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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,915
1,362
126
No one knows how long it will last because a) the virus hasn't been around long enough to gauge very long-term immunity (current reports put immunity at about 8 months minimum for most) and b) the vaccine has not been used for a long enough time period to gauge. We don't even have proper evidence yet for whether the vaccines prevent asymptomatic disease.
Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.

Possibly never if it ends the pandemic.
Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,550
136
My wife got the Pfizer vaccine 3 weeks ago and was told she could get her 2nd shot today. Due to availability at the time, she drove 20 minutes away to a hospital in a neighboring city to get it for the first round.

She and some colleagues went this morning to a local vax center by the same group and asked for a booster. They were all turned away and told they were only allowed to give shots from the same lot. I suppose that's for the sake of liability or QC if there were some manufacturing snafu. Anyhow, she's going to wait until Monday to get it and will return to the original location. This is likely one of those logistics issues that we're seeing with the distribution. They give half the vaccines and have to wait 3-4 weeks to give the other half. That means they are sitting on 50% of vaccines in cold storage and waiting for people to come back to free up space. I understand there are up to 7 doses per vial, but there's still quite a bit of space required to store those. As distribution of the Pfizer vaccine moves forward, I'm guessing you'll either see them get lax with that policy or they'll move away from it entirely. They're going to accrue too many different lots/doses and deal with indexing them once they try to find the lot a particular recipient needs.
I've seen people posting pics of their vaccination cards detailing the shots were from different lots. I think it is more an issue of keeping track of where 2nd doses need to be and when for logistics purposes.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,997
2,464
126
Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.



Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.
The problem for influenza is two fold: a wide variety of circulating strains and a vaccine that presents the immune system with a viral region undergoing moderately frequent mutation (mainly due to the lack of proofreading in the influenza polymerase). The latter issue means that you don't really get broad immunity to all influenzas with a single vaccine. Thus, we get an influenza vaccine yearly based on the strains predicted to be prevalent for the upcoming season.

From what I've seen to date, these influenza issues are not an issue with the coronavirus vaccine. The coronavirus polymerase, which is responsible for copying its genetic material, has proofreading, which substantially reduces its mutation frequency. And when you get vaccinated, your body makes a number of different antibodies against the target, so a single mutation in the spike protein will probably be ineffective at giving the virus some immune-escape capabilities.

So really, the only issue is 'how long will immunity last', and that will simply take time to figure that out.
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,607
3,378
136
My FIL (89 yo) had Covid with mild symptoms and has now recovered (+14 days and negative test). The memory care facility he is in lost about 1/3 of their residents. I didn't post earlier because I just couldn't talk about it - 9 months of hardly seeing him (except on Zoom) made the possible loss too emotional. Per his will, we are only allowed to put him in hospice if he has a potentially fatal disease. Cannot imagine what it is like for those who go through this but lose their loved one. It's just horrible because we want someone to be with him everyday in these circumstances and can't.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,550
136
My FIL (89 yo) had Covid with mild symptoms and has now recovered (+14 days and negative test). The memory care facility he is in lost about 1/3 of their residents. I didn't post earlier because I just couldn't talk about it - 9 months of hardly seeing him (except on Zoom) made the possible loss too emotional. Per his will, we are only allowed to put him in hospice if he has a potentially fatal disease. Cannot imagine what it is like for those who go through this but lose their loved one. It's just horrible because we want someone to be with him everyday in these circumstances and can't.
n/m misread

This kind of thing has been my deepest fear for months.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,376
1,121
126
I've seen people posting pics of their vaccination cards detailing the shots were from different lots. I think it is more an issue of keeping track of where 2nd doses need to be and when for logistics purposes.
That's what my wife said. She thought it was lack of robustness in the local hospital system that's delivering the vaccine but they were told the lots had to match by the staff (which may have just been a stupid nurse).
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,187
845
126
Good reply.

The reason I asked because I could get vaccinated early because my gf is a RN and she could claim me as a spouse. I am planning to travel oversea by end of this year 2021 (hopefully) and if I get the vaccine "too soon", I may need to do it again because other countries may require a more "current/up to date" proof of vaccination in order to get in.



Would we have to do this vaccination like the flu from now on? That's how I understand it. Not just a one time deal and be done with it.
Depends. Do people still need yearly vaccinations for the last SARS Coronavirus? No, because it was completely stopped. There's a good chance that this one can be completely stopped too if everyone gets their immunity fast enough, before it has the chance to become varied enough to escape existing immunity and becomes endemic.

IOW, it may burn itself out before it changes enough to reinfect people with existing immunity. Heck, even if it does change and become endemic with enough ever-changing variety and fast-waning immunity to reinfect people from the previous year we will still have SOME level of resistance making it far less of a concern. It would likely be considered a new strain of the common cold... and we don't get vaccinated for that every year.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
356
126
Depends. Do people still need yearly vaccinations for the last SARS Coronavirus? No, because it was completely stopped. There's a good chance that this one can be completely stopped too if everyone gets their immunity fast enough, before it has the chance to become varied enough to escape existing immunity and becomes endemic.

IOW, it may burn itself out before it changes enough to reinfect people with existing immunity. Heck, even if it does change and become endemic with enough ever-changing variety and fast-waning immunity to reinfect people from the previous year we will still have SOME level of resistance making it far less of a concern. It would likely be considered a new strain of the common cold... and we don't get vaccinated for that every year.
SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV were both terrible at spreading though, and too effective in producing severe symptoms. Thankfully they never mutated into something more efficient at spreading ... yet now we are dealing with a similar enough virus that IS efficient at spreading, and looks to be getting better at that. What happens if this one mutates an ability to be just as commonly severe as the first two pandemic-level variants?

And you bet your bottom dollar we'd be able to get vaccines for "common cold" viruses if they could. But the problem is, either they all mutate enough, or the body doesn't build up a significant enough lasting immunity. I believe the latter is a chief reason the endemic human coronaviruses stick around. The other issue is that there are just so many viruses that can be responsible for the appearance of the common cold symptoms.

Common cold viruses are still responsible for a significant economic drain. Let's not forget that just because we call these common cold viruses, doesn't mean that they don't carry risk of greater infection. Just about any virus can also cause encephalitis, or even induce GBS and other autoimmune syndromes. Many can also cause bronchitis or pneumonia, or sinus infections. Each and every one of those, while generally mild, can lead to even further risk of severe illness and even death.

I suspect it's just not feasible, because it would be surely profitable to pump out annual boosters for protection against common cold viruses. Now if we are talking bacteria and developing new antibiotics, pharma is less inclined there because antibiotics don't sell for much, and they become generics in time and thus don't offer lucrative reoccurring revenue.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
The problem for influenza is two fold: a wide variety of circulating strains and a vaccine that presents the immune system with a viral region undergoing moderately frequent mutation (mainly due to the lack of proofreading in the influenza polymerase). The latter issue means that you don't really get broad immunity to all influenzas with a single vaccine. Thus, we get an influenza vaccine yearly based on the strains predicted to be prevalent for the upcoming season.

From what I've seen to date, these influenza issues are not an issue with the coronavirus vaccine. The coronavirus polymerase, which is responsible for copying its genetic material, has proofreading, which substantially reduces its mutation frequency. And when you get vaccinated, your body makes a number of different antibodies against the target, so a single mutation in the spike protein will probably be ineffective at giving the virus some immune-escape capabilities.

So really, the only issue is 'how long will immunity last', and that will simply take time to figure that out.
Influenza can also reassort, ending up with new strains that combine advantageous traits of two completely different strains. A reassorted strain suddenly has far more significant change than a small cumulative mutation. It's far more likely to bypass existing immunity and vaccines.

I believe coronaviruses are not known to do that (at least not to the same degree).
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
59,670
8,593
126
www.uovalor.com
Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.


Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.


Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.
I can't imagine the logic of disconnecting people from electricity service during Canadian winter. I'm confused.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
84,196
9,022
126
Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.


Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.

Err no one is shutting off hydro. Not even if you owe them money.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,187
845
126
Shutting off household power would be a sure-fire way to get people to ignore the lockdown and go out, undermining the purpose of the lockdown.

Maybe he means they might shut down power for non-essential businesses to ensure compliance.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
32,864
11,610
146
Shutting off household power would be a sure-fire way to get people to ignore the lockdown and go out, undermining the purpose of the lockdown.

Maybe he means they will shut down power for non-essential businesses to ensure compliance.
Even that, in the Frozen North, can spell disaster. Wonder how many plumbers are making tons of cash to winterize unused facilities
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
59,670
8,593
126
www.uovalor.com
I can't imagine the logic of disconnecting people from electricity service during Canadian winter. I'm confused.
I don't get it either, and it's just a rumour at this point, have not heard anything official. I wonder if they will do it at the start of curfew for a few hours as it would make it less tempting to go out given how dark it would be and higher chance of getting mugged.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
61,846
14,981
136
If they impose a curfew after dark, are we talking you stuck in your house until what mid-April?
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,915
1,362
126
Looks like we may have a serious lockdown coming our way.


Also heard a rumour they may even be shutting off hydro. Might be a good time to upgrade my solar setup. I need more batteries and a bigger inverter. I don't really want to spend that kind of money now though.
Time for Red Squirrel to use his shovel and bucket for rest room duties. Who needs to watch Life Below Zero on TV while we have Red around....real life tv baby ..no script... :D
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
84,196
9,022
126
I don't get it either, and it's just a rumour at this point, have not heard anything official. I wonder if they will do it at the start of curfew for a few hours as it would make it less tempting to go out given how dark it would be and higher chance of getting mugged.

Stop linstening to stupid rumours. No one is atuoid enough to do that, it would mean assuming all the liabilities associated with that action.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
59,670
8,593
126
www.uovalor.com
Stop linstening to stupid rumours. No one is atuoid enough to do that, it would mean assuming all the liabilities associated with that action.
That's why I called it a rumour, not sure if it's true or not, and can't really find much info. Though if power happens to go out at night and there's a curfew then yeah, it probably won't be fixed until next day.
 

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