Old Thread, New Title: Maybe dems should focus on getting tough on crime vs relying on karma!!!!

[Indus]

Victim of the son shot by the mass shooter..

Listen to what he says about crime in New York 2min in the video:

He's a lot more accurate than what you see soothing you and creating confirmation biases.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Victim of the son shot by the mass shooter..

Listen to what he says about crime in New York 2min in the video:

He's a lot more accurate than what you see soothing you and creating confirmation biases.

You never know when some random person will just start killing people randomly these days. I blame over population and an overabundance of guns. I dont remember it being this bad in 50+ years.

When people pop birthday balloons at work, we try to air them out quietly. A loud one going off usually makes most people jump in the otherwise quiet office. These days you always have to worry.

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm half-inclined to favour the death penalty for all driving-related offenses, including parking on the footway and failing to stop for pedestrians at zebra crossings. Also, for speeding, being on a public highway in a vehicle that has been improperly-taxed, and exceeding exhaust emissions limits.

For stealing a car a prison sentence would be sufficient - as long as you don't then obstruct a cycle lane - in which case it's "you have 30 seconds to comply" (sound of auto-cannons powering up).

However, as things are, the above would undoubtedly be enforced in a racially-discriminatory manner, so reluctantly I have to back off from my hard-line stance.

Its a bit odd to say but there are two freakonomics podcasts dedicated to exploring the idea that the best way to kill someone is to run them over with your car. Simply put the victim isn't around to defend themselves, and only the perpetrator's account ends up having any credence. If you look at US pedestrian fatalities, the driver is almost never charged making it the perfect crime.

Since we have 7000 US pedestrian fatalities per year and its rising and researchers generally feel these accidents are due to driver error almost everytime* I agree that we should change the burden of proof to the driver has to prove he was innocent and couldn't avoid this situation vs the opposite where we have to prove they were guilty.

*the number of times a driver hits a stationary object like a car, signpost, tree etc is staggeringly higher than the 7000 times they kill pedestrians for example. These are immobile objects that drivers can't seem to avoid, talk less people who are walking

 

[pmv]

Its a bit odd to say but there are two freakonomics podcasts dedicated to exploring the idea that the best way to kill someone is to run them over with your car. Simply put the victim isn't around to defend themselves, and only the perpetrator's account ends up having any credence. If you look at US pedestrian fatalities, the driver is almost never charged making it the perfect crime.

Since we have 7000 US pedestrian fatalities per year and its rising and researchers generally feel these accidents are due to driver error almost everytime* I agree that we should change the burden of proof to the driver has to prove he was innocent and couldn't avoid this situation vs the opposite where we have to prove they were guilty.

*the number of times a driver hits a stationary object like a car, signpost, tree etc is staggeringly higher than the 7000 times they kill pedestrians for example. These are immobile objects that drivers can't seem to avoid, talk less people who are walking

I know that in this country the Crown Prosecution Service tends to downgrade charges from "death by dangerous driving" to "death by careless driving" because it's much easier to get juries to convict on the latter (which carries much lower penalties). Juries tend to be full of crap drivers, who set a very low bar for the 'reasonable standard of driving'.

Furthermore, it's vanishingly rare for anyone to ever get the maximum sentence for death by dangerous or careless driving. It almost never happens, even when drivers are driving a stolen car, while on drugs, on the wrong side of the road, while speeding when they kill someone.

There are just so many cases out there of drivers getting away with it on the flimsiest of excuses ('the sun was in my eyes' being a common one, as if the presence of the sun in the sky came as a surprise to them.)

 

[HomerJS]

I hate to bring facts into a propaganda war but Jacksonville Fla which is a red city until a recently elected Dem mayor has a per capita gun death rate more than 2x that of NYC

 

[Indus]

Stabbing of an uber driver..

 

[UNCjigga]

I still don’t understand the point of this thread.

 

[fskimospy]

I know that in this country the Crown Prosecution Service tends to downgrade charges from "death by dangerous driving" to "death by careless driving" because it's much easier to get juries to convict on the latter (which carries much lower penalties). Juries tend to be full of crap drivers, who set a very low bar for the 'reasonable standard of driving'.

Furthermore, it's vanishingly rare for anyone to ever get the maximum sentence for death by dangerous or careless driving. It almost never happens, even when drivers are driving a stolen car, while on drugs, on the wrong side of the road, while speeding when they kill someone.

There are just so many cases out there of drivers getting away with it on the flimsiest of excuses ('the sun was in my eyes' being a common one, as if the presence of the sun in the sky came as a surprise to them.)

I don't know what sort of communist British thing a 'footway' is (surprised it isn't spelled with like 7 U's) but assuming you mean the sidewalk if we executed every person who parked on the sidewalk in NYC that would mean executing about 85% of the NYPD.

 

[Drach]

Ok grandpa. It's time for your nap.

 

[Indus]

I still don’t understand the point of this thread.

The moment we realize the local city councils and mayors have done something wrong with the no cash bail and expanded pre-trial release for a variety of misdemeanor and felony charges...

we'll take a step forward in the right direction and NYC will start being a dem stronghold again instead of losing safe districts to the GOP.

Unless you prefer to just ignore the rising sentiment that's putting us at risk of a GOP trifecta takeover.

 

[brycejones]

I still don’t understand the point of this thread.

The op has fallen down a rabbit hole.

 

[Indus]

The op has fallen down a rabbit hole.

Funny because you apparently missed this:



Now you can be like midnight and call me names all you want.. I'll just put you on ignore as I don't want to discuss personal insults.

Or you can use your brain for 30 seconds and ask yourself..
have I ever sided with Q or Trump or GOP or any of their candidates?

The answer is no,
and the reason I made this thread
is I don't want my to see state flip red.

But it happened in at least 4 districts and there's only 2 ways to explain the flip happening..

1. people went down the rabbit hole or
2. the people had actual concerns about safety..

I'll leave the answer to you to figure out..




And as a side note about rabbit hole theories.. I heard a really funny one.. a bit too rabbit hole even for me...

"The liberals moved out of NY during COVID and went to other states, but they left the criminals here.. and they're running wild especially as the mayor is corrupt and embezzling our tax money for himself and his pals.. so not enough cops to go around"

Didn't hear that on QAnon, Twitter, Fox, Newsmax.. heard it from my neighborhood grocery store owner while I was buying milk. /shrug

 

[cytg111]

No the point of this thread is that the left cant ignore the cultural temperature, as misaligned or misunderstood or having its roots in malignant disinformation campaigns on the right as it may be, what is is what is, so if Fox has managed to convince a majority of the voting block that dems are weak on crime, you have to act accordingly, at least until you can turn it around. Bob and weave.

 

[Indus]

No the point of this thread is that the left cant ignore the cultural temperature, as misaligned or misunderstood or having its roots in malignant disinformation campaigns on the right as it may be, what is is what is, so if Fox has managed to convince a majority of the voting block that dems are weak on crime, you have to act accordingly, at least until you can turn it around. Bob and weave.

Hmm...

New York Democrats lost the crime debate. They want a redo.

Gov. Kathy Hochul's new state bail law will give judges greater authority to decide whether an individual can be held on bail.

www.politico.com

Maybe you're right!

 

[brycejones]

Funny because you apparently missed this:

View attachment 82923

Now you can be like midnight and call me names all you want.. I'll just put you on ignore as I don't want to discuss personal insults.

Or you can use your brain for 30 seconds and ask yourself..
have I ever sided with Q or Trump or GOP or any of their candidates?

The answer is no,
and the reason I made this thread
is I don't want my to see state flip red.

But it happened in at least 4 districts and there's only 2 ways to explain the flip happening..

1. people went down the rabbit hole or
2. the people had actual concerns about safety..

I'll leave the answer to you to figure out..




And as a side note about rabbit hole theories.. I heard a really funny one.. a bit too rabbit hole even for me...

"The liberals moved out of NY during COVID and went to other states, but they left the criminals here.. and they're running wild especially as the mayor is corrupt and embezzling our tax money for himself and his pals.. so not enough cops to go around"

Didn't hear that on QAnon, Twitter, Fox, Newsmax.. heard it from my neighborhood grocery store owner while I was buying milk. /shrug

/shrug indeed

you do you

 

[UNCjigga]

I think OP should clarify he’s taking issue with Albany or NYC-area local officials vs. “Democrats in general”. OP should also clarify what those specific policies are. Last I checked, NYC’s mayor doesn’t seem to be the “soft on crime” type.

Also, FWIW, most of us understand no-cash bail would apply to misdemeanors or non-violent offenses only, so I have no idea what any of your anecdotal incidents have to do with the policy in general.

Less economic opportunity and rising inflation is what’s leading higher rates of crime nationwide—which is primarily property crime/theft related and outside a few hotspots, not representing a national trend to rising violent crime.

 

[UNCjigga]

Funny, the last data I had seen suggested that while violent crime stayed low in 2021-2022, murders were spiking nationwide. Not sure if this was being driven by more guns/more shootings.

Well guess what—looks like the murder rate is dropping precipitously in 2023–at least 12 percent across 90 US cities in the first half of the year. And guess who’s leading the way with 13% less murder and 25% fewer shootings??

New York City.

The Murder Rate Is Suddenly Falling

The first five months of 2023 have produced an encouraging overall trend for the first time in years.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[dank69]

I don't know what sort of communist British thing a 'footway' is (surprised it isn't spelled with like 7 U's) but assuming you mean the sidewalk if we executed every person who parked on the sidewalk in NYC that would mean executing about 85% of the NYPD.

Don't really care about sidewalks but that sounds like a win-win for everyone.

 

[dank69]

Funny, the last data I had seen suggested that while violent crime stayed low in 2021-2022, murders were spiking nationwide. Not sure if this was being driven by more guns/more shootings.

Well guess what—looks like the murder rate is dropping precipitously in 2023–at least 12 percent across 90 US cities in the first half of the year. And guess who’s leading the way with 13% less murder and 25% fewer shootings??

New York City.

The Murder Rate Is Suddenly Falling

The first five months of 2023 have produced an encouraging overall trend for the first time in years.

www.theatlantic.com

Yeah but if it isn't zero then people like the OP can be manipulated into shitting their pants with individual data points.

 

[Indus]

I think OP should clarify he’s taking issue with Albany or NYC-area local officials vs. “Democrats in general”. OP should also clarify what those specific policies are. Last I checked, NYC’s mayor doesn’t seem to be the “soft on crime” type.

Also, FWIW, most of us understand no-cash bail would apply to misdemeanors or non-violent offenses only, so I have no idea what any of your anecdotal incidents have to do with the policy in general.

Less economic opportunity and rising inflation is what’s leading higher rates of crime nationwide—which is primarily property crime/theft related and outside a few hotspots, not representing a national trend to rising violent crime.

NYC area and Albany dems.

Funny, the last data I had seen suggested that while violent crime stayed low in 2021-2022, murders were spiking nationwide. Not sure if this was being driven by more guns/more shootings.

Well guess what—looks like the murder rate is dropping precipitously in 2023–at least 12 percent across 90 US cities in the first half of the year. And guess who’s leading the way with 13% less murder and 25% fewer shootings??

New York City.

The Murder Rate Is Suddenly Falling

The first five months of 2023 have produced an encouraging overall trend for the first time in years.

www.theatlantic.com

I think @cytg111 is right.. can't ignore political temperature and winds as the dems strategy here of look at numbers isn't working in the minds of regular dem voters.

They are beginning to think its cooked up numbers by the corrupt mayor.

The biggest complaint by the people (not me mind you) is the police not being able to do something about the massive invasion of unregistered ATV/ ebikes/ scooters blocking roads and speeding on sidewalks used to commit crimes such as robberies, shootings and just flee..

You'd think if it was Fox sending them down a rabbit hole it would be massive invasion by people from the border.. but it's just the mayor complaining about not having money.. people don't say anything about that.. but they have a whole lot to say about his failure to tamp down crime.


This is the most liberal publication in NYC and even it is addressing things like these:

Majority of New Yorkers are worried about becoming crime victims; many have bought a gun for protection: poll

More than 60% of New Yorkers are worried they’re destined to become a victim of a crime and have taken steps to better protect themselves — including purchasing a gun, according to a ne…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[cytg111]

So caught this in context of Ukraine but it pertains to this thread as well.
Beau is basically outing a conservative? disinformation campaign that will distort any information that exists in a vacuum, in this context US soldiers in Ukraine.
So why do I consume information about this concerted disinformation operation on the right when I am def. not in that particular information silo? Cause of the Venn diagram where Ukraine intersect both left and right.

A concerted persistent campaign to distort and misrepresent the truth. Straight up lie and gaslight the masses.
It goes without saying that this is not exclusive to information about Ukraine.
Hunter Biden
Vaccine
Dems weak on crime
Dems weak on border
Etc etc etc.

We all know this is happening, but perhaps not to the extent that its actually operating.

Its also why I think its wrong to chop off his head when someone comes in and asks about
the Hunter Biden whistleblower. Its not his fault.
You need to understand what kind of extremely effective propaganda and misinformation machine you’re up against. Its the machine you need to take down, not the cartmans felixes or even taj’s. IMO.

2:30

 

[Indus]

Cause:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687611502948429826

and effect:

NY’s Asian voters rejected Dems, backed Zeldin and GOP over crime, education

New York’s once blue leaning Asian voters — disgusted with crime, discrimination and bad education — have turned on the Democratic Party with a vengeance, a Post analysis of elect…

nypost.com

It's not Fox News propaganda anymore

 

[UNCjigga]

Sounds to me like the fascist tactic of dividing ethnic groups and pitting them against each other is working. GOP messaging is great at stoking fear and anger, and the fact they ran supporters on WeChat unopposed is just another Dem messaging failure.

Don't get me wrong--Dems are likely guilty of ignoring a constituency that they thought was "in the bag". But overall violent crime in NYC is still trending down (not sure about Chinatown) and the Supreme Court essentially nullified affirmative action so that's a moot point.

Hochul isn't even a real progressive--so not sure what the NYC Asian population is expecting of Zeldin vs. Hochul.

 

[Moonbeam]

Cause:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687611502948429826

and effect:

NY’s Asian voters rejected Dems, backed Zeldin and GOP over crime, education

New York’s once blue leaning Asian voters — disgusted with crime, discrimination and bad education — have turned on the Democratic Party with a vengeance, a Post analysis of elect…

nypost.com

It's not Fox News propaganda anymore

Fucking NYPost. Hehe

 

[fskimospy]

Cause:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687611502948429826

and effect:

NY’s Asian voters rejected Dems, backed Zeldin and GOP over crime, education

New York’s once blue leaning Asian voters — disgusted with crime, discrimination and bad education — have turned on the Democratic Party with a vengeance, a Post analysis of elect…

nypost.com

It's not Fox News propaganda anymore

Lol @ the Post.

It’s so weird that you have convinced yourself that NYC is not safe when it’s safer today than it’s been at almost any point in your entire life.