Obama to unveil big increase in required mpg

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why, he was just a part of the debacle.

Because he's always a part of your debate, it will save you time.

You're the one that brought up his name, not me.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
More pages of right wing whining. I love it. Now it's all a conspiracy to make Americans into un-individualist Soviet workers, to castrate the American sense of independence, to drive all industry out of America so we are surfs of our hippie overlords. The right sounds like delirious dinosaurs, scared of any change to the status quo. But they are first to complain about our dependence on "Muslim Terrorist" or "Commie Chavez" oil. More drilling in America would have a minute dent on our oil inputs. But why use science, facts, and simple arithmetic when you can sputter emotive whining about the Libruls.

Well after 8 years of ineptitude from their party it's understandable why they feel we might not be capable of doing great things anymore.

Red your signature should say "but Bush...."

Why, he was just a part of the debacle.

Because he's always a part of your debate, it will save you time.

You mean like yours does? You know - letting everyone know you're a moron.

 

[bozack]

No surprise here, this will just raise the cost of vehicles and further the punishment on the middle to lower middle class, as someone who enjoys performance oriented vehicles I feel this sucks but whatever, the media has demonized anyone who owns a larger car and is on the warpath for those who leave a big carbon footprint so it shouldn't be any surprise that the future will be smart cars or the like...

Even the airport terminal I frequent now has "special" parking for hybrids only.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
All your saying to me is that you'd be miserable and paranoid if you could see what I see. The fact is that I see what I see because I'm not miserable or paranoid.

you are just like the apple dude in Die Hard 4 trying to explain this exact same crap to Bruce Willis. you should see how laughable it is, but that probably won't happen anytime soon because you see the 'truth'...

Is there some super secret 'illumanti' or 'x-file' type organization that controls every thing that happens to us 'sheeple'??? Damn them for making us buy Ipods and Sony products!!!!

But Moonbeam will rat out this conspiracy and opression, and save us so we can become truly free!!!!

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
good. Hopefully this will eliminate the SUV as a viable product.

Not all SUVs are your enemy

So they aren't...

Wider and higher than the average car so I can't see around/through when I'm behind them
Higher than the average car so the collision impact is higher
Heavier than the average car so they apply more force in a collision
More top heavy and prone to rollover than the average car

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This is a perfect example of Democrats stepping on our personal freedoms in the name of 'social good'

:roll:

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
good. Hopefully this will eliminate the SUV as a viable product.

Not all SUVs are your enemy

So they aren't...

Wider and higher than the average car so I can't see around/through when I'm behind them
Higher than the average car so the collision impact is higher
Heavier than the average car so they apply more force in a collision
More top heavy and prone to rollover than the average car

the thing I hate most about SUV's is that it seems everytime I am making a left turn at an interesection, there is always another SUV making a left from the opposite way so he is blocking my view of oncoming traffic...There is no way to see around those damn things...

If you try and inch out to see around it, you are practically in the opposite lane...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

is everything a conspiracy with you? If you are so unhappy here, why don't you move to someplace where you are not so paranoid?

being inundated with advertising all your life isn't a conspiracy.

so all of the manufacturers out there are in kahootz with each other to determine which ads we see and don't see???

did you even bother reading what i wrote?

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

is everything a conspiracy with you? If you are so unhappy here, why don't you move to someplace where you are not so paranoid?

being inundated with advertising all your life isn't a conspiracy.

so all of the manufacturers out there are in kahootz with each other to determine which ads we see and don't see???

did you even bother reading what i wrote?

did you even bother reading what I was replying to?

In case you missed it:

Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This is a perfect example of Democrats stepping on our personal freedoms in the name of 'social good'

:roll:

Perhaps you don't understand the concept.

Nearly every article about this talks about how it will force car makers to change the cars they make in order to meet these standards.

Thus people who want to buy sports cars or large SUVs will find it harder or more expensive to do so.

The only reason they are raising these standards and including green house gas rules is to fight 'global warming.' If this was about using less oil then these same Democrats would be pushing for us to build more nuclear power plants.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

is everything a conspiracy with you? If you are so unhappy here, why don't you move to someplace where you are not so paranoid?

being inundated with advertising all your life isn't a conspiracy.

so all of the manufacturers out there are in kahootz with each other to determine which ads we see and don't see???

did you even bother reading what i wrote?

did you even bother reading what I was replying to?

In case you missed it:

Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want.

where does the conspiracy come in?

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

People's actions and desires are easily manipulated. Who better to make you want something than those selling it to you.
http://video.google.com/videop...id=8953172273825999151

 

[Muse]

I'm totally :thumbsup: to Obama on this. He's not only laid it on the line for the auto industry, he's brought practically all the concerned parties (car companies, environmentalists...) into the same room and has them endorsing the plan. Pretty damn impressive. He said before being sworn in "I'm not a car guy" (meaning he never trips on himself at the wheel of a _____). Alright!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

uh, no

 

[GuitarDaddy]

All the pro CAFE mpg rating posters in this thread act if they are the only ones that realize we must reduce emmissions and our dependancy on foreign oil And that all those against these standards are gaz guzzlers with no regard for the environment.

You guys must belong to the "any action is better than no action" club, because the CAFE standards are a broken, failed, ill conceived policy that have contributed to the demise of the big three. Keeping the same basic structure and just upping the numbers is incredibly short sided and irresponsible and is a clear move to try and preserve status quo for the UAW.

I think you guys defending this broken policy are the real tree killers because it will do nothing but promote more of the same at a higher cost and will ultimately delay our conversion to a cleaner more efficeint fuel source.

The government should be focusing on building a plan to transition the country to the next generation of vehiciles and building the infrastruce necessary to support them, be it CNG,hydrogen,electric,hybrid. NOT running car companies or dictating what type petrol vehicles should be built.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
All the pro CAFE mpg rating posters in this thread act if they are the only ones that realize we must reduce emmissions and our dependancy on foreign oil And that all those against these standards are gaz guzzlers with no regard for the environment.

You guys must belong to the "any action is better than no action" club, because the CAFE standards are a broken, failed, ill conceived policy that have contributed to the demise of the big three. Keeping the same basic structure and just upping the numbers is incredibly short sided and irresponsible and is a clear move to try and preserve status quo for the UAW.

I think you guys defending this broken policy are the real tree killers because it will do nothing but promote more of the same at a higher cost and will ultimately delay our conversion to a cleaner more efficeint fuel source.

The government should be focusing on building a plan to transition the country to the next generation of vehiciles and building the infrastruce necessary to support them, be it CNG,hydrogen,electric,hybrid. NOT running car companies or dictating what type petrol vehicles should be built.

Why the distinction? What vehicles are being built bears some relation to the goals of achieving reduced emissions and fuel consumption. Your approach is schizophrenic in the extreme.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

uh, no

so we do have free will to buy what we want??? I thought Moonbeam told me I don't have a choice. Who makes my choice for me?? and why do they make me want to buy Ipods so much??

or are you really just trying to say that alot of companies advertise their products and consumers use these advertisements to make a decision on what they want to buy for themselves. This kinda sounds like they have choice of whether to buy an Ipod or a Zune. Where is the lack of freewill here? But in yours and Moonbeam's mind, this is brainwashing?? And if you think they are brainwashing us sheeple consumers, that almost sounds like a conspiracy...

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Still don't understand why people are so against this. As mentioned 35MPG is the same standard set by the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which updated CAFE standards for the first time in a long time. It sounds like the deadline is simply being moved up slightly. Don't forget that the Energy Independence and Security Act received broad bipartisan support in Congress and was then signed into law by President Bush. It also seems like the automakers are supportive of this new requirement, as it's better than the alternatives that California and other states were seeking.

because the end result of car that gets 42MPG is not the product that american consumers want...

Detroit has decades of experience in building cars Americans don't want, so I guess Obama figures the new CAFE rules play to their strength (such as it is).

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Even Honda's little Fit is a 2600lb car with all the safety equipment it has, I cannot see a gasoline engine pushing a 2600lb car and getting 42mpg. Especially since the EPA rates are based in traffic conditions and all accessories and AC running. He might as well come out and say everything has to be a hybrid if that 42mpg rumor is true, I think 42mpg sounds far fetched rumor though, lets wait and see the real number.

But maybe this administration figured out a way to *Change* the energy content of Gasoline

Its called technological improvements. The car companies and thier bed buddies big oil have been sitting on it for decades. Here is a small taste... more to come http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15153

Take that type of technology, improve upon it and there you go. 42mpg easy. Even more if it were hybridized.

Great move by Obama

^^^^^
This.
You use technology, not reduction in safety to improve mpg. Or start really backing Tesla motors ffs. You want speed? Check their coupe out, they're coming out with a sedan too.
We need to get our collective lips off of the fossil fuel tit once and for all.
The internal combustion engine is long overdue for retirement.

Putting a smaller displacement engine into a vehicle with a turbocharger is a new technology?

And we'll see when the EPA gets their hands on it if it gets a 10-20% gain like Ford thinks it will.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

uh, no

so we do have free will to buy what we want??? I thought Moonbeam told me I don't have a choice. Who makes my choice for me?? and why do they make me want to buy Ipods so much??

or are you really just trying to say that alot of companies advertise their products and consumers use these advertisements to make a decision on what they want to buy for themselves. This kinda sounds like they have choice of whether to buy an Ipod or a Zune. Where is the lack of freewill here? But in yours and Moonbeam's mind, this is brainwashing?? And if you think they are brainwashing us sheeple consumers, that almost sounds like a conspiracy...

So is it a conspiracy or does it just almost sound like one. We Illuminati are want to say that unless you empty your tea cup, no fresh new tea can be poured in it. But my mastery of Zen provides different wisdom in your case. "A stick up your ass will make it impossible to rationally think so until you pull the stick out of your ass you are in deep doo doo.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

uh, no

so we do have free will to buy what we want??? I thought Moonbeam told me I don't have a choice. Who makes my choice for me?? and why do they make me want to buy Ipods so much??

or are you really just trying to say that alot of companies advertise their products and consumers use these advertisements to make a decision on what they want to buy for themselves. This kinda sounds like they have choice of whether to buy an Ipod or a Zune. Where is the lack of freewill here? But in yours and Moonbeam's mind, this is brainwashing?? And if you think they are brainwashing us sheeple consumers, that almost sounds like a conspiracy...

So is it a conspiracy or does it just almost sound like one. We Illuminati are want to say that unless you empty your tea cup, no fresh new tea can be poured in it. But my mastery of Zen provides different wisdom in your case. "A stick up your ass will make it impossible to rationally think so until you pull the stick out of your ass you are in deep doo doo.

Please tell what color ipod are they gonna make me buy...U did say I don't have a choice, didn't you???

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: ElFenix

where does the conspiracy come in?

so apparently we only being bombarded with the ads of what they want us to buy, not what we want...so who controls what ads we see and don't see??? surely it must be the free masons or some secret society that is controlling our media and only allows us to see what they want us to see...

uh, no

so we do have free will to buy what we want??? I thought Moonbeam told me I don't have a choice. Who makes my choice for me?? and why do they make me want to buy Ipods so much??

or are you really just trying to say that alot of companies advertise their products and consumers use these advertisements to make a decision on what they want to buy for themselves. This kinda sounds like they have choice of whether to buy an Ipod or a Zune. Where is the lack of freewill here? But in yours and Moonbeam's mind, this is brainwashing?? And if you think they are brainwashing us sheeple consumers, that almost sounds like a conspiracy...

So is it a conspiracy or does it just almost sound like one. We Illuminati are want to say that unless you empty your tea cup, no fresh new tea can be poured in it. But my mastery of Zen provides different wisdom in your case. "A stick up your ass will make it impossible to rationally think so until you pull the stick out of your ass you are in deep doo doo.

Please tell what color ipod are they gonna make me buy...U did say I don't have a choice, didn't you???

You can't even chose to function with half your wits. Try to understand that the interpretations you place on what I and El have said, and thus the questions you ask, are utterly stupid. Pull the stick out of your ass.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
All your saying to me is that you'd be miserable and paranoid if you could see what I see. The fact is that I see what I see because I'm not miserable or paranoid.

LSD makes people see things too. Doesn't make their visions reality.

People say the believe what they see, but I believe that, in fact, they see what they already believe, that people live in the delusions they have had programmed into them, an unconscious world of unexamined assumptions. It isn't just a matter of what people see, but how they understand the vision, how they react, whether with conscious awareness or unconscious bias, a program.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

You can't even chose to function with half your wits. Try to understand that the interpretations you place on what I and El have said, and thus the questions you ask, are utterly stupid. Pull the stick out of your ass.

Here is your EXACT quote:

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Where do people get these ridiculous notions they have free will and buy the products they want.

Exactly which part am I misinterpreting??? According to this, someone is making my choice for me?? After all, I have all this stuff in my house, but according to you, I did not buy it under my free will. I thought I wanted it, but according to you, that is a ridiculous notion.

Surely, it can't be as simple as me seeing an ad for it and thinking to myself, "Hey, I want that!" and I go out and buy it. Nope, according to you, I was 'brainwashed by the trillions of hours of ads I watched on TV and they made me buy it...This is what makes me laugh...

How does your statement of no free will because I am brain washed by all of these TV commercials apply to whether I buy a Honda or a Ford? A PC or a Mac? An ipod or zune? McDonalds or Burger King? Help me understand my I have no free will in these choices...