Obama to unveil big increase in required mpg

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Atheus
The Jaguar X-type, the Toyota Avensis wagon, and the Audi diesel V8s all get better milage than this.

european emission standards are much more lax than north american standards.

the avensis forms the basis of the scion tc small car in NA, which gets 20/27 mpg. not exactly spectacular.



according to NHTSA report number DOT HS 806 971, the difference between CAFE rating and EPA rating was 15% for passenger cars, about that for 2wd trucks, and nearly 20% for 4wd trucks. those figures were for cars sold 1979-1981. with the recent changes in EPA reported mileage, the EPA figure is even further below the CAFE rating.

 

[Squisher]

You've got everybody throwing brickbats at the Chevy Volt, a $40K small car.

I have seen the future and it is Volt.



Start saving your pennies.

Buddy, can you spare some watts?

 

[trooper11]

Originally posted by: Atheus
In the future people will look at threads like this and laugh in the same way they might have laughed last century at someone who insisted horses would always be better than cars.

The Jaguar X-type, the Toyota Avensis wagon, and the Audi diesel V8s all get better milage than this.

i dont remember the part where the government propped up the 'horse' industry with bailouts and eventaully passing regulations to coax the 'horse' industry into making cars instead lol.

Your way overestimating the impact of just rasing some epa standards. Plus, based on the cars you listed, I know I wont be able to afford any of those options.

Again, if they really cared about us, all they would need to do is pick an alternative fuel (say electricity), put that into every car at the same price points we have now and in the same types of vehicles we have to choose from now. Problem solved, everyone call feel better about our environmental impact, we save money on gas, and cut our dependence on foriegn oil. If the government wants to get involved so badly, then just make that happen (Of course I relize this is impossible, the tech just isnt ready for prime time)

Oh and if they really want green cars to take off, they probably shouldnt tax the potential consumers.

 

[Genx87]

Sure they did. They took over the horse industry during the depression of 1923 and forced them to make more environmentally friendly horses. What they came up with was the miniature horse.

The rest was history.

 

[trooper11]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Sure they did. They took over the horse industry during the depression of 1923 and forced them to make more environmentally friendly horses. What they came up with was the miniature horse.

The rest was history.

Quote of the Thread!

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: IGBT
get ready for much higher fuel tax to make up for the lost revenue of "the required mpg" cars.

Nah they will change it from taxing fuel to taxing how many miles you drive.

some states will do both plus a carbon-con tax.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
http://www.realclearpolitics.c...fuel_announcement.html

Obama blatantly skips over GM CEO during the handshaking...

Classy guy...

My guess would be he wants to fire him too, but the backlash could be another step towards political suicide. I've felt from the beginning that Wagoner left because he knew that the demands of the administration on GM were not viable. He told Obama he was full of shit and hadn't a clue what he was talking about and they reached an agreement. It will look like I fired you and you get to keep your $22.6M pension.

I've said this before in these forums. IMO the GM bankruptcy will split the company into two entities. GM will fail and eventually file Chapter 7. The new company that emerges will in the end, not be based in the U.S. The handwriting is on the wall. The U.S. is a hostile place to do business. First one out is the biggest winner.

No surprise to me that Henderson didn't get a handshake.

 

[Matthiasa]

I take it that it's safe to say that anyone that used the 42mpg figure didn't read the article.

The are worse things though, higher fuel economy should offset the initial cost of the vehicle in the long term, assuming they jus don?t end up driving more.

 

[LTC8K6]

Oh the faux outrage

Outrage? Where?

Personally, I expect that sort of behavior from Obama, given his track record of boorishness, imo. So there's no reason I'd be outraged.

My guess is the admin will attempt to explain it away with some silly excuse, and make the situation worse, rather than just saying that Obama chose not to shake Henderson's hand.

Like when they claimed he didn't bow. Would have been much easier if they just said he bowed as a sign of respect to a fellow state leader.

It's okay with me if he doesn't want to shake the guy's hand, but show a little class.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Uh....

Why the hell is the US government involved in mandating MPG?

because US dependence on foreign oil means the terrorist win.

I don't suppose an option would be to use our own oil?

Please not 'drill baby drill'. Even if we did we'd barely dent our imports.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: IGBT
get ready for much higher fuel tax to make up for the lost revenue of "the required mpg" cars.

So? Our fuel taxes/prices are among the lowest in the world.

 

[LTC8K6]

Please not 'drill baby drill'. Even if we did we'd barely dent our imports.

Converting every vehicle to run on dreams and wishes tomorrow would not stop our petroleum imports...

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

Please not 'drill baby drill'. Even if we did we'd barely dent our imports.

Converting every vehicle to run on dreams and wishes tomorrow would not stop our petroleum imports...

:roll:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: boomerang
The new company that emerges will in the end, not be based in the U.S. The handwriting is on the wall. The U.S. is a hostile place to do business. First one out is the biggest winner.

Very well said.

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Converting every vehicle to run on dreams and wishes tomorrow would not stop our petroleum imports...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: sandorski
A goal has been set. A Goal that the Industry had no intention of setting. They'll achieve it, because they have to.

Industry would set the goal if that's what people wanted to buy. If people don't want to buy it, industry shouldn't make it. Instead, you're heaping inefficiency on inefficiency by forcing the industry to build cars that people don't want just to meet some arbitrary standard. Meanwhile, people are punished because they pay higher taxes to support these failing companies. It's not hard to see why a company fails when the government mandates that the company builds cars that people don't want. You accused industry of being myopic previously, yet the converse is the real problem here.

Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want. The American people are a pack of programmed buying sheep that spend on junk they don't need because they are impelled by that programming to do just that. We have spent trillions of hours watching ads. Wake the fuck up. You haven't the faintest idea what YOU want. You don't even know who YOU are.

Oh, and I do know where you get the ridiculous ideas. They are part of the program too.

Give me a hot chick with swollen lips and a dilated pupil in her left eye and I can make you want to drive a Tonka toy.

 

[jpeyton]

Awesome :thumbsup:

 

[theeedude]

I am guessing that number is what it took to get California to sign on. Otherwise we would maintain the different Federal and CA requirements. Automakers want unified standards, but that means having a tougher unified standard that fits all states.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Drako
LOL @ 42 MPG. Why didn't they just come out and say that you will only buy a Prius or Insight in 2016.

I would hope that other companies would compete ..if they choose not to i guess that might be true

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Drako
LOL @ 42 MPG. Why didn't they just come out and say that you will only buy a Prius or Insight in 2016.

The Insight doesn't make the cut (41 mpg "combined"), though the Civic hybrid does (or did in '08).

If the cost of gas warrants going to such mileage requirements, then people will demand it of their own accord. This happened last summer when Prius sales went through the roof. To say that government should dictate what kind of cars I can buy, let alone what kind of cars struggling companies can produce, is a recipe for failure.

What if the factors that effect people in their daily lives are NOT the only factors that effect the health of the industry or country?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: sandorski
A goal has been set. A Goal that the Industry had no intention of setting. They'll achieve it, because they have to.

Industry would set the goal if that's what people wanted to buy. If people don't want to buy it, industry shouldn't make it. Instead, you're heaping inefficiency on inefficiency by forcing the industry to build cars that people don't want just to meet some arbitrary standard. Meanwhile, people are punished because they pay higher taxes to support these failing companies. It's not hard to see why a company fails when the government mandates that the company builds cars that people don't want. You accused industry of being myopic previously, yet the converse is the real problem here.

Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want. The American people are a pack of programmed buying sheep that spend on junk they don't need because they are impelled by that programming to do just that. We have spent trillions of hours watching ads. Wake the fuck up. You haven't the faintest idea what YOU want. You don't even know who YOU are.

Oh, and I do know where you get the ridiculous ideas. They are part of the program too.

Give me a hot chick with swollen lips and a dilated pupil in her left eye and I can make you want to drive a Tonka toy.

Give me a figurine that vaguely resembles a woman and I'll do the same.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: sandorski
A goal has been set. A Goal that the Industry had no intention of setting. They'll achieve it, because they have to.

Industry would set the goal if that's what people wanted to buy. If people don't want to buy it, industry shouldn't make it. Instead, you're heaping inefficiency on inefficiency by forcing the industry to build cars that people don't want just to meet some arbitrary standard. Meanwhile, people are punished because they pay higher taxes to support these failing companies. It's not hard to see why a company fails when the government mandates that the company builds cars that people don't want. You accused industry of being myopic previously, yet the converse is the real problem here.

Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want. The American people are a pack of programmed buying sheep that spend on junk they don't need because they are impelled by that programming to do just that. We have spent trillions of hours watching ads. Wake the fuck up. You haven't the faintest idea what YOU want. You don't even know who YOU are.

Oh, and I do know where you get the ridiculous ideas. They are part of the program too.

Give me a hot chick with swollen lips and a dilated pupil in her left eye and I can make you want to drive a Tonka toy.

is everything a conspiracy with you? If you are so unhappy here, why don't you move to someplace where you are not so paranoid?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Negative. People won't stop buying Cars. It's not as if only US Automaker(s) will be subject to the regulations.

You're right: people will just buy cars that these standards don't apply to, thereby making the situation worse rather than better.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
What if the factors that effect people in their daily lives are NOT the only factors that effect the health of the industry or country?

The mileage of cars has absolutely nothing to do with the "health of the country." That's an absurd notion. However, if people want higher-mileage vehicles, then the companies offering such vehicles will stand to profit a great deal. On the other hand, if people don't want high mileage vehicles due to decreased performance, then the people suffer if only such vehicles are offered by industry due to government mandate.

 

[SagaLore]

We have technologies that could give us cars with 100mpg.

Its just that nobody wants to spend the money on completely refitting our infrastructure from manufacturing to repair shops.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
We have technologies that could give us cars with 100mpg.

Its just that nobody wants to spend the money on completely refitting our infrastructure from manufacturing to repair shops.

link???