summer stating Russia would not be able to sustain the amount of artillery they were going thru. The same people that had these thoughts probably thought their industry worked similar to ours. Boy were they wrong.

At one point, the corporate news clowns were trying to tell us the Russian were left using shovels as weapons because they ran out of ammo LMAO.

Putin’s troops ‘left to fight with shovels’ as Russia suffers ammunition shortage

Reservists ordered to attack Ukrainian position 'armed with only firearms and shovels'

www.independent.co.uk

Unfortunately many people in this thread think the mainstream media is telling them the truth about how this war is going.

This is a classic example of what Chomsky described in his book ‘Manufacturing Consent’. It happened with Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq and how the government/media brainwashed the country into supporting wars and invasions. Here is a description of it from the man himself:

If you want the truth, you need to find it on Twitter and Telegram.

 

[Drach]

If you want the truth, you need to find it on Twitter and Telegram.

LOL

 

[Brovane]

I don't really care what the original wording or intent of the contract was. Things have changed. When you make an overt act to limit or prevent destruction of the enemy, you become the enemy.

They should be doing everything possible to aid UKR in their goal to eliminate the enemy.

You do realize that the Biden Administration isn't doing everything possible to eliminate the occupiers in Ukraine?