NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[Svnla]

No one knows how long it will last because a) the virus hasn't been around long enough to gauge very long-term immunity (current reports put immunity at about 8 months minimum for most) and b) the vaccine has not been used for a long enough time period to gauge. We don't even have proper evidence yet for whether the vaccines prevent asymptomatic disease.

Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.

Possibly never if it ends the pandemic.

Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.

 

[K1052]

My wife got the Pfizer vaccine 3 weeks ago and was told she could get her 2nd shot today. Due to availability at the time, she drove 20 minutes away to a hospital in a neighboring city to get it for the first round.

She and some colleagues went this morning to a local vax center by the same group and asked for a booster. They were all turned away and told they were only allowed to give shots from the same lot. I suppose that's for the sake of liability or QC if there were some manufacturing snafu. Anyhow, she's going to wait until Monday to get it and will return to the original location. This is likely one of those logistics issues that we're seeing with the distribution. They give half the vaccines and have to wait 3-4 weeks to give the other half. That means they are sitting on 50% of vaccines in cold storage and waiting for people to come back to free up space. I understand there are up to 7 doses per vial, but there's still quite a bit of space required to store those. As distribution of the Pfizer vaccine moves forward, I'm guessing you'll either see them get lax with that policy or they'll move away from it entirely. They're going to accrue too many different lots/doses and deal with indexing them once they try to find the lot a particular recipient needs.

I've seen people posting pics of their vaccination cards detailing the shots were from different lots. I think it is more an issue of keeping track of where 2nd doses need to be and when for logistics purposes.

 

[Brainonska511]

Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.



Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.

The problem for influenza is two fold: a wide variety of circulating strains and a vaccine that presents the immune system with a viral region undergoing moderately frequent mutation (mainly due to the lack of proofreading in the influenza polymerase). The latter issue means that you don't really get broad immunity to all influenzas with a single vaccine. Thus, we get an influenza vaccine yearly based on the strains predicted to be prevalent for the upcoming season.

From what I've seen to date, these influenza issues are not an issue with the coronavirus vaccine. The coronavirus polymerase, which is responsible for copying its genetic material, has proofreading, which substantially reduces its mutation frequency. And when you get vaccinated, your body makes a number of different antibodies against the target, so a single mutation in the spike protein will probably be ineffective at giving the virus some immune-escape capabilities.

So really, the only issue is 'how long will immunity last', and that will simply take time to figure that out.

 

[Ajay]

My FIL (89 yo) had Covid with mild symptoms and has now recovered (+14 days and negative test). The memory care facility he is in lost about 1/3 of their residents. I didn't post earlier because I just couldn't talk about it - 9 months of hardly seeing him (except on Zoom) made the possible loss too emotional. Per his will, we are only allowed to put him in hospice if he has a potentially fatal disease. Cannot imagine what it is like for those who go through this but lose their loved one. It's just horrible because we want someone to be with him everyday in these circumstances and can't.

 

[K1052]

My FIL (89 yo) had Covid with mild symptoms and has now recovered (+14 days and negative test). The memory care facility he is in lost about 1/3 of their residents. I didn't post earlier because I just couldn't talk about it - 9 months of hardly seeing him (except on Zoom) made the possible loss too emotional. Per his will, we are only allowed to put him in hospice if he has a potentially fatal disease. Cannot imagine what it is like for those who go through this but lose their loved one. It's just horrible because we want someone to be with him everyday in these circumstances and can't.

n/m misread

This kind of thing has been my deepest fear for months.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I've seen people posting pics of their vaccination cards detailing the shots were from different lots. I think it is more an issue of keeping track of where 2nd doses need to be and when for logistics purposes.

That's what my wife said. She thought it was lack of robustness in the local hospital system that's delivering the vaccine but they were told the lots had to match by the staff (which may have just been a stupid nurse).

 

[CZroe]

Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.



Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.

Depends. Do people still need yearly vaccinations for the last SARS Coronavirus? No, because it was completely stopped. There's a good chance that this one can be completely stopped too if everyone gets their immunity fast enough, before it has the chance to become varied enough to escape existing immunity and becomes endemic.

IOW, it may burn itself out before it changes enough to reinfect people with existing immunity. Heck, even if it does change and become endemic with enough ever-changing variety and fast-waning immunity to reinfect people from the previous year we will still have SOME level of resistance making it far less of a concern. It would likely be considered a new strain of the common cold... and we don't get vaccinated for that every year.

 

[destrekor]

Depends. Do people still need yearly vaccinations for the last SARS Coronavirus? No, because it was completely stopped. There's a good chance that this one can be completely stopped too if everyone gets their immunity fast enough, before it has the chance to become varied enough to escape existing immunity and becomes endemic.

IOW, it may burn itself out before it changes enough to reinfect people with existing immunity. Heck, even if it does change and become endemic with enough ever-changing variety and fast-waning immunity to reinfect people from the previous year we will still have SOME level of resistance making it far less of a concern. It would likely be considered a new strain of the common cold... and we don't get vaccinated for that every year.

SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV were both terrible at spreading though, and too effective in producing severe symptoms. Thankfully they never mutated into something more efficient at spreading ... yet now we are dealing with a similar enough virus that IS efficient at spreading, and looks to be getting better at that. What happens if this one mutates an ability to be just as commonly severe as the first two pandemic-level variants?

And you bet your bottom dollar we'd be able to get vaccines for "common cold" viruses if they could. But the problem is, either they all mutate enough, or the body doesn't build up a significant enough lasting immunity. I believe the latter is a chief reason the endemic human coronaviruses stick around. The other issue is that there are just so many viruses that can be responsible for the appearance of the common cold symptoms.

Common cold viruses are still responsible for a significant economic drain. Let's not forget that just because we call these common cold viruses, doesn't mean that they don't carry risk of greater infection. Just about any virus can also cause encephalitis, or even induce GBS and other autoimmune syndromes. Many can also cause bronchitis or pneumonia, or sinus infections. Each and every one of those, while generally mild, can lead to even further risk of severe illness and even death.

I suspect it's just not feasible, because it would be surely profitable to pump out annual boosters for protection against common cold viruses. Now if we are talking bacteria and developing new antibiotics, pharma is less inclined there because antibiotics don't sell for much, and they become generics in time and thus don't offer lucrative reoccurring revenue.

 

[Ichinisan]

The problem for influenza is two fold: a wide variety of circulating strains and a vaccine that presents the immune system with a viral region undergoing moderately frequent mutation (mainly due to the lack of proofreading in the influenza polymerase). The latter issue means that you don't really get broad immunity to all influenzas with a single vaccine. Thus, we get an influenza vaccine yearly based on the strains predicted to be prevalent for the upcoming season.

From what I've seen to date, these influenza issues are not an issue with the coronavirus vaccine. The coronavirus polymerase, which is responsible for copying its genetic material, has proofreading, which substantially reduces its mutation frequency. And when you get vaccinated, your body makes a number of different antibodies against the target, so a single mutation in the spike protein will probably be ineffective at giving the virus some immune-escape capabilities.

So really, the only issue is 'how long will immunity last', and that will simply take time to figure that out.

Influenza can also reassort, ending up with new strains that combine advantageous traits of two completely different strains. A reassorted strain suddenly has far more significant change than a small cumulative mutation. It's far more likely to bypass existing immunity and vaccines.

I believe coronaviruses are not known to do that (at least not to the same degree).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.

LILLEY: Ontario's new lockdown measures will be like nothing we've seen before

The shutdown of construction sites and manufacturing plants, and imposing a curfew, are all options the Ontario government is considering.

torontosun.com

Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.

 

[Ichinisan]

Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.

LILLEY: Ontario's new lockdown measures will be like nothing we've seen before

The shutdown of construction sites and manufacturing plants, and imposing a curfew, are all options the Ontario government is considering.

torontosun.com

Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.

I can't imagine the logic of disconnecting people from electricity service during Canadian winter. I'm confused.

 

[brianmanahan]

I can't imagine the logic of disconnecting people from electricity service during Canadian winter. I'm confused.

they are hardy folk and don't need it to survive, only to amuse themselves during the endless winter

 

[sdifox]

Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.

LILLEY: Ontario's new lockdown measures will be like nothing we've seen before

The shutdown of construction sites and manufacturing plants, and imposing a curfew, are all options the Ontario government is considering.

torontosun.com

Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.

Err no one is shutting off hydro. Not even if you owe them money.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

they are hardy folk and don't need it to survive, only to amuse themselves during the endless winter

Yeah they just need back bacon and maple syrup to survive.
Shits gonna get real if those taps are turned off.
Now being serious, take care @Red Squirrel

 

[ch33zw1z]

I, too, don't understand the logic of turning off hydro. Seems like a Canadian fear factor

 

[CZroe]

Shutting off household power would be a sure-fire way to get people to ignore the lockdown and go out, undermining the purpose of the lockdown.

Maybe he means they might shut down power for non-essential businesses to ensure compliance.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Shutting off household power would be a sure-fire way to get people to ignore the lockdown and go out, undermining the purpose of the lockdown.

Maybe he means they will shut down power for non-essential businesses to ensure compliance.

Even that, in the Frozen North, can spell disaster. Wonder how many plumbers are making tons of cash to winterize unused facilities

 

[Red Squirrel]

I can't imagine the logic of disconnecting people from electricity service during Canadian winter. I'm confused.

I don't get it either, and it's just a rumour at this point, have not heard anything official. I wonder if they will do it at the start of curfew for a few hours as it would make it less tempting to go out given how dark it would be and higher chance of getting mugged.

 

[IronWing]

If they impose a curfew after dark, are we talking you stuck in your house until what mid-April?

 

[Svnla]

Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.

LILLEY: Ontario's new lockdown measures will be like nothing we've seen before

The shutdown of construction sites and manufacturing plants, and imposing a curfew, are all options the Ontario government is considering.

torontosun.com

Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.

Time for Red Squirrel to use his shovel and bucket for rest room duties. Who needs to watch Life Below Zero on TV while we have Red around....real life tv baby ..no script...

 

[sdifox]

I don't get it either, and it's just a rumour at this point, have not heard anything official. I wonder if they will do it at the start of curfew for a few hours as it would make it less tempting to go out given how dark it would be and higher chance of getting mugged.

Stop linstening to stupid rumours. No one is atuoid enough to do that, it would mean assuming all the liabilities associated with that action.

 

[sdifox]

Yeah they just need back bacon and maple syrup to survive.
Shits gonna get real if those taps are turned off.
Now being serious, take care @Red Squirrel

Hydro is electricity xd

 

[ch33zw1z]

Hydro is electricity xd

Shen's, it's hydroponic...nvm....

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Hydro is electricity xd

Exactly it is not back bacon or Maple Syrup.
Unless the dam is holding back a torrent of Maple.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Stop linstening to stupid rumours. No one is atuoid enough to do that, it would mean assuming all the liabilities associated with that action.

That's why I called it a rumour, not sure if it's true or not, and can't really find much info. Though if power happens to go out at night and there's a curfew then yeah, it probably won't be fixed until next day.