Old Thread, New Title: Maybe dems should focus on getting tough on crime vs relying on karma!!!!

[FelixDeCat]

I'd bet it's overwhelmingly the poor who shoplift. That's why the cost-of-living crisis has been accompanied by a big rise in such losses from shops. Occasionally you get a celeb caught at it - I guess it's a mixture of thrill-seeking, a sense-of-entitlement, and (for the older ones) dementia. But they are a tiny minority of them (and many of those celebs are pretty conservative).

The only political aspect I've noticed is that there seems to be an overlap between shoplifters and a certain kind of squat-dwelling anarchist sub-culture (where being a scofflaw seems to be obligatory if you are to maintain credibility among your peers).

Poor is probably a relative thing. Some might steal out of necessity others for financial gain. Either way, its a shame society has to deal with them.

But they are not the worst of the bunch. That honor goes to armed robbers, car jackers and home invaders.

 

[Indus]

Poor is probably a relative thing. Some might steal out of necessity others for financial gain. Either way, its a shame society has to deal with them.

But they are not the worst of the bunch. That honor goes to armed robbers, car jackers and home invaders.

28,548 posts. First one being semi-correct.

1st semi-correct post in 78 years if you posted once daily.

That's impressive consistently being wrong so often.

Here's some more catnip!

 

[Zorba]

I've never been a fan of capitol punishment for exactly this reason. Mistakes are irreversible.

I used to be pretty pro death penalty, but I've definitely changed my beliefs, mostly due to learning how many mistakes the justice system makes.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Poor is probably a relative thing. Some might steal out of necessity others for financial gain. Either way, its a shame society has to deal with them.

But they are not the worst of the bunch. That honor goes to armed robbers, car jackers and home invaders.

disagree. companies and the uber wealthy steal far more from the country as a whole.

wage theft costs workers nearly $50B per year:

Wage theft often goes unpunished despite state systems meant to combat it

Many wage theft victims are never paid a dime. Others are left waiting for months or even years, an investigation by CBS News found.

www.cbsnews.com

for 4 years (at least), tech companies agreed not to poach from each other:

High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

let's say this affects 100,000 workers across the industry, with wages being suppressed by 10,000 per person (if not more).

that's at least $4B in wages not delivered to people for 4 years. and of course that probably hasn't persisted just persisted, but also compounded.


then you get into privatizing profits and socializing losses.....yes, companies absolutely steal from the public far more than any individual armed robber could possibly dream of. we just punish physical crime (violations of person or property) more than we do non-physical (e.g. financial) ones.

 

[Indus]

I used to be pretty pro death penalty, but I've definitely changed my beliefs, mostly due to learning how many mistakes the justice system makes.

Just curious.. if there was video evidence or dna matches required.. would you be pro DP or against?

 

[Greenman]

Just curious.. if there was video evidence or dna matches required.. would you be pro DP or against?

Seems like that would depend on the crime.

 

[cytg111]

Poor is probably a relative thing. Some might steal out of necessity others for financial gain. Either way, its a shame society has to deal with them.

But they are not the worst of the bunch. That honor goes to armed robbers, car jackers and home invaders.

True. Its a shame there is poor people who cant afford basic shit.
That was what you meant. Right? Right?

 

[FelixDeCat]

disagree. companies and the uber wealthy steal far more from the country as a whole.

wage theft costs workers nearly $50B per year:

Wage theft often goes unpunished despite state systems meant to combat it

Many wage theft victims are never paid a dime. Others are left waiting for months or even years, an investigation by CBS News found.

www.cbsnews.com

for 4 years (at least), tech companies agreed not to poach from each other:

High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

let's say this affects 100,000 workers across the industry, with wages being suppressed by 10,000 per person (if not more).

that's at least $4B in wages not delivered to people for 4 years. and of course that probably hasn't persisted just persisted, but also compounded.


then you get into privatizing profits and socializing losses.....yes, companies absolutely steal from the public far more than any individual armed robber could possibly dream of. we just punish physical crime (violations of person or property) more than we do non-physical (e.g. financial) ones.

We can tax the wealthy, but unions are not the answer.

 

[Fenixgoon]

We can tax the wealthy, but unions are not the answer.

please explain how unions are not the answer (or wouldn't be helpful). i'm glad we agree on taxing the rich though.

 

[FelixDeCat]

True. Its a shame there is poor people who cant afford basic shit.
That was what you meant. Right? Right?

Whatever the case may be, crime is not the answer. Im sure you would not like to suffer a loss, correct? If someone asks and I have enough to share, I will give. But dont hold me up at gunpoint and just take it.

 

[FelixDeCat]

please explain how unions are not the answer (or wouldn't be helpful). i'm glad we agree on taxing the rich though.

Unions run amok with power and never no when to stop asking for too much. Just look at what they did to automakers in 2008. Two of three in America went bankrupt. And they are constantly striking.

If you dont like a company, dont work there. This isnt the early 1900s.

 

[IronWing]

We can tax the wealthy, but unions are not the answer.

Of course unions are the answer; don't be silly. The American middle class exists because of unions, and only because of unions. The erosion of the middle class started immediately with the decline of union power. The wealthy are at war with everyone else and unions are a great way to fight back.

 

[IronWing]

This isnt the early 1900s.

Correct, it's the 1890s. Workers are under constant attack by the wealthy and need to organize and fight to reclaim the wealth produced by their labor, wealth that has been skimmed by a parasitic wealth class.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Unions run amok with power and never no when to stop asking for too much. Just look at what they did to automakers in 2008. Two of three in America went bankrupt. And they are constantly striking.

If you dont like a company, dont work there. This isnt the early 1900s.

counterpoint: the uber wealthy never know when to stop. they crash economies globally. just look what they did in...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States
in my lifetime, that would be 1998, 2008, and now 2023 where greedflation has taken hold.

 

[Zorba]

Just curious.. if there was video evidence or dna matches required.. would you be pro DP or against?

In general, I think life in prison is just as effective and it has proven to be much cheaper. Also in real cases, the if the evidence is that overwhelming, the person will likely plea and therefore not face the death penalty.

Short answer, in the case that the evidence was obvious, I wouldn't mind the death penalty, but wouldn't push for it either.

I also think it is crap the debate about "being tough on crime" is always about people doing property crimes or "smaller" violent crimes, while people committing major fraud and theft or knowingly and willingly killing their customers have no real punishment. You want to throw a shoplifter in jail for 5 years, fine, but the managers conducting wage theft should be sitting right next to them.

 

[Vic]

Unions run amok with power and never no when to stop asking for too much. Just look at what they did to automakers in 2008. Two of three in America went bankrupt. And they are constantly striking.

If you dont like a company, dont work there. This isnt the early 1900s.

The unions weren't responsible for the Great Recession.

 

[dank69]

BTW..

Stabbing death of CVS shoplifter Charles Brito is sign of a breakdown in law enforcement: experts

The stabbing death of a shoplifter at a Midtown CVS has New Yorkers once again buzzing about how a dramatic rise in retail theft since the COVID pandemic should be addressed — and whether mor…

www.nydailynews.com

The stabbing death of a shoplifter at a Midtown CVS has New Yorkers once again buzzing about how a dramatic rise in retail theft since the COVID pandemic should be addressed — and whether more violence in stores can be expected.

Charles Brito, the 50-year-old suspected shoplifter who was stabbed dead by a store clerk, had a history of petty theft before he walked into the CVS on Broadway and W. 49th St. early Thursday morning.

According to cops, Brito punched the clerk, Scotty Enoe, in the face after Enoe attempted to stop him from lifting merchandise. Enoe then pulled out a knife and stabbed Brito in the torso. Enoe is facing charges in the killing.

But the bloody end to Brito’s life could have been avoided, according to elected officials, store owners and law enforcement experts who say much more needs to be done to prevent shoplifting from happening in the first place.

“It’s totally predictable that you’re going to have events like this when you cripple law enforcement,” said Eugene O’Donnell, a former NYPD officer who now lectures at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “Basically, you have the law of the street now. It falls on store clerks and subway passengers — they have to step in and fill the vacuum that should be filled by having a reliable, dependable, accessible law enforcement and security apparatus.”

O’Donnell contends that a failure to adequately prosecute low-level crimes like shoplifting has resulted in a climate where cops are less likely to arrest suspected thieves, and store clerks are less likely to expect cops to respond to calls.

Francisco Marte, the president of the Bodega and Small Business Group, offered a similar view.

Marte helped bail out Harlem bodega worker Jose Alba after he fatally stabbed a patron who attacked him behind the counter of a corner store, and he advocated for his charges to be dropped. He also threw his support behind Harlem fish market worker Junior Hernandez who fatally stabbed a man and wounded his brother after they were thwarted from shoplifting shrimp.

“Every time something like this happens, you can see that the person has over 20 previous arrests. So what are they doing on the street? They’re supposed to be in jail,” he said. “We as a community have to hold accountable our elected officials, as well as our DAs. They are not doing their jobs. They are the ones that are creating the environment in which people think that they can commit crimes and get away with it.”

In particular, Marte faulted the Manhattan District Attorney, Alvin Bragg.

Bragg came under fire as soon as he took office in January 2022 when he advised prosecutors to charge people accused of armed robbery in stores with petit larceny, provided they didn’t create a genuine risk of physical harm. After catching blowback for the move, Bragg clarified the policy, saying his office would seek felony charges for anyone waving a gun in a store — loaded or not.

Petty larcenies, the majority of them connected to shoplifting, rose a staggering 44% from 2021 to 2022 and have remained largely flat this year, dropping just 2%, according to NYPD data. Police made over 22,000 retail theft arrestselast year.

Shoplifting rates have steadily risen across the country since the pandemic. According to the National Retail Federation, retailers nationwide lost $94.5 billion in merchandise in 2021, a number that’s expected to rise to $115 billion by 2025. In New York, shoppers in many drug stores need to ask clerks to unlock containers shielding everyday items.

Councilman Bob Holden (D-Queens) wrote to CVS last month to demand that the chain pharmacy do more to address thefts in its stores within his district. On Friday he told the Daily News that the company has been responsive.

“The cops are overwhelmed,” he said. “If you listen to the scanner, each car is holding five 911 jobs. They’re going to put someone shoplifting from CVS way on the bottom of the list — they’re not going to get there on time. So we need to beef up security.”

Good news. Perp is dead. According to you crime will be reduced now.

 

[dank69]

Just curious.. if there was video evidence or dna matches required.. would you be pro DP or against?

Better for 100 criminals to walk free than one innocent person be executed.

 

[Indus]

Good news. Perp is dead. According to you crime will be reduced now.

Yep.

But it was karma rather than the cops!

 

[Moonbeam]

Yep.

But it was karma rather than the cops!

Yes, clearly the Jeep driver was being punished for something.

 

[Indus]

Better for 100 criminals to walk free than one innocent person be executed.

Right.. well here's 1 innocent dying right in front of you..

Shocking video shows 87-year-old Queens shooting spree victim’s final moments, randomly targeted by gunman on scooter

Devastating video footage shows an 87-year-old man’s final moments on a Queens sidewalk after he was shot by a scooter-riding gunman who left three others wounded in a bloody spree. The suspe…

www.nydailynews.com

The solution isn't the right wing solution of everyone carrying AR-15's.. it's to make sure these criminals never have a chance to commit crimes again.

If you don't wanna execute them, Take a page out of the Russkie book.

Saw off their hands and take them off any benefits. Let that be their punishment instead of crowding the jails.

 

[dank69]

Right.. well here's 1 innocent dying right in front of you..

Shocking video shows 87-year-old Queens shooting spree victim’s final moments, randomly targeted by gunman on scooter

Devastating video footage shows an 87-year-old man’s final moments on a Queens sidewalk after he was shot by a scooter-riding gunman who left three others wounded in a bloody spree. The suspe…

www.nydailynews.com

The solution isn't the right wing solution of everyone carrying AR-15's.. it's to make sure these criminals never have a chance to commit crimes again.

If you don't wanna execute them, Take a page out of the Russkie book.

Saw off their hands and take them off any benefits. Let that be their punishment instead of crowding the jails.

I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune if you happened to be the one innocently accused with your hands on the chopping block. Your hands are worth some stupid old shit feeling irrationally safer.

 

[Indus]

I'm sure you'd be singing the same tune if you happened to be the one innocently accused with your hands on the chopping block. Your hands are worth some stupid old shit feeling irrationally safer.

Strawman argument.

 

[Pohemi]

Asking you to consider your stance from the hypothetical other side is a strawman? The fact that you can't (or won't) speaks volumes as to your rationality in regards to this subject.

It's naïve to believe that innocents are never falsely punished...and inhumane to think that their punishment is acceptable collateral loss.

Your commentary in this thread makes you sound like a bloodthirsty lunatic. Post #221 is a good example.

 

[HomerJS]

Title by the OP suggests crime is up because Dems are soft on crime.

The truth is crime is up everywhere in the world.