Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 36,351
- 10,658
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Mobility in this country translates into productivity. You want to gut that productivity then you're going to be gutting your own tax revenues. Just a fair warning.
Not to mention, how do you think the shelves at your store get stocked? The price of ALL goods will rise. The poor will become further impoverished when this cost you're mandating is passed onto the consumer.
BTW, another point I wanted to hit on. Our population is growing, thus our consumption is growing. These efforts to bring a car up to 42mpg will reduce the emissions from each vehicle, but we will have more vehicle on the road. Ergo, our total emissions will remain largely equal to our output today. How does maintaining our current emissions save the planet?
Sheik Yerbouti
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2005
- 14,080
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Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Even Honda's little Fit is a 2600lb car with all the safety equipment it has, I cannot see a gasoline engine pushing a 2600lb car and getting 42mpg. Especially since the EPA rates are based in traffic conditions and all accessories and AC running. He might as well come out and say everything has to be a hybrid if that 42mpg rumor is true, I think 42mpg sounds far fetched rumor though, lets wait and see the real number.
But maybe this administration figured out a way to *Change* the energy content of Gasoline
Its called technological improvements. The car companies and thier bed buddies big oil have been sitting on it for decades. Here is a small taste... more to come http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15153
Take that type of technology, improve upon it and there you go. 42mpg easy. Even more if it were hybridized.
Great move by Obama
^^^^^
This.
You use technology, not reduction in safety to improve mpg. Or start really backing Tesla motors ffs. You want speed? Check their coupe out, they're coming out with a sedan too.
We need to get our collective lips off of the fossil fuel tit once and for all.
The internal combustion engine is long overdue for retirement.
With freedom comes responsibility.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
The unconscious craving of the undisciplined is a strong hand.
We create what we fear.
We are the world. What you experience is who you are.
When mites eat the cheese and it collapses on them, oh how they curse their fate.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
The unconscious craving of the undisciplined is a strong hand.
We create what we fear.
We are the world. What you experience is who you are.
When mites eat the cheese and it collapses on them, oh how they curse their fate.
Just playing with words. To steer is to guide or drive, say a car, and it's also a castrated bull.
Moonbeam is prepared to demonize you simply because you don't hate yourself enough. Move along.
It is - we've had a "green tax" here in Ontario on gas guzzlers (starting at $1000 for above midsize SUVs) since 2007.
About time.
The problem is that people want, high gas mileage, good horsepower, comfortable, and safe vehicle and it is physically impossible to achieve all of these.
1. High gas mileage mean less horsepower and reducing the vehicle, which reducing its safety level. People don;t want that.
2. If people want a comfortable and safe vehicle, the vehicle has to be huge and heavy, thus reducing its mpg.
Oneof the funniest thing I heard is that some peoepl believe that ethanol is the future but the true is currently, ethanol is very expensive to made, hard to transport, not to mention has low power rating compare to gasoline. Thus, mandatory ethanol is one of the reason we got less mpg.
1. High gas mileage mean less horsepower and reducing the vehicle, which reducing its safety level. People don;t want that.
2. If people want a comfortable and safe vehicle, the vehicle has to be huge and heavy, thus reducing its mpg.
Oneof the funniest thing I heard is that some peoepl believe that ethanol is the future but the true is currently, ethanol is very expensive to made, hard to transport, not to mention has low power rating compare to gasoline. Thus, mandatory ethanol is one of the reason we got less mpg.
Industry would set the goal if that's what people wanted to buy. If people don't want to buy it, industry shouldn't make it. Instead, you're heaping inefficiency on inefficiency by forcing the industry to build cars that people don't want just to meet some arbitrary standard. Meanwhile, people are punished because they pay higher taxes to support these failing companies. It's not hard to see why a company fails when the government mandates that the company builds cars that people don't want. You accused industry of being myopic previously, yet the converse is the real problem here.
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
- 8,595
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it takes 4 years to design a car if you push it, so we've just cut it from 2 engineering cycles to 1. awesome.
building bigger and bigger rockets with little concern for expense or safety is not quite the same.
what's so shocking about wanting taxes out in the open rather than hidden?
moving on to how CAFE is actually calculated, realize that it is not calculated the same was as EPA fuel mileage. under 49 USC 32904(c) it's calculated the same way it was in 1975 with 55% urban cycle and 45% highway cycle weightings.
E85 capability is the key. under 49 USC 32905, first, a gallon of liquid alternative fuel is deemed to be .15 gallon of fuel (which is how much gas is in E85). so you multiply the E85 fuel mileage by 6.66... to get the mileage used for the calculation. then, you also get to assume they use E85 half the time, which almost none do. under 32905 (b) you divide 1 by ((.5 / gas mileage) + (.5 / E85 mileage).
so lets assume a car gets 25 mpg under E10 (which isn't alternative) and 15 under E85 (which is). 15 gets multiplied by 6.666667, which is 100 MPG. 1 / (.5 / 100 + .5 / 25) = 40 MPG.
under 2007 amendments, B20 is also considered an alternative fuel and gets the same .15 treatment as E85. that's a huge boon for diesel powered cars, and i'd expect B20 diesels to start showing up all over the place.
you can't just half-ass E85 though. the car must provide equal or superior energy efficiency on E85 as on gasoline. so likely, the example above where the car dropped nearly half it's mileage wouldn't cut it. but the more normal couple MPG drop would be ok. the above was showing just how much the law favors E85. (actual difference in practice is about 25.5%, so you'd go from 25 to 18.6 for a combined rating of 41.6 MPG)
plug in hybrids and electric cars, for the electric portion, get some number pulled out of a hat by the Administrator.
I dont understand how Obama can say that we will make up the additional costs becuase of the savings at pump.
Even if we are driving cars that are more fuel efficient, is he saying that price of gas is going to stay where it is?
I have a feeling that if the government starts recieving less revenue from gas taxes becuase of lower consumption, they will be eager to raise that gas tax, possibly negating any savings we see.
Again, I dont mind the new standard, I just dont agree that now is the right time to be raising our cost of living (along with UHC, Cap and Trade, etc).
Plus, if we really wanted to reduce our dependence on foriegn oil along with moving forward on alternative fuels, we should have been drilling our own oil years ago, allowing us the breathing room to really find the alternative fuel that will work and not having to rush into embracing whatever is on the table.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,390
- 29
- 91
Well I applaud Obama returning the automotive industry back to the glory days of the late 70's and 80's. Nothing excites buyers quite like "appliances". I look forward to the lefties choking on the unintended consequences of mandating these standards from a single engineering cycle: the proliferation of diesel burning engines in passenger vehicles.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,576
- 126
http://www.realclearpolitics.c...fuel_announcement.html
Obama blatantly skips over GM CEO during the handshaking...
Classy guy...
Obama blatantly skips over GM CEO during the handshaking...
Classy guy...
In the future people will look at threads like this and laugh in the same way they might have laughed last century at someone who insisted horses would always be better than cars.
The Jaguar X-type, the Toyota Avensis wagon, and the Audi diesel V8s all get better milage than this.
The Jaguar X-type, the Toyota Avensis wagon, and the Audi diesel V8s all get better milage than this.
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