Old Thread, New Title: Maybe dems should focus on getting tough on crime vs relying on karma!!!!

[Indus]

Asking you to consider your stance from the hypothetical other side is a strawman? The fact that you can't (or won't) speaks volumes as to your rationality in regards to this subject.

It's naïve to believe that innocents are never falsely punished...and inhumane to think that their punishment is acceptable collateral loss.

Your commentary in this thread makes you sound like a bloodthirsty lunatic. Post #221 is a good example.

Believe what you will but that video is more than enough evidence that the attacker is far from innocent.

 

[dank69]

Believe what you will but that video is more than enough evidence that the attacker is far from innocent.

That isn't the point. The point is that you're willing to give up other innocent people's hands because you think it could never happen to you or someone you love.

 

[Indus]

Title by the OP suggests crime is up because Dems are soft on crime.

The truth is crime is up everywhere in the world.

And we shouldn't be willing to just accept that and move on.

Or you're doing exactly what the criminals want.. ignore it as reality of what you have to live with.

That isn't the point. The point is that you're willing to give up other innocent people's hands because you think it could never happen to you or someone you love.

That creates the strawman argument.

You can't defeat my argument with reason where there's a clear cut way to prove guilt, so you have to ask peter pan to make up a fantasy ride to somehow put innocence anywhere near this case.

FFS am I even advocating someone stealing $5 be executed?? But I've already been accused of trying to kill everyone I don't like in another strawman argument.

Grow up and smell the political reality before you start losing more blue seats to crazy right wingers.

 

[brycejones]

And we shouldn't be willing to just accept that and move on.

Or you're doing exactly what the criminals want.. ignore it as reality of what you have to live with.



That creates the strawman argument.

You can't defeat my argument with reason where there's a clear cut way to prove guilt, so you have to ask peter pan to make up a fantasy ride to somehow put innocence anywhere near this case.

FFS am I even advocating someone stealing $5 be executed?? But I've already been accused of trying to kill everyone I don't like in another strawman argument.

Grow up and smell the political reality before you start losing more blue seats to crazy right wingers.

Yes we should totally kill more people because of feels despite it being an ineffective strategy.

Way to have principles Indus.

 

[Indus]

Yes we should totally kill more people because of feels despite it being an ineffective strategy.

Way to have principles Indus.

Didn't Bill Clinton stop campaigning for a day and go back and okay death penalty of a death row prisoner because it would make him look not so soft on crime.

Looks and feels win elections. You gotta appeal to enough to win and implement your agenda.

We're clearly failing there seeing as hardcore blue districts flipped last year.

At the time I dismissed it as fox news political propaganda.. but the general sentiment remains and people who would be solid dem voters are looking for a dem who's tough on crime.

I am not the fucking problem.. the dem politicians losing due to how people feel they're soft on crime is the problem.

SOLVE IT.

 

[hal2kilo]

Seems someones been watching too much Fox.

 

[pmv]

Whatever the case may be, crime is not the answer. Im sure you would not like to suffer a loss, correct? If someone asks and I have enough to share, I will give. But dont hold me up at gunpoint and just take it.

Crime isn't the answer, but statistically if you present a large number of people with the same question, a significant proportion of them will come up with the wrong answer.

Hence if you want to reduce the number of people coming up with that wrong answer, the easiest way is to change the situation so they don't get asked the question.

 

[Indus]

Seems someones been watching too much Fox.

Haven't seen fox since 2015 escalator incident.

Just fucking alarmed by neighborhood, co-workers, bodega owners all starting to repeat fox.

Edit: And oh.. it's not just 1 person saying it or 10.. you can brush off 10 new yorkers being crazy on account of diversity, but when it's more than 50 people and the districts flip.. I'd say we have a serious problem here.

Ofcourse we can ignore it like Hildabeast's problems or we can actually amend our platform to win and make the changes we want.

 

[brycejones]

Didn't Bill Clinton stop campaigning for a day and go back and okay death penalty of a death row prisoner because it would make him look not so soft on crime.

Looks and feels win elections. You gotta appeal to enough to win and implement your agenda.

We're clearly failing there seeing as hardcore blue districts flipped last year.

At the time I dismissed it as fox news political propaganda.. but the general sentiment remains and people who would be solid dem voters are looking for a dem who's tough on crime.

I am not the fucking problem.. the dem politicians losing due to how people feel they're soft on crime is the problem.

SOLVE IT.

So to be clear your agenda includes expanding state sanctioned murder?

 

[Indus]

So to be clear your agenda includes expanding state sanctioned murder?

My agenda is taking back SCOTUS and eradicating election stealing fascists.

If expanding state sanctioned executions of criminals is the way forward.. SIGN ME UP!

 

[Vic]

Haven't seen fox since 2015 escalator incident.

Just fucking alarmed by neighborhood, co-workers, bodega owners all starting to repeat fox.

Edit: And oh.. it's not just 1 person saying it or 10.. you can brush off 10 new yorkers being crazy on account of diversity, but when it's more than 50 people and the districts flip.. I'd say we have a serious problem here.

Ofcourse we can ignore it like Hildabeast's problems or we can actually amend our platform to win and make the changes we want.

What exactly is it that Fox news and Republican politicians promote that would actually be effectively in combating crime? What specific policies are they promoting that would make a difference? Or isn't it really that they're just blaming the Dems and the big bad cities to distract from the crime problems in their own districts?

Because you're not wrong that this is an image problem for the Dems, but that's all it is. The Pubs have no actual solutions to crime besides kneejerk draconianism (directed at the poor, minorities, immigrants, and LGBT), police worship, and bringing back the war on drugs. None of which are actually going to do anything to bring down crime rates.

 

[Vic]

My agenda is taking back SCOTUS and eradicating election stealing fascists.

If expanding state sanctioned executions of criminals is the way forward.. SIGN ME UP!

Murder rates are not lower in states that still have the death penalty.

 

[Indus]

What exactly is it that Fox news and Republican politicians promote that would actually be effectively in combating crime? What specific policies are they promoting that would be likely to be effective? Or isn't it really that they're just blaming Dems?

Because you're not wrong that this is an image problem for the Dems, but that's all it is. The Pubs have no actual solutions to crime besides kneejerk draconianism (directed at the poor, minorities, immigrants, and LGBT), police worship, and bringing back the war on drugs. None of which are actually going to do anything to bring crimes rates.

I agree whole heartedly.

But why is it dems tend to represent the under represented really well to make sure they don't feel under assault but when the assault does happen by criminals or hate groups.. they try to act holier than thou and want people to forgive..

Well that's not reality. Most people don't want to forgive.. they want revenge.

A lot of naturally dem voters go over to the gop because they sell them on "revenge politics". And the dems seem to have no answer for it.

 

[Indus]

Murder rates are not lower in states that still have the death penalty.

You really think that'll change hearts and minds of voters?

They want their pound of flesh.

And if you're willing to do it.. you just might do enough to capture trifectas.

 

[Moonbeam]

You really think that'll change hearts and minds of voters?

They want their pound of flesh.

And if you're willing to do it.. you just might do enough to capture trifectas.

Very Republican of you. The relevant virtue is winning? Who wants to sell their self respect for a political victory? Have you forgotten what makes life worth living?

 

[Indus]

Very Republican of you. The relevant virtue is winning. Who wants to sell their self respect for a political victory? Have you forgotten what makes life worth living?

Winning? We're losing.

We're losing people's lives to criminals.
We're losing women's rights to Republicans
We're losing lgbt's right to Bigots
We're losing minorities left and right to Propaganda for being soft on crime.
We lost Scalia, Kennedy and RGB's seats and no one seems to care about SCOTUS at the next election.

If you think we're winning.. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

List how we're winning.


Seriously everyone here who's arguing against me is like Stockton Rush wishing and thinking things are okay and I'm the fucking structural engineer saying there's a problem that you need to fucking fix.

 

[pmv]

Winning? We're losing.

We're losing people's lives to criminals.
We're losing women's rights to Republicans
We're losing lgbt's right to Bigots
We're losing minorities left and right to Propaganda for being soft on crime.
We lost Scalia, Kennedy and RGB's seats and no one seems to care about SCOTUS at the next election.

If you think we're winning.. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

List how we're winning.


Seriously everyone here who's arguing against me is like Stockton Rush wishing and thinking things are okay and I'm the fucking structural engineer saying there's a problem that you need to fucking fix.

Weird - I don't think I agree with you regarding the death penalty, but I agree with the general gist of this comment.

 

[Moonbeam]

You really think that'll change hearts and minds of voters?

They want their pound of flesh.

And if you're willing to do it.. you just might do enough to capture trifectas.

Look at it from a similarly deranged point of view to your own. The left will win far more elections if they stop pushing for the rights of gay people or maybe supporting slavery.

I think you might be feeling the effects of victim mentality and are asking for special entitlements just like Republicans who feel it’s unfair that democracy works against them. Sorry but I can’t go around killing people so you will feel safer.

 

[Moonbeam]

Winning? We're losing.

We're losing people's lives to criminals.
We're losing women's rights to Republicans
We're losing lgbt's right to Bigots
We're losing minorities left and right to Propaganda for being soft on crime.
We lost Scalia, Kennedy and RGB's seats and no one seems to care about SCOTUS at the next election.

If you think we're winning.. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

List how we're winning.


Seriously everyone here who's arguing against me is like Stockton Rush wishing and thinking things are okay and I'm the fucking structural engineer saying there's a problem that you need to fucking fix.

I used a period instead of a question mark. I will edit again.

 

[Indus]

Look at it from a similarly deranged point of view to your own. The left will win far more elections if they stop pushing for the rights of gay people or maybe supporting slavery.

I think you might be feeling the effects of victim mentality and are asking for special entitlements just like Republicans who feel it’s unfair that democracy works against them. Sorry but I can’t go around killing people so you will feel safer.

LGBTQ are our BASE.
Can't win without them.
Criminals were never our base.

If you want to protect the criminals..
You play into Republican's hands..
SOFT ON CRIME Dems just like Moonbeam.

Moonbeam tries to CRUSH you, but you DODGE!
Messaging at 4th grade level matters!

 

[dank69]

And we shouldn't be willing to just accept that and move on.

Or you're doing exactly what the criminals want.. ignore it as reality of what you have to live with.



That creates the strawman argument.

You can't defeat my argument with reason where there's a clear cut way to prove guilt, so you have to ask peter pan to make up a fantasy ride to somehow put innocence anywhere near this case.

FFS am I even advocating someone stealing $5 be executed?? But I've already been accused of trying to kill everyone I don't like in another strawman argument.

Grow up and smell the political reality before you start losing more blue seats to crazy right wingers.

No friendo, it isn't a strawman. You don't get to pretend there aren't biases and mistakes in our justice system, ALL THE TIME (because humans are fallible, even you as hard as that may be to believe). You just have the luxury of never being on the receiving end of one of those mistakes.

 

[Moonbeam]

We create what we fear. The fear of crime creates a demand for punishment which creates a criminal mentality that justifies revenge. As is typical of the insane like yourself, you believe that more of what created the problem in the first place will solve the issue.

As usual the horse escaped the barn so long ago nobody ever wonders why it ran away.

criminals are people so lacking in self respect and the joy of life as a challenge that all they can do is prey off of other people who feel similarly helpless.

imagine the inner state of a Zen Master who was reported to have said, on finding his house burglarize, Too bad I couldn’t have given them the moon in the sky.

What kind of person other than the inwardly poor seek the death penalty for those so much worse off they can‘t help but announce to the world how worthless they feel? Why do the same thing?

 

[Moonbeam]

LGBTQ are our BASE.
Can't win without them.
Criminals were never our base.

If you want to protect the criminals..
You play into Republican's hands..
SOFT ON CRIME Dems just like Moonbeam.

Moonbeam tries to CRUSH you, but you DODGE!
Messaging at 4th grade level matters!

You have become what you fear, just another authoritarian Nazi of the left.

Can you guess why 4th grade messaging appeals to you? You have internalized the message you are some kind of evil monster because of your gender identification and are manifesting that internalization. Sad, very sad!

 

[cytg111]

FFS am I even advocating someone stealing $5 be executed?? But I've already been accused of trying to kill everyone I don't like in another strawman

Thats not fair, that was proving a point over several back and forth’s, you know this, you were there, dont do that, victimizing one self looks good on no one.
Point was, if you gonna kill carjackers you gonna need to kill every other crime at same level or above. Welcome to taliban country. Enjoy.
I dont think anyone is saying be soft on crime, think the consensus is be smart on crime… And dont fall into the emotional motivation silo that hooked so many Trumpanzees. Lock her up, lock her up, kill the criminals, kill the criminals.

 

[Jaskalas]

Just curious.. if there was video evidence or dna matches required.. would you be pro DP or against?

That's tough.

First of all, video can be completely faked these days. And I mean... completely. When armatures do a far better job of replacing someone's face on a video, than professional studios, it is just a matter of time until we all recognize the truth. That ALL video is fake now. Not a single one can be trusted as being real. Not anymore.

Second, when it comes to DNA. What about chain of custody? Maybe the defendant was marked by someone who was able to plant or otherwise forge the DNA results. Would be real easy to have an intended target, grab some hair from them, and plant at a crime scene that otherwise lacked a lead. Might take more time and patience than most crimes, but it can certainly be done by the criminally inclined who had a beef with someone and a score to settle.

Why get your hands dirty when the State will take revenge on your behalf?
That is actually the problem with the Death Penalty. Even the best cases.... something could still be wrong.

It gives me some comfort in cases where there's a mass shooter and we catch them. ID confirmed in very little time, with multiple witnesses. When there is absolutely no doubt of guilt. Beyond reasonable doubt. Certainly beyond circumstantial cases. I hate those. DP for mere guess work? God damn, no wonder so many innocent people have been executed over the years. We handle it very poorly by not raising the standards considerably.

In the next decade, our standards will have to rise again as tech makes video worthless. Not without proven chain of custody to ensure no one tampered with or inserted a forgery.