New Political Forum

[Charles Kozierok]

blankslate, I wish I could answer your questions, but I have not myself been told what the processes will be.

I can only give you my personal opinions.

I would like the place to be reasonably relaxed. I don't want to moderate a church bridge club meeting -- I just want the discussions to be reasonable and not just annoying combinations of trolling, irrationality and insults.

There's going to be judgment calls involved, obviously.

In terms of the application process, Perknose will have to elaborate on that. I don't know who will be making the decisions, nor on what basis. The admins decided on requiring people to apply, that was not my idea.

Personally, I prefer the model where we give nearly everyone a chance to show they can be productive parts of the new board. Even people who have occasionally behaved badly in P&N when it was "no holds barred" could control themselves in a more regulated forum. Heck, I myself have made some comments in P&N that wouldn't be acceptable in the new place.

So I hope nearly everyone will be given a chance. The number of posters I can think of that I definitely would not want in the new place would be in the single digits.

 

[Newbian]

Personally, I prefer the model where we give nearly everyone a chance to show they can be productive parts of the new board. Even people who have occasionally behaved badly in P&N when it was "no holds barred" could control themselves in a more regulated forum. Heck, I myself have made some comments in P&N that wouldn't be acceptable in the new place.

So I hope nearly everyone will be given a chance. The number of posters I can think of that I definitely would not want in the new place would be in the single digits.

This needs to be looked at.

Screwing over people from previous issues when a new forum goes live is a bad way to handle things and deal with them when they break the rules there.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Well, again, it will be up to the admins to decide how the approval process works. I'm sure they'll let us know once they are ready.

 

[amdhunter]

2) Much will depend on how the people acted prior to and after being disciplined.
Some will not be allowed in because of their past behavior - no debate on that. Most moderators will concur on such decisions.

Ah that sucks. I guess there is no way for me to get in, even though I am trying to turn over a new leaf.

Dug my own grave I guess.

 

[JEDIYoda]

This needs to be looked at.

why?
not at all. People have recorded patterns of behavior. Some people will never ever learn...but others are capable of changing...

I believe thats why approval into the new forum is on a case by case basis....

 

[EagleKeeper]

Ah that sucks. I guess there is no way for me to get in, even though I am trying to turn over a new leaf.

Dug my own grave I guess.

If you feel that you dug your grave, decide if it has been filled in.
Do a honest eval of yourself and determine why the grave was dug.
Then decide if you can change yourself to the point that you may be considered a productive valuable member of the forum.

Essentially, turnover a new leaf and demonstrate that you deserve a chance.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This needs to be looked at.

Screwing over people from previous issues when a new forum goes live is a bad way to handle things and deal with them when they break the rules there.

As previously stated, case by case.

Some do not deserve it; as evidenced by their actions in this thread.

They do not believe that they should obey rules and act as adults being civil.

 

[EagleKeeper]

<snip>

The number of posters I can think of that I definitely would not want in the new place would be in the single digits.

I use hexidecimal when counting those posters. That way, I can keep my shoes on

 

[werepossum]

I use hexidecimal when counting those posters. That way, I can keep my shoes on

Dang, you got shoes? What are ya, some sort o' fancy boy?

 

[umbrella39]

I am very happy to hear about the change. It is very welcome I am sure. I freely admit having turned into the kind of poster I hate and that isn't something that happened overnight. It took some time to get this way as it will trying to change back. Going to see if I can behave myself in P&N for some time before I'd even contemplate applying as I am nowhere near close to worthy as it stands...

 

[EagleKeeper]

Dang, you got shoes? What are ya, some sort o' fancy boy?

Needed to keep my socks from getting full of the excrement that floats to the top at times in the fields

 

[EagleKeeper]

I am very happy to hear about the change. It is very welcome I am sure. I freely admit having turned into the kind of poster I hate and that isn't something that happened overnight. It took some time to get this way as it will trying to change back. Going to see if I can behave myself in P&N for some time before I'd even contemplate applying as I am nowhere near close to worthy as it stands...

Recommend you review comments made to amdhunter above

 

[werepossum]

Needed to keep my socks from getting full of the excrement that floats to the top at times in the fields

Socks? Shoes AND socks?

 

[JEDIYoda]

I for one think we should all pitch in a purchase both mods a rubberized set of chest high waders.........

 

[highland145]

Hopefully it can be accomplished.

Would be a pain as a moderator to be cross-checking posts to some approved lists of posters. Although I don't see why anybody would risk a vacation just to get probably 1 post in, but you never know.

I lurked since ~2000 in hot deals, etc. A closed P/N wouldn't inspire me to join.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Socks? Shoes AND socks?

Socks needed for tap dancing. Lighter on your feet.

 

[werepossum]

Socks needed for tap dancing. Lighter on your feet.

See, that explains it. I was raised in a cult - a strange group of people who call themselves Baptists and believe that if you hold someone under water they'll come around to your way of thinking - and we don't dance. It's like speaking to someone in the liquor store, it just isn't done.

 

[EagleKeeper]

See, that explains it. I was raised in a cult - a strange group of people who call themselves Baptists and believe that if you hold someone under water they'll come around to your way of thinking - and we don't dance. It's like speaking to someone in the liquor store, it just isn't done.

Great entertainment.

The dance.



Best thing is when you get a chance to dance with the devil.

Charles is new. He does not realize who his partner is. :twisted:

 

[werepossum]

Great entertainment.

The dance.



Best thing is when you get a chance to dance with the devil.

Charles is new. He does not realize who his partner is. :twisted:

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I'm only new *here*. For four years I ran a politics / current events forum that made P&N look like afternoon tea at Buckingham Palace.

 

[spittledip]

I really don't have the time to post much, so I cannot guarantee the time needed to construct the thoughtful responses required to join the new sub-forum. Can there be read only access to the forum so members can just read, or is that too much trouble?

 

[Abraxas]

I really don't have the time to post much, so I cannot guarantee the time needed to construct the thoughtful responses required to join the new sub-forum. Can there be read only access to the forum so members can just read, or is that too much trouble?

I don't see any particular reason you couldn't apply for access and then simply not post except when you feel you have time to do so adequately. That said, I think it is important for the success of the forum that it be publicly visible. I don't think it will get very far in the long run if members only know it is there through an announcement people don't read and passing comments in the forum.

I honestly think it unfortunate that such a closed model was chosen for the forum, applying for admissions and blocking it off from even viewing by nonmembers. Firstly, especially with the one time only ever admissions requests, that gives people no incentive to improve if they are turned down. Secondly, I think a lot of the worst members in P&N are as bad as they are in large part because of the environment. For a long, long time P&N has been a bloodbath, an essentially unmoderated free for all, and in that environment it is easy to become bitter, disenfranchised, and jaded from being repeatedly subject to abuse and flames. I can think of a couple members of the forum who I have seen in the past be very intelligent, very insightful, who now exist seemingly only to troll and I think they could, in better circumstances be as they were. I really think the superior approach is to open this forum to all and simply break out the nailbat when they get out of line. Either they will conform to the rules or they will be ejected from the forum. If they feel they can't make it there, they don't have to post there but I don't agree with not even giving them the ability to try.

I've gotten the full worth of the price of admission and then some through what time I've spent here and I am glad that the new forum idea has been embraced, but I hope the idea is still open to some revision before everything is set in stone.

 

[Greenman]

I don't see any particular reason you couldn't apply for access and then simply not post except when you feel you have time to do so adequately. That said, I think it is important for the success of the forum that it be publicly visible. I don't think it will get very far in the long run if members only know it is there through an announcement people don't read and passing comments in the forum.

I honestly think it unfortunate that such a closed model was chosen for the forum, applying for admissions and blocking it off from even viewing by nonmembers. Firstly, especially with the one time only ever admissions requests, that gives people no incentive to improve if they are turned down. Secondly, I think a lot of the worst members in P&N are as bad as they are in large part because of the environment. For a long, long time P&N has been a bloodbath, an essentially unmoderated free for all, and in that environment it is easy to become bitter, disenfranchised, and jaded from being repeatedly subject to abuse and flames. I can think of a couple members of the forum who I have seen in the past be very intelligent, very insightful, who now exist seemingly only to troll and I think they could, in better circumstances be as they were. I really think the superior approach is to open this forum to all and simply break out the nailbat when they get out of line. Either they will conform to the rules or they will be ejected from the forum. If they feel they can't make it there, they don't have to post there but I don't agree with not even giving them the ability to try.

I've gotten the full worth of the price of admission and then some through what time I've spent here and I am glad that the new forum idea has been embraced, but I hope the idea is still open to some revision before everything is set in stone.

I think the idea is to have a forum for real discussion, and P&N for partisan hackery. I'm not a big fan of the application idea, it's going to be a point of contention, and rightfully so. Everyone should be handed a rope and shown where the trees are, if they want to hang themselves, it's their decision.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think the idea is to have a forum for real discussion, and P&N for partisan hackery. I'm not a big fan of the application idea, it's going to be a point of contention, and rightfully so. Everyone should be handed a rope and shown where the trees are, if they want to hang themselves, it's their decision.

way too much work involved....the application only makes a whole lot of sense.
Also who cares about contention??
They make the rules we follow them...it`s not as if we actually own the forums!

It`s very obvious who will not follow the rules based on posting history.....

 

[Charles Kozierok]

That said, I think it is important for the success of the forum that it be publicly visible. I don't think it will get very far in the long run if members only know it is there through an announcement people don't read and passing comments in the forum.

I think that will be the case. Don't judge based on how things are now.. they are still working on the new forum to ensure the permissions are set properly and there are no problems.

I honestly think it unfortunate that such a closed model was chosen for the forum, applying for admissions and blocking it off from even viewing by nonmembers. Firstly, especially with the one time only ever admissions requests, that gives people no incentive to improve if they are turned down. Secondly, I think a lot of the worst members in P&N are as bad as they are in large part because of the environment. For a long, long time P&N has been a bloodbath, an essentially unmoderated free for all, and in that environment it is easy to become bitter, disenfranchised, and jaded from being repeatedly subject to abuse and flames. I can think of a couple members of the forum who I have seen in the past be very intelligent, very insightful, who now exist seemingly only to troll and I think they could, in better circumstances be as they were. I really think the superior approach is to open this forum to all and simply break out the nailbat when they get out of line. Either they will conform to the rules or they will be ejected from the forum. If they feel they can't make it there, they don't have to post there but I don't agree with not even giving them the ability to try.

I generally tend to agree, but the admins run the place and they have the final say. Many of them have been here for over a decade and have a better understanding of what running the place is like than you or I do, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt on this.

The rules of admission (or non-admission) aren't necessarily carved in stone, either. I am sure that if the initial model is not working, for whatever reason, it will be adjusted.