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New Zen microarchitecture details

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Mar 10, 2006
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They are competing with Intel and nVidia now. They are just losing.

Seriously though, he is a marketing guy, what is he supposed to say? Dont bother waiting for our stuff, we arent really going to be competitive? It seems highly likely Zen will be much more competitive than what they have now, but "competitive" could mean a variety of things.
Someone gets it. Seriously what the heck else do you expect from a marketing guy?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,210
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So far, yes it has an integrated PMIC. It is pin compatible, but it uses a different layout for those pins. It also is the only processor that is required to have its own BIOS.

Also, have these;
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=7417913
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=7435018
For Bristol Ridge.

Supposedly, the Integrated PMIC appeared before for the Smach Z;
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/smachteam/smach-z-the-first-handheld-steam-machine/posts/1443186
Our current prototype is using GX-412HC SOC AMD Radeon (Quad-core, 7W TDP, CPU freq. 1.2/1.6GHz, GPU freq. 400MHz), but for the final SMACH Z we will mount a new unannounced chip of the same family but a lot much powerful (we can't give details on it has we have signed a NDA with AMD).
I assume it will be the TBD model for the G Family J Series [Prairie Falcon].

~2.4 GHz - 3.2 GHz for a dual-core CPU.
~266 MHz for 192 ALUs.
 
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The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
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So far, yes it has an integrated PMIC. It is pin compatible, but it uses a different layout for those pins. It also is the only processor that is required to have its own BIOS.

Also, have these;
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=7417913
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=7435018
For Bristol Ridge.

Supposedly, the Integrated PMIC appeared before for the Smach Z;
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/smachteam/smach-z-the-first-handheld-steam-machine/posts/1443186I assume it will be the TBD model for the G Family J Series [Prairie Falcon].
SMU has been present since Trinity, but it is significantly more advanced in Carrizo.

SMU has nothing to do with voltage regulation, like FIVR does.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Someone gets it. Seriously what the heck else do you expect from a marketing guy?
Do they say that about FX CPUs?

That they are going to compete on perf, power use and features, not just on price?

Obviously they are PR guys, so they should be saying that stuff all the time about their current CPUs...

And even if Lisa Su said it in a conference call, on track for greater than 40% IPC uplift vs Carrizo, people don't believe it anyway cos it's AMD saying it, right?
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
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I just hope these marketing people at AMD would keep their (big) mouths shut this time... Zen in the most overhyped product of the decade and the expectations many people have for it are already unrealisticly high.

AMD cannot afford a single unfounded statement such as "Zen matching Skylake in IPC" or "overclockers dream" (regarding Fiji). Statements like this make the whole company look as incompetent. ... unless they can actually deliver o_O

And regarding the Zen IPC statement, according to the newest information I've got it is:

"Up to 40% more IPC over Excavator core" instead of "40% more IPC over Excavator core" or "Excess 40% more IPC over Excavator core".
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
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Obviously they are PR guys, so they should be saying that stuff all the time about their current CPUs...

And even if Lisa Su said it in a conference call, on track for greater than 40% IPC uplift vs Carrizo, people don't believe it anyway cos it's AMD saying it, right?
Yup.

Go ask Randy "40%" Allen. Or JF "IPC Increases" AMD.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
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Do they say that about FX CPUs?

That they are going to compete on perf, power use and features, not just on price?

Obviously they are PR guys, so they should be saying that stuff all the time about their current CPUs...

And even if Lisa Su said it in a conference call, on track for greater than 40% IPC uplift vs Carrizo, people don't believe it anyway cos it's AMD saying it, right?
Su said no such thing. Read the investor slides. They are comparing Zen data center product to previous gen AMD data center product which was Piledriver based.
 

deasd

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
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Those who still complain about '40% IPC', you don't ever read analysis of Dresdenboy, the starter of this thread, right? If true this thread had better being closed.
 

HiroThreading

Member
Apr 25, 2016
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Those who still complain about '40% IPC', you don't ever read analysis of Dresdenboy, the starter of this thread, right? If true this thread had better being closed.
Speculation.

Again, can we please look at what happened or some of the claims that were being made prior to Bulldozer?

Dresdenboy has amazing technical competency and understanding of CPU microarchitectures, but like everyone else NOT part of the actual AMD Zen microarchitecture design team, he can only speculate on Zen's per core, per clock performance.

My concern with Zen's performance is that AMD has been extremely tight lipped. This is unusual if or when a company has an upcoming product that seems successful. For example, Intel previewed Conroe's performance at IDF 2006 (7 March 2006):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1963

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1966

Conroe was then launched sometime in July:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2045

Then again, Zen may end up being an RV770. But that kind of secrecy preceding a successful product launch is more of an exception than a rule...
 

Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
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citavia.blog.de
Yup.

Go ask Randy "40%" Allen. Or JF "IPC Increases" AMD.
Now my trust in the SEC of the United States of America has burst into a cloud of dust particles. ;)

How did they get datacenter design wins in an environment of powerful Intel SKUs with a strong roadmap, other's many core ARMs, etc.? They also said to compete on specifications. Would SME/SEV, pin compatible K12 server chips or the like fill this spot?

OK, a worst case speculation for same # of cores:
IPC avg.: XV +20%
avg. freq. @ iso power: +20%
For an avg of SPECCPU + AT benchmark suite (ST+MT)
 
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Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
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citavia.blog.de
Speculation.

Again, can we please look at what happened or some of the claims that were being made prior to Bulldozer?

Dresdenboy has amazing technical competency and understanding of CPU microarchitectures, but like everyone else NOT part of the actual AMD Zen microarchitecture design team, he can only speculate on Zen's per core, per clock performance.

My concern with Zen's performance is that AMD has been extremely tight lipped. This is unusual if or when a company has an upcoming product that seems successful. For example, Intel previewed Conroe's performance at IDF 2006 (7 March 2006):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1963

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1966

Conroe was then launched sometime in July:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2045

Then again, Zen may end up being an RV770. But that kind of secrecy preceding a successful product launch is more of an exception than a rule...
Thanks. :)

Well, any other discussion based on ex-AMD'ers or Macri's claims, being tight lipped, having a bad track record (most conservative and simplest prediction model: future == past, i.e. new management is as bad as the old one), is speculation, too. If it would be done with more in-depth analysis and not just at "Stammtisch" levels ;), it might lead to more accurate predictions.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
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AMD is SO far out from the release date of ZEN, why would VP Taylor being making such a release at this time?

Intel is ready to launch Broadwell E and I expect that Kabylake will appear before the end of the year.

Perhaps having briefings keeps AMD relevant?

Trouble is I keep reading the same press release, OVER and OVER!

I also agree with Stilt about the over hype. Good Lord!
 
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Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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AMD is SO far out from the release date of ZEN, why would VP Taylor being making such a release at this time?
5 months left, that s not i would call far out.

He knows the perfs and that they wont be much optimised in respect of what they have at hand currently, at this point they must be busy around the plateform more than for the CPU itself...

Other than this if AMD was completely silent the same nay sayers would use it as an excuse to throw exactly the same rethoric, that they are silent because bla bla.....
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
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5 months left, that s not i would call far out.

He knows the perfs and that they wont be much optimised in respect of what they have at hand currently, at this point they must be busy around the plateform more than for the CPU itself...

Other than this if AMD was completely silent the same nay sayers would use it as an excuse to throw exactly the same rethoric, that they are silent because bla bla.....
Damned if you do, damned if you dont. There is no winning for AMD.
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
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Damned if you do, damned if you dont. There is no winning for AMD.
Good point monstercameron.

I hope ZEN is a solid good chip. I want to build a new WC rig late this year or early next year and ZEN has my interest as something different.:cool:
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,027
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I just hope these marketing people at AMD would keep their (big) mouths shut this time... Zen in the most overhyped product of the decade and the expectations many people have for it are already unrealisticly high.
hardly. bulldozer had way more hype and way higher expectations than zen does.

frankly, the neg-hype about zen seems bigger than the hype.
 

Shehriazad

Senior member
Nov 3, 2014
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My only hope for Zen: Be able to beat Intels MEDIUM sector AND be priced competitively.

Try to eat market share from the middle and lower grounds....just as they are trying with Polaris in the GPU sector.

Many consumers do not require super high end i7s and GTX Titan XYZs. And if the 8thread chips (and maybe later on some 4thread chips) manage to beat i3 and i5 to a pulp AND have a similar price...then I'm a happy camper.


Personally I'm not positively or negatively hyped for that CPU....I just expect it to fit "right in the middle" and bring some fresh air...because right now there's really not much of a reason to look at AMD in any price category except for maybe the super cheap Quad Cores....since Intels Dual Cores without Hyperthreading will continue to have more and more trouble...as Dual Core tech is slowly falling out of favor.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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I hope that AMD and VIA fails hard and leaves the x86 market only to find Intel and NVIDIA increasing the prices and finally making PC elitist once at all. For the rest of people they will have ARM. Is good enough for them.
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,543
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Intel fans should hope that Zen is a solid offering from AMD, imo.
Well.. If not is better to stay in the cruel reality... They must be premium to get premium performance.

And forget smartphone with Intel chips. They will fail since there are not any OS that support it.. The only one who had chances was Windows Phone... Too bad that Intel and MS didn't thought well...
 

CentroX

Senior member
Apr 3, 2016
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Not sure if posted, but AMD has talked about zen again:


John Taylor: said:
Zen will compete with Intel on performance, power and specifications – not just price. [...] By the end of the year, AMD will have moved on, to both its Zen CPU core as well as the Polaris graphics architecture. We are far closer to Intel than ever before – you always need a number two to keep them honest.
http://www.itwire.com/it-industry-news/development/72853-amd-zen-will-favourably-compete-with-intel-skylake.html

sounds very promesing.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Labeling yourself as number two, and saying that you are far closer, doesn't actually sound promising to me, though.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Labeling yourself as number two, and saying that you are far closer, doesn't actually sound promising to me, though.
"We are far closer to Intel than ever before"
- That makes no sense. Pedantic that could mean they expect to surpass Intel but not with a margin as big as with K7/K8. Utter gibberish :).
 

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