Old Thread, New Title: Maybe dems should focus on getting tough on crime vs relying on karma!!!!

[Indus]

Lol @ the Post.

It’s so weird that you have convinced yourself that NYC is not safe when it’s safer today than it’s been at almost any point in your entire life.

It isn't about me silly.

I'm a dem.. I'll vote dem.

What's worrying for me is people around me having "convinced" themselves and it's freaking me the hell out.

Like how the heck do I even get through to these people.. that weren't sold on Trump.. hated him but are now after Jan 6, abortion and their hate still gravitating to them because of "not feeling safe".

It's like I'm the LONE holdout here amongst a sea of idiots. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

 

[fskimospy]

It isn't about me silly.

I'm a dem.. I'll vote dem.

What's worrying for me is people around me having "convinced" themselves and it's freaking me the hell out.

Like how the heck do I even get through to these people.. that weren't sold on Trump.. hated him but are now after Jan 6, abortion and their hate still gravitating to them because of "not feeling safe".

It's like I'm the LONE holdout here amongst a sea of idiots. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

I think it’s mostly clown publications like the post and our clown mayor. Adams spent a year lying about how the city was unsafe and is now mad people believed him.

 

[Indus]

I think it’s mostly clown publications like the post and our clown mayor. Adams spent a year lying about how the city was unsafe and is now mad people believed him.

You could be right.. no one gives him a good grade. Everyone thinks he's awful.

What was alarming was how many Asians are running for city council as Republicans:

Helen Qiu
Emily Yuexin
Yu-Ching Pai
Bernard Chow
Danniel Maio
Rusat RamGopal

Sure there are opportunists and idiots looking to be the lone fighter against AOC congressionally but this anti-soft on crime wave is resonating locally here.

 

[Moonbeam]

You could be right.. no one gives him a good grade. Everyone thinks he's awful.

What was alarming was how many Asians are running for city council as Republicans:

Helen Qiu
Emily Yuexin
Yu-Ching Pai
Bernard Chow
Danniel Maio
Rusat RamGopal

Sure there are opportunists and idiots looking to be the lone fighter against AOC congressionally but this anti-soft on crime wave is resonating locally here.

In all the warnings I posted here about Trump beating Clinton in 2016, I was told I was shaking in my boots because I was taking right wing propaganda seriously. I had to consider that possibility carefully. My message, like yours, was that Democrats were not taking the threat of Trump seriously and were campaigning too heavily on racial identity issues. I still think that. I think they make the same mistake trying to bam guns and I agree they have traditionally been poor on responding to fear mongering on law and order.

I do think, however, that in this case you are on about, the answer is not to get tougher on crime as you look at it, but to demonstrate that liberal justice works. I believe all the screaming about soft on crime will dissipate when the public sees Trump and ilk going to jail and social networks, as in social services, are strengthened. An empty stomach will make a thief out of anybody when all other avenues are blocked.

That does not mean that some will say they were blocked for them when in fact they weren’t.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Lol @ the Post.

It’s so weird that you have convinced yourself that NYC is not safe when it’s safer today than it’s been at almost any point in your entire life.

If I'm not mistaken him and his wife were physically attacked a few years ago.

Its sad that they're falling into exactly the propaganda that enables what happened to them though. Its also the exact same shit the NYPD and Republicans nationwide used during the Rodney King riots, playing Asian Americans against black people. We've seen this exact same shit over and over and over. Shame the OP experienced such trauma, and doubly so that its affecting their ability to see they're being manipulated.

 

[Lezunto]

NYC is just a strange, crazy, and violent place.

The rampant crime, general nastiness in the streets, the mayhem on the subways make the city hard to live in. Unless you're rich.

The never-ending racism of Rudy, the Stop and Frisk bullcrap of Bloomberg and skyrocketing rents are what made me leave the Big Apple for good in March 2010.

Hope it gets better for those who need to stay or cannot leave for various reasons.

 

[fskimospy]

NYC is just a strange, crazy, and violent place.

The rampant crime, general nastiness in the streets, the mayhem on the subways make the city hard to live in. Unless you're rich.

The never-ending racism of Rudy, the Stop and Frisk bullcrap of Bloomberg and skyrocketing rents are what made me leave the Big Apple for good in March 2010.

Hope it gets better for those who need to stay or cannot leave for various reasons.

NYC is one of the safest big cities in America - what planet are you living on?

 

[Indus]

NYC is one of the safest big cities in America - what planet are you living on?

I think we have to realize NY is a very first gen immigrant city that has a lot of people compare safety to "back home" where they came from or for long term residents to what they "had before".

Also perception changes a lot when it's a lot closer to home and NIMBYism. Howard Beach isn't that far from me and people are still pissed off about the Karina Vetrano murder and it happened 7 years ago!

The perception sticks much more easily than numbers especially when the person saying numbers out loud isn't credible.

 

[dank69]

One more time for the slow kids: you eliminate crime by making sure everyone's basic needs are met, not by punishing people desperate people doing desperate things. You want less crime? Stop voting for Republicans. If you think Republicans will lower crime rates you deserve everything you get.

 

[fskimospy]

I think we have to realize NY is a very first gen immigrant city that has a lot of people compare safety to "back home" where they came from or for long term residents to what they "had before".

Also perception changes a lot when it's a lot closer to home and NIMBYism. Howard Beach isn't that far from me and people are still pissed off about the Karina Vetrano murder and it happened 7 years ago!

The perception sticks much more easily than numbers especially when the person saying numbers out loud isn't credible.

I’m pretty sure it’s mostly the perception the city got in the 70s through 90s. To some extent the city likes to play up the gritty image.

That being said I don’t think NYC being perceived as crime ridden is driven by the average resident - most people I know have had a friend or relative say something just like what he wrote and they are not immigrants. It’s people mistaking movies for real life.

 

[pmv]

I think we have to realize NY is a very first gen immigrant city that has a lot of people compare safety to "back home" where they came from or for long term residents to what they "had before".

Also perception changes a lot when it's a lot closer to home and NIMBYism. Howard Beach isn't that far from me and people are still pissed off about the Karina Vetrano murder and it happened 7 years ago!

The perception sticks much more easily than numbers especially when the person saying numbers out loud isn't credible.

I wonder about all that. I really don't know where the truth lies.

I know when I've visited NYC, or other large US cities, I've felt pretty nervous after dark (and had a couple of unnerving experiences). But on the other hand, I don't feel any worry about walking round London at all hours, yet I've met lots of provincials who think the city is terrifying and that there's a high likelihood of getting stabbed.

I think perhaps a lot of it comes down to simple familiarity. You always feel a greater sense of threat somewhere new or unfamiliar. Hence visitors always find a place slightly scary.

The other issue is population density - there have been quite a lot of murders within a few miles of me over the years...when I read about them in the local paper and realise that happened just a street away it is disturbing.

But when I do the maths and take into account just how many _people_ live in that area, the per-capita rate of killings is not particularly high compared to other places.

 

[fskimospy]

I wonder about all that. I really don't know where the truth lies.

I know when I've visited NYC, or other large US cities, I've felt pretty nervous after dark (and had a couple of unnerving experiences). But on the other hand, I don't feel any worry about walking round London at all hours, yet I've met lots of provincials who think the city is terrifying and that there's a high likelihood of getting stabbed.

I think perhaps a lot of it comes down to simple familiarity. You always feel a greater sense of threat somewhere new or unfamiliar. Hence visitors always find a place slightly scary.

The other issue is population density - there have been quite a lot of murders within a few miles of me over the years...when I read about them in the local paper and realise that happened just a street away it is disturbing.

But when I do the maths and take into account just how many _people_ live in that area, the per-capita rate of killings is not particularly high compared to other places.

The US in general is simply a much more violent place than basically anywhere in Western Europe so your feelings are not unfounded at least compared to home. That being said as long as we are talking about cities in America NYC is quite safe.

People probably don’t think of Oklahoma City as a crime ridden dystopia for example but its murder rate is MUCH higher than NYC.

 

[mindless1]

One more time for the slow kids: you eliminate crime by making sure everyone's basic needs are met, not by punishing people desperate people doing desperate things.

Yeah, I'm sure those kids stole the car to desperately meet their basic needs. They were carpooling to work, obviously.

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah, I'm sure those kids stole the car to desperately meet their basic needs. They were carpooling to work, obviously.

Of course meeting needs alone will not eliminate crime but it can definitely help. I think we should expand resources to the police as well but it has to be paired with accountability.

I think the best model would be for cities to follow Camden and disband/recreate their police departments to eliminate the unions. Only when they are out of the way can real progress be made.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah, I'm sure those kids stole the car to desperately meet their basic needs. They were carpooling to work, obviously.

Can I assume you don't think those kids deserved a chance to drive around in a nice vehicle after watching thousands of ads telling them to grab all the gusto they can? Where did you get your PhD in basic needs?

 

[Indus]

One more time for the slow kids: you eliminate crime by making sure everyone's basic needs are met, not by punishing people desperate people doing desperate things. You want less crime? Stop voting for Republicans. If you think Republicans will lower crime rates you deserve everything you get.

Dude.. what is the basic need of the person shooting random people on a motorbike?

What's the basic need of those women harassing asians on a train?

The need to inflict pain and suffering!

You're not going to reason with these scum of the earth.. you have to be TOUGH ON CRIME!

 

[Moonbeam]

Of course meeting needs alone will not eliminate crime but it can definitely help. I think we should expand resources to the police as well but it has to be paired with accountability.

I think the best model would be for cities to follow Camden and disband/recreate their police departments to eliminate the unions. Only when they are out of the way can real progress be made.

I was watching YouTube last night. I find it interesting that the subject matter generally falls into various themes, one of which is were the presenter builds a following by having things of value he or she gives away for free. One such is a jewelry store owner who goes out on the streets of various cities and tries to give things away. Many many people would walk right by him when he tried to hand them an one oz. gold bar. He left a silver ingot on the street, I think in New York, which a tourist picked up in a matter of minutes but in Tokyo the only person who picked it up and looked at it put it right back down on the street.

I have heard you can leave your wallet in the middle of the street in Saudi Arabia and come back and get it the next day. On the surface one could say that fear of punishment or fear of shame is what prevents a lot of crime but there is also the question of whether it is morally proper to steal. I think that sometimes it is in dire situations but most of the time not, that there is a basic truth to be had. This leads me to the conclusion that the basic reward for a moral attitude toward the possessions of others is a function of self respect. 'Virtue is its own reward' a saying to which others not so inclined reply, 'virtue is its only reward', but in my opinion, that reward is known only to those who know it and it's huge. What is the value of life to those who have no self respect?

Anyway, my point, I guess, is that some cultures are less thief ridden than others, the difference being the culture itself not the race or genetics of the people.

 

[fskimospy]

I was watching YouTube last night. I find it interesting that the subject matter generally falls into various themes, one of which is were the presenter builds a following by having things of value he or she gives away for free. One such is a jewelry store owner who goes out on the streets of various cities and tries to give things away. Many many people would walk right by him when he tried to hand them an one oz. gold bar. He left a silver ingot on the street, I think in New York, which a tourist picked up in a matter of minutes but in Tokyo the only person who picked it up and looked at it put it right back down on the street.

I have heard you can leave your wallet in the middle of the street in Saudi Arabia and come back and get it the next day. On the surface one could say that fear of punishment or fear of shame is what prevents a lot of crime but there is also the question of whether it is morally proper to steal. I think that sometimes it is in dire situations but most of the time not, that there is a basic truth to be had. This leads me to the conclusion that the basic reward for a moral attitude toward the possessions of others is a function of self respect. 'Virtue is its own reward' a saying to which others not so inclined reply, 'virtue is its only reward', but in my opinion, that reward is known only to those who know it and it's huge. What is the value of life to those who have no self respect?

Anyway, my point, I guess, is that some cultures are less thief ridden than others, the difference being the culture itself not the race or genetics of the people.

They are a bit more into the ‘murder and then dismember with a bone saw’ than we are though so I guess cultures vary.

 

[Moonbeam]

Dude.. what is the basic need of the person shooting random people on a motorbike?

What's the basic need of those women harassing asians on a train?

The need to inflict pain and suffering!

You're not going to reason with these scum of the earth.. you have to be TOUGH ON CRIME!

Right, double lock the barn door after the horse escaped. It's conservatives that love low level thinking.

 

[fskimospy]

Dude.. what is the basic need of the person shooting random people on a motorbike?

What's the basic need of those women harassing asians on a train?

The need to inflict pain and suffering!

You're not going to reason with these scum of the earth.. you have to be TOUGH ON CRIME!

While it is true that some people are criminals no matter what the average person is not.

Also how much tougher on crime can America get? We have the most draconian criminal laws in the developed world. Where does it end?

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The real answer is to expand the police AND hold them accountable AND reduce criminal penalties as likelihood of being caught is a far greater deterrent than harsher sentences.

 

[Moonbeam]

They are a bit more into the ‘murder and then dismember with a bone saw’ than we are though so I guess cultures vary.

I liked your atypical liberal attitude toward police unions too. As Moonbeam would say, self hate corrupts everything. I notice the Police Unions aren't bragging about how they protect corrupt cops or the House of Saud publicly announcing how wonderful they are sawing up journalists. I think they know what they are.

 

[Moonbeam]

While it is true that some people are criminals no matter what the average person is not.

Also how much tougher on crime can America get? We have the most draconian criminal laws in the developed world. Where does it end?

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The real answer is to expand the police AND hold them accountable AND reduce criminal penalties as likelihood of being caught is a far greater deterrent than harsher sentences.

I think perhaps Americans have such draconian laws because the fear is inspired in good measure by the Private Prison Industry. The greater the number in jail the bigger the bottom line.

"Be very afraid and keep those laws coming."

 

[Indus]

While it is true that some people are criminals no matter what the average person is not.

Also how much tougher on crime can America get? We have the most draconian criminal laws in the developed world. Where does it end?

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The real answer is to expand the police AND hold them accountable AND reduce criminal penalties as likelihood of being caught is a far greater deterrent than harsher sentences.

You'll get no argument from me!

Lot more effective than the corruption down at City Hall and the Mayor's office.

 

[Drach]

NYC is one of the safest big cities in America - what planet are you living on?

NYC isn't even in the top 100 dangerous US cities.

 

[fskimospy]

I think perhaps Americans have such draconian laws because the fear is inspired in good measure by the Private Prison Industry. The greater the number in jail the bigger the bottom line.

"Be very afraid and keep those laws coming."

I tend to blame the media more for this. There’s a good book on this called ‘the culture of fear’.